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  1. #221
    Deleted
    I'm going to pull all the artifact traits (If possible) into the increased Fallen Crusader buff. It's a lot of increased strength. On a buff with between 75-90% uptime.
    Last edited by mmoc3c02903358; 2016-06-16 at 07:16 PM.

  2. #222
    Are any of the other first tier talents even competitive with all will serve? Clinkz does a lot of damage by himself, almost always outdamaging virulent plague itself.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by kary View Post
    Are any of the other first tier talents even competitive with all will serve? Clinkz does a lot of damage by himself, almost always outdamaging virulent plague itself.
    You sir are a genius. Clinkz is the name of the new pet. I love it.

  4. #224
    Deleted
    This will be my choices.

    http://imgur.com/a/BfPy4

    Also In the end, with 6 points in it. Fallen Crusader increases the str bonus by 42%.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Skullbound View Post
    You sir are a genius. Clinkz is the name of the new pet. I love it.
    Wait, people really didn't think of DotA the second they saw the skeleton archer? lmao.

  6. #226
    Deleted
    The minimum points to unlock all Golden dragons & 1 pointers (except the enhanced DG - Gravitaional pull) is 24 points.
    Assuming that Scourge of world>Double Doom>Shambler in both points and the points in the routes there is my pov 2 possibilities:

    Eternal Agony 3/3
    The Darkest Crusader 3/3
    Scoure of worlds 1/1
    Portal to the underworld 1/1
    Scourge the unbeliever 3/3
    Armies of the dammned 1/1
    Plaguebearer 3/3
    Deadly durability 3/3
    Double doom 1/1
    Unholy endurance 3/3
    The shambler 1/1

    OR

    Rotten touch 3/3
    Runic tattoes 3/3
    Scourge of worlds 1/1
    Portal to the underworld 1/1
    Plaguebearer 3/3
    Armies of the dammned 1/1
    Deadly durability 3/3
    Double doom 1/1
    Scourge the unbeliever 3/3
    Unholy endurance 3/3
    The shambler 1/1

    I like the first option the best in terms of the early talents, but as you achieve the 2. golden dragon faster with the second method (17 points vs 20), it might be the best. At 24 points though, the first option will likely be better.

    You get the first golden dragon while lvling, the second after a while @110 (not that long) and third will take considerable longer, maybe a few weeks. Assuming you take the 2. route, you afterwards fill the remaining talents, prioritizing the better ones (most likely the early ones you skipped).

    Where Gravitational can prob be pushes forward based on preference and/or a fight favors it for the utility.
    Last edited by mmoc909dfd26c8; 2016-06-16 at 10:12 PM.

  7. #227
    Runic Tattoos is going to limit our choices. Those 3 points are absolutely essential asap. Personally, I think our golden traits arent even our strongest bonuses. Im fairly sure the 3 strongest are:

    Runic Tattoos
    Darkest Crusade (because FC is really strong baseline now)
    Scourge the Unbeliever (10% chance SS grants a free rune. nice bonus for ST, huge for DnD cleave)

    I would not be shocked if our first 14 points go like this:

    http://legion.wowhead.com/artifact-c...QgDEJA0XwNTUBA
    Last edited by Rothulean1; 2016-06-17 at 01:39 AM.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothulean1 View Post
    Runic Tattoos is going to limit our choices. Those 3 points are absolutely essential asap. Personally, I think our golden traits arent even our strongest bonuses. Im fairly sure the 3 strongest are:

    Runic Tattoos
    Darkest Crusade (because FC is really strong baseline now)
    Scourge the Unbeliever (10% chance SS grants a free rune. nice bonus for ST, huge for DnD cleave)

    I would not be shocked if our first 14 points go like this:

    http://legion.wowhead.com/artifact-c...QgDEJA0XwNTUBA
    Actually this one is better: http://legion.wowhead.com/artifact-c...QkDEKA0XwNTUBA the 3/3 in The Darkest Crusade is way better than 3/3 in Rotten Touch, then go into Portal to the Underworld, Armies of the Dammed, then into either Plaguebearer or Unholy Endurance to work towards the next golden trait

    This is how I'm going and is a very strong start http://legion.wowhead.com/artifact-c...CQMQoDRfA1NQEA


    Edit:Exothermic Core, Breath of Dusk, and Phial of Fel Blood are our BiS relics
    Last edited by Gemini Soul; 2016-06-17 at 02:09 AM.

