[Real Talk] Possible Future Playable Races.

[Syegfryed]

There is no 'need' to add any race to either faction. But the reason you do it is to add content and interesting lore...

there is a need to ogres going from the horde, since many years, the crowd is screaming for they, this need to happens first the sub race fetish

[Obelisk Kai]

I can see that the OP's hope that this would NOT degenerate into a High Elf thread was ultimately in vain and that's sad. It was fun reading up on people's ideas but as usual the High Elf debate trumps and overwhelms everything.

[Combatbutler]

I was just quoting you. You stated they have none of these things, but the fact is, things can be changed. If I were to draw specifics, they would be entirely different than someone else's because the changes can be so broad, so varied. If you want me to give my specifics, then let's see:

What you said is not nearly enough, they need an entirely new culture, they cannot settle near Quel'thalas, they need to be cut off from the sunwell, they need a new goal that would unite them all, something like this for example.

The high elves overstep their bounds with the blood elves and are cut off from the sunwell as a result, so magical addiction kicks back in, they try to find a new source, that does not involve draining from living beings, they find a way to get rid off magical addiction for good, creating a potion to do the trick, all works fine for a couple of months, it is distributed among each enclave and they all feel relieved, then shit hits the fan, the potion has some long term effects, they begin to devolve and turn into wretched like beings, but no longer addicted to magic, to the point they became very resilient against it.

