Make WoW F2P to save Raiding

[Fleckens]

The game already is free to play for most people that raid anyway due to the tokens.

[Jyggalag]

Why do you care so much, I wonder? People who go to lfr, won't join real raiding anyways. If only, it should be reverted to the state it was in MoP, where LFR was hard and had real tier and trinkets, instead of an abomination they made in WoD. I am a raider and always was, but I admit I had fun sometimes playing alts in MoP's lfr with friends. WoD's lfr - I never sticked my feet there, neither did my friends, because it is more fun to watch paint dry then to participate in this snorefest which gives no gear.

I take part in LFR conversations, rather than "care" personally because I've been playing for 10 years and I've never seen the community in as poor a state as it is now. Pro LFR players are quick to dismiss LFR as a contributing factor to the decay of the MMO experience, where player interaction is what this game's foundation was built on.

I honestly wouldn't give a shit about LFR being a thing if I didn't have to step foot in it. You'll be quick to point out that I don't "have to" but from my personal experience I've felt I had to multiple times. For every alt I've wanted to gear outside of guild raids i've had to "link ring" as per the description of the group. Where do you get your ring from exactly if it's gating you from these groups? Yup, LFR.

[Relapses]

Yes it will be interesting to see how it evolves to cover new and interesting viewpoints.

I already won Bingo! from just the first page. A new record!

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It just never ends. Can't wait to see Glorious Leader and his alter ego Rex in here agreeing with themselves.. err.. each other..

[Foj]

I already won Bingo! from just the first page. A new record!

There's a lot of creativity and innovation taking place in the discourse here.

[HumbleDuck]

He's basically saying that at present the player base is made of mostly people with money but no time and are being catered to in the form of LFR.
He's suggested that the game model be changed to accommodate players with time and no money, effectively opening the door to more players who would raid higher at a difficulty than LFR because the money wouldn't be a limiting factor.
This would end the argument that "we should get to kill Archimonde and get tier and the same cosmetic rewards as mythic raiders because we pay the same as everyone else even though we can only play for 5 minutes per week", allowing the game to remove itself from LFR entirely.

This analogy can be summarised to: blizzard should let go of people with money to attract people with no money.
Why is that?

[Deleted]

No thanks. I am fine with LFR existing, and I don't want WoW to go completely F2P.

This analogy can be summarised to: blizzard should let go of people with money to attract people with no money.
Why is that?

Because like it is now, those filthy LFR players can get gear and see the content as well, which causes OP to be less special. Unacceptable. /s

[Deleted]

This is not an argument though and never was. This is pure stupidity of a free2play generation which thinks game companies has to lick their asses for their dirty 5$, which is ridiculous. Everyone gets equal access to content for their sub fee. And that's it.

So true. It's a shame the casuals feel entitled to mythic gear, and the hardcore think they are kings.

[Jyggalag]

This analogy can be summarised to: blizzard should let go of people with money to attract people with no money.
Why is that?

Don't ask me, I'm not saying they should.

[Halobob87]

F2P system is just a cancer. Every single F2P games sucks in a way or another.

[Deleted]

One thing - Raiding needs no saving from anything what so ever.

[Deleted]

I was kicked from my guild last night, my raiding t-shirt wasn't dry from the washing line. I asked for them to wait whilst I could try and dry t. They said "NO NO YOU JOKE! YOU NO RAIDER! YOU ARE JOKE!" I said "but please! please! It's my special raiding t-shirt! You will see! You will see! it makes me play better!"

I was kicked

Those are the players that are rank 2nd on their server but are only rank world 800. They don't understand the importance of wearing the proper clothing for raiding! World first guilds had raiding hats and slippers! Those guilds don't understand the importance!

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

raiding isnt exactly dead, by all rights it should be after a year but people are still doing it lol

[Pull My Finger]

I take part in LFR conversations, rather than "care" personally because I've been playing for 10 years and I've never seen the community in as poor a state as it is now. Pro LFR players are quick to dismiss LFR as a contributing factor to the decay of the MMO experience, where player interaction is what this game's foundation was built on.

Well see, I don't give a damn about LFR at all - but you don't make any sense.

First off: the empty catchphrase - player interaction, game's foundation blah blah. It's just something you say because to you it seems like something that "sounds right". Is there any real argument behind that?

How is LFR not "player interaction"? It strikes me as unbelievably silly and presumptous that you would make a sweeping judgement on what is to be viewed as the "correct", "suffiecient" or "worthy" kind of interaction. It's only player interaction if it's you, what you think, like and say and how you and your social sphere do it, it would seem.

Further: what do you think you know about people who do LFR anyway? What makes you think that you have an idea of what other kinds of content these players do, or how much and in which way or scope they interact with other players? What do you really know about all these people out there? WoW is an incredibly big game that attracts an incredible variety of personalities and all of these people have individual interests and habits.

LFR is ONE of many things a player can do in this game. How exactly does participating in this one type of thing that the game offers equate to completely avoiding "the game's foundation"? It's just a type of content that some people do. Because they can, because it's there, maybe even because they like it, and also very much because that's what Blizzard has steered their game time to. And there's all kinds of valid reasons why people wouldn't be interested in "proper" raiding. But that's already problem in your mind, which is ridiculous.