  9. #229
    Yep, those are both probably the best way to go. The other 2 golden traits are just surrounded by so many garbage abilities.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothulean1 View Post
    Yep, those are both probably the best way to go. The other 2 golden traits are just surrounded by so many garbage abilities.
    I will most likely be going after Double Doom first because Deadly Durability is better than Unholy Endurance

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Khatix View Post
    I will most likely be going after Double Doom first because Deadly Durability is better than Unholy Endurance
    That's pretty up to debate, I mean Unholy Endurance is always working, while Deadly Durability is reliant on the duration of the CD's being up/used.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxweii View Post
    That's pretty up to debate, I mean Unholy Endurance is always working, while Deadly Durability is reliant on the duration of the CD's being up/used.
    Unholy Endurance only works on AoE, which both AMS/IBF can be used for as well for other things. Deadly Durability is even a DPS increase where AMS is concerned.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Khatix View Post
    Unholy Endurance only works on AoE, which both AMS/IBF can be used for as well for other things. Deadly Durability is even a DPS increase where AMS is concerned.
    Yes and most of the damage you take in raid encounters is unavoidable aoe damage, it will always be useful. However IBF is on a 3 minute CD, and increased to 22% damage reduction, for 8 seconds. AMS is a slight negligible amount of dps (increase from the trait) but is also on a 1 minute CD and can't have it's CD reduced anymore. A free 15% passive avoidance is just plain better.

    Especially considering that Corpse Shield will be our go to DRC for big burst on a 1 min CD, the IBF/AMS trait is just rather lackluster.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxweii View Post
    Yes and most of the damage you take in raid encounters is unavoidable aoe damage, it will always be useful. However IBF is on a 3 minute CD, and increased to 22% damage reduction, for 8 seconds. AMS is a slight negligible amount of dps (increase from the trait) but is also on a 1 minute CD and can't have it's CD reduced anymore. A free 15% passive avoidance is just plain better.

    Especially considering that Corpse Shield will be our go to DRC for big burst on a 1 min CD, the IBF/AMS trait is just rather lackluster.
    Not every fight has unavoidable AoE for the big ones we use personal/raid CD's anyways, while Deadly Durability buffs IBF/AMS which gets used a lot more in all forms of combat against all damage types VS Unholy Endurance which only works on a small portion of the damage types and only useful in a raid encounter with unavoidable AoE damage that you use AMS/IBF/raid cds on anyways to help with which gets healed up from AoE heals anyways.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Khatix View Post
    Not every fight has unavoidable AoE for the big ones we use personal/raid CD's anyways, while Deadly Durability buffs IBF/AMS which gets used a lot more in all forms of combat against all damage types VS Unholy Endurance which only works on a small portion of the damage types and only useful in a raid encounter with unavoidable AoE damage that you use AMS/IBF/raid cds on anyways to help with which gets healed up from AoE heals anyways.
    Not all fights have unavoidable aoe damage? Really then what's a raid healer even healing? The only fight in HFC you can kinda say doesn't have unavoidable aoe damage is the first boss, every single other boss has damage that you just cannot avoid. So what if the raid uses cooldowns to mitigate the damage, if an individual takes a passive amount of less damage than others then they generally require less healing.
    We are going to be healed up no matter what, saying that aoe heals will handle it means nothing. If you don't get healed, you die, and wipe.

    I mean let's put it this way. IBF is a 8 second duration and then you have to wait 2:52 to be able to use it again, that of which you likely won't be using it right off CD because that's not it's use. AMS we use more frequently but requires magic damage to be present and lasts 5 seconds, with 0:55 where it can't do anything.
    You REALLY think that 15% avoidance in either 55 seconds of time or 2:52 of time won't add up to more damage reduction that that small amount the CD's do? Really?

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxweii View Post
    Not all fights have unavoidable aoe damage? Really then what's a raid healer even healing? The only fight in HFC you can kinda say doesn't have unavoidable aoe damage is the first boss, every single other boss has damage that you just cannot avoid. So what if the raid uses cooldowns to mitigate the damage, if an individual takes a passive amount of less damage than others then they generally require less healing.
    We are going to be healed up no matter what, saying that aoe heals will handle it means nothing. If you don't get healed, you die, and wipe.