What I'm getting at: you don't know shit. But you're acting as if you were in the position to pass moral judgement on a whole imaginary group of people that you lump all sorts of individuals in. That's incredibly immature and silly. You're talking big about things you don't care to understand the slightest.

I honestly wouldn't give a shit about LFR being a thing if I didn't have to step foot in it. You'll be quick to point out that I don't "have to" but from my personal experience I've felt I had to multiple times. For every alt I've wanted to gear outside of guild raids i've had to "link ring" as per the description of the group. Where do you get your ring from exactly if it's gating you from these groups? Yup, LFR.

Nonsensical argument. Take it up with your raid leader, or whatever people you have expectations imposed upon you. How is that any relevant to all the other people you're blaming for your personal little plight?

And what does that have to do with LFR? It's a matter of one certain quest chain that's been designed in a particular way. Complete non-argument. Immature, selfish and mistaken thinking, as usual from this "camp".

[Lochton]

It's all about entitlement.

Only a minority has the time/will to commit to a raiding schedule. However, everyone still has to pay the same sub fee. I think Blizzard feels this is unfair: those who don't raid may then feel entitled to "see all the content", since they payed for it.

If WoW were Free2Play, there would be no more reason for LFR to exist.

Demanding a game to become F2P is also an entitlement issue. Really, LFR has no problem existing, people just keep making it a problem because LFR gets some gear that might resemble but doesn't.

And no, F2P won't save raiding at all.. Not even the game, I believe.

[Sencha]

Only a minority has the time/will to commit to a raiding schedule.

It's a group activity. So you NEED a schedule, like every group activity in real life. If you're in a football team, you have weekly training sessions. Why is it not acceptable to have a schedule for a video game?

If you don't have "time" for a group activity, just find things to do solo.

[DanThePaladin]

Hell to the no!

[Jyggalag]

Well see, I don't give a damn about LFR at all - but you don't make any sense.

First off: the empty catchphrase - player interaction, game's foundation blah blah. It's just something you say because to you it seems like something that "sounds right". Is there any real argument behind that?

How is LFR not "player interaction"? It strikes me as unbelievably silly and presumptous that you would make a sweeping judgement on what is to be viewed as the "correct", "suffiecient" or "worthy" kind of interaction. It's only player interaction if it's you, what you think, like and say and how you and your social sphere do it, it would seem.

Further: what do you think you know about people who do LFR anyway? What makes you think that you have an idea of what other kinds of content these players do, or how much and in which way or scope they interact with other players? What do you really know about all these people out there? WoW is an incredibly big game that attracts an incredible variety of personalities and all of these people have individual interests and habits.

LFR is ONE of many things a player can do in this game. How exactly does participating in this one type of thing that the game offers equate to completely avoiding "the game's foundation"? It's just a type of content that some people do. Because they can, because it's there, maybe even because they like it, and also very much because that's what Blizzard has steered their game time to. And there's all kinds of valid reasons why people wouldn't be interested in "proper" raiding. But that's already problem in your mind, which is ridiculous.

What I'm getting at: you don't know shit. But you're acting as if you were in the position to pass moral judgement on a whole imaginary group of people that you lump all sorts of individuals in. That's incredibly immature and silly. You're talking big about things you don't care to understand the slightest.

Nonsensical argument. Take it up with your raid leader, or whatever people you have expectations imposed upon you. How is that any relevant to all the other people you're blaming for your personal little plight?

And what does that have to do with LFR? It's a matter of one certain quest chain that's been designed in a particular way. Complete non-argument. Immature, selfish and mistaken thinking, as usual from this "camp".

TL;DR "I'm salty as fuck and haven't had my snickers bar today. How dare anyone have an opinion in contrast to mine, let alone voice it on this public online discussion forum in a thread that's completely relevant! I'll throw in some derogatory wording on top of it, to really hit him where it hurts."

WoW is an incredibly big game that attracts an incredible variety of personalities and all of these people have individual interests and habits.

Claims to know that difference in opinions exist, yet refute any that differ from his own. Immature, selfish and mistaken thinking.

If you'd actually taken the time to read my post you'd see that I'm not advocating the removal of LFR or anything about it. I've never implied anything about the level of skill of someone who chooses to solely do LFR. I have friends who cleared LK HC world top 500 who come on to do it because they enjoy it.
I participate in LFR to maximise the efficiency in which I can play the game the way I want to play it. My arguement is against the welfare legendary system that's tied to it. When Blizzard sever this tie completely, I will be more than happy to never engage in an LFR discussion again.
If 6 months in to the last tier of Legion i decide to level my mage and want to get my artifact maxed as quickly as possible in order to start enjoying the game in the way that I do, I find out I've to do 3 months of LFR before i'll get accepted to a heroic pug, you can be sure i'm not going to be a fan of the system.

[TyrianFC]

If people cant commit to a subscription, how do you expect them to committ to raiding?

[Renedric]

Okay? Care to elaborate why?

Because that 15 dollars a month is just an excuse, still won't change people's minds to see all content. This has to be the laziest and most ineffective solution I've come across lol