    I mean let's put it this way. IBF is a 8 second duration and then you have to wait 2:52 to be able to use it again, that of which you likely won't be using it right off CD because that's not it's use. AMS we use more frequently but requires magic damage to be present and lasts 5 seconds, with 0:55 where it can't do anything.
    You REALLY think that 15% avoidance in either 55 seconds of time or 2:52 of time won't add up to more damage reduction that that small amount the CD's do? Really?
    Only with constant AoE damage would it be better and there are not that many like that. We went all this time with out a passive 15% AoE reduction, not all specs are getting this so its not that big of a deal. Your going to get healed up no matter what taking 15% less AoE damage that you didn't CD or was raid CD while healers are AoE healing only increases their over healing on you and if that 15% AoE reduction on a single DPS is the difference between a wipe and a kill then either the encounter or your raid team has a major problem, however buffing personal DRCD is more valuable because they cover a wider variety of scenarios and when used are even better with Deadly Durability. There is a difference between unavoidable damage which AMS/IBF works on and unavoidable AoE damage which also AMS/IBF works on.

    Deadly Durability covers all facets of reducible damage by buffing IBF/AMS, Unholy Endurance only covers AoE damage it is a niche trait. Point for point ArtPow spent on Deadly Durability will yield higher returns than Unholy Endurance in all forms of combat if it be solo, 5 man heroic/mythic/CM or raids EXCEPT vs steady constant AoE damage which not every fight has from solo thru mythic raid.
    Last edited by Gemini Soul; 2016-06-17 at 06:48 AM.

  17. #237
    Say what you want, it will reduce more damage than marginal power increases on IBF/AMS. I mean, it makes IBF a whopping 22% damage reduction, 2% more damage reduction for 8 seconds. Most fights have periods of heavy heavy aoe damage, and just because we're in a situation right now where most guilds outgear the content they are in so that aoe damage like that is negligible, doesn't mean that taking less damage isn't worth it. Since hp pools are high lets simplify it to 100k. The aoe ability incoming does 50k every second, meaning the raid needs heavy healing and mitigation to survive or people will putter out, basically it's Gorefiends second phase, which has ramping up damage and lasts a minute. Use IBF, 8 seconds where each tick does 11k less to you each tick, 88k damage mitigated. AMS can absorb up to 44% your max HP, so 44k damage. Lasts for 2 seconds before it expires. You now have 50 seconds left where you don't have these CD's, that's where the avoidance comes into play. Constant 7.5k damage reduction, for 50 seconds, adding up to 375k damage mitigated (obviously more if you add in AMS/IBF uptimes but for ease of math it's being exempted).

    Nothing changes about IBF and AMS. IBF is our big, usually physical, damage mitigation tool for raids, which will likely more or less be saved for when we use Corpse Shield and thus isn't there for heavy aoe periods. AMS is for magical damage, which usually comes in the form of unavoidable raidwide aoe, our use on it won't change, though this could also be coupled with Corpse Shield depending on the fight. AMS actually will be used a lot less than in live because we can't reduce it's CD anymore, which will certainly affect our survivability.

    For sustained damage, avoidance plain wins. Due to it always being active, just passively reducing the aoe damage we take, it's the most efficient form of damage mitigation as it takes nothing away from us and leaves us with tools to use when we ACTUALLY need them. IBF and AMS are more for burst damage than anything, always have been.

    Obviously I have been talking about raids this whole time, dungeons and solo content have things that matter a lot more than this, so tossing that in as points makes no sense when I was solely talking about it's use in raids.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Come to think of it that's overselling it. All that the trait adds is 2% more on IBF damage reduction and 4% more absorption on AMS. That's all that should even be factored in not the whole value.

  18. #238
    Deleted
    I've heard the All Will Serve pet can get really annoying, not being controllable and ninjapulling. Any chance that the talent will be replaced, or a second pet bar added for the skeleton?

  19. #239
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Argyn View Post
    I've heard the All Will Serve pet can get really annoying, not being controllable and ninjapulling. Any chance that the talent will be replaced, or a second pet bar added for the skeleton?
    It generally follows the same commands as those you issue for the primary pet. The problem is it attacks from range, so it will stay further back and can thus aggro patrols, it also has an aoe attack, so it can pull unintended packs via that, and due to its currently high damage, it has a tendency to pull aggro from you.

    Don't expect it to be replaced, especially not in the tuning stage. A second pet bar might work, as it would allow for better management of it, especially separate from the normal pet.

    Currently though, it does so much damage, nothing else on the tier really competes against it. It's easily 20-25% of your damage, whereas the regular pet is about 5-10%, maybe 12% if it gets a good crit streak.

  20. #240
    What is supposed to be the best lvl 90 talent? I've been running Infected Claws on the PRT and I almost only need to FS on target switch or in preparation of a burst phase, greatly devaluing Rotten Touch. Khatix's proposed start seems to me the best one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khatix View Post
    This is how I'm going and is a very strong start http://legion.wowhead.com/artifact-c...CQMQoDRfA1NQEA

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