Because they blame their current state on the blood elves ,they renounce all their ties to Quel'thalas and its history move to the west, slaughter the remaining shen'dralar zealots in Eldre'thalas and make that city their own, not tolerating any non high elf within the city walls, while trying to restore themselves, using horrific experiments to do so. Seeking out the Alliance as a whole for more resources.



~~~~~

Which is why I stated that the High elves looking to redevelop their own society without Quel'thelas would be one of their biggest feats and challenges and would develop them as a people depending on how they take on the struggles of doing such. Furthermore, maybe trying to rekindle ties with other nations that distrust them (Night elves, some Humans perhaps, and the Draenei). The Blood elves didn't have this much characterization when it came to establishing diplomatic ties with the Horde. They were just accepted. This could be shown differently for the High elves and the rest of the Alliance who need to be more persuaded into believing they're actually in it for the cause this time.

Then you didn't pay attention to detail, they were not just accepted, especially the darkspear trolls did not like their inclusion into the horde and it had a reason they started neutral with pretty much every horde race except the forsaken, the blood elves had to prove themselves, there is an entire quest chain related to that.

Embracing similar magics as their Blood elven cousins does not make them copycats or redundant, because if a culture is destroyed, what else would they do other than try to preserve it? Rangers would still be around, mages would still be around. How powerful they are depends on their training, not that Blood elves would automatically be greater (that's an unfair and seemingly biased assumption to make). Instead of focusing on magic being the center of their culture, maybe focus more on abstinence from arcane magic because that is what many did after being expelled from Quel'thelas. That's not to say that arcane would be outlawed like the Night elves, but there's just less of a focus. Considering Light magic isn't addictive, maybe more mages would be inclined to be priests and paladins, having a larger chapter of the Holy Light and a smaller emphasis on mages and magisters than the Blood elves. Maybe they'd be more nature-focused, but they don't need to be able to become Druids to accomplish that.

Because their culture is not destroyed the blood elves kept it, with the difference of wearing red and changing their to honor those that were slaughtered during the third war, otherwise they have the exact same culture. What you say above is not nearly enough, there are already blood elves who do exactly the same, they need to be changed on a fundamental level to add something new and interesting and coming back in terms of power, yes blood elf magi are superior, since they unlike the high elves dwelve into magic they encounter and don't understand a prime example would be on the isle of thunder the high elves don't want to understand the Zandalari magic, the blood elves on the other hand try to figure it out.

IIRC, High elves never drained magic from living creatures because they didn't want to liken themselves to vampires, which is why Lor'themar exiled them because he didn't want to lead a divided nation. So I don't understand what you stated in bold. Otherwise, High elves don't need Quel'thelas to be High elves, that's silly reasoning. High elves have been away from Quel'thelas for 10+ years, why does their identity still revolve around it? It shouldn't have to. Giving them a new home wouldn't be counterproductive to wha they are.

I stated that, because they thought this would tarnish their culture, their pride, etc. their old nation pretty much exists today, the blood elves use the exact same culture as a basis for their society, ever since the sunwell has been restored there is no longer a significant cultural divide between them if you even wanted to call it that to begin with, the only significant difference was draining vermin and that is pretty much gone the moment the sunwell came back.

Trying to survive by reestablishing their old nation somewhere else would be the very essence of what they are.

This is the crux, because the blood elves have that culture already to 99,99% the high elves wouldn't establish something new or something special, remarkable, unique. They would try to create a cheap copy of Quel'thalas. If you really want them you have to redefine them on a fundamental level.

[Obelisk Kai]

Because high elves aren't playable.........

As the debate is now High Elf centric, and that is sad, I'll just state that you are wrong. They are playable. Just because they changed their name and changed sides doesn't mean they aren't playable.

[Mehrunes]

You realize how easily any of that could be changed? Vereesa Windrunner is currently very much a figurehead of high elves lore-wise, and their culture and city would be as easy to implement as it was for Worgen and Bilgewater, who I don't think I need to remind you had absolutely no place in lore - either of them - until Cataclysm. There is an empty zone in Quel'thalas that is practically begging for something.

She's a figurehead of one tiny group of High Elves. That went neutral-ish in favor of Hunter class hall in Legion but is also pissed off at their old allies for working with the Horde again. Which is the thing, High Elves aren't even united. And Worgen had no place in lore prior to Cataclysm? Riveting tale. And one of the main reasons why Gilneas was turned into an abandoned wasteland in lore and was not made to be a Worgen capital is because Blizzard didn't want an Alliance capital so close to Undercity and Forsaken starting zones. And you think they'd place an Alliance capital between two Horde capitals? Or that lore-wise the Forsaken and Quel'thalas wouldn't crush an intruder in that small sliver of land?

I already went over this.

You going over this amounted to repeating "but Blizzard can do this!" a few times without bothering to stop if they should or if it would make any sense.

Proper reasoning would be player popularity, and don't kid yourself into thinking high elves aren't a popular choice for players. I've heard talk of high elves since classic. What proof is there that they are not popular? A select few people on this forum trying to say that they're not?
The high possibility comes from a thing called "common sense" that clearly missed you if you can't understand that an aesthetically pleasing elf race would not be much more popular than virtually any other option. Which is exactly why I think many people don't like to hear it; because I've noticed a high rate of vocal people on MMO-C - dare I say a vocal minority? - that seems to hate elves as a whole.

And I've heard talk of Furbolg since classic. It says nothing about how popular it is though. Besides, how cute you chastise others for poor logic and lack of proper reasoning, yet use the infinitesimal reference point of this coming up on MMO-C lore forums often and other anecdotal data. Or, you know, the fact that you base your "proper reasoning" on "common sense" even though it's a logical fallacy. And them potentially being more popular than any other option (look at all the substantiation for that claim) is moving goalposts. I'll ask again, what statistical data did your base your claim of "high possibility" on and how can you be sure it's not, for example, medium possibility?

[Friendlyimmolation]

That's what compromises are all about

Just like how players still refuse to compromise to the fact that the race that formerly called themselves High elves, over 90% of the remaining race, with real leadership, a land to call there own, actual culture and progressive story now call themselves blood elves and went Horde. The few elves that still call themselves High elves aren't even united, with auric trying to get his soilders to rejoin silvermoon, Veressa going neutral for the legion hall. No way in fuck would they be allowed to settle anywhere in the northen eastern kingdoms as an Alliance area, if the blood elves didn't kill them first, the Forsaken would.


now to the main point. The amount of shitty changes you are trying to reason in the petty attempt to get your high elves means you don't really even want high elves. If you actually respected and cared about the lore, you would know why they are only playable in the form of the sin'dorei. You really just want a pretty model for the Alliance, as you still feel cheated that you can only, and will always only be able to play blood elf on the Horde. So stop asking for High elves, when all you really want is another pretty model on your pretty Alliance, and don't really give a shit what race it is as long as it is pretty, you probably only go for high elves, because you can't imagine anything else.

[Florena]

Just like how players still refuse to compromise to the fact that the race that formerly called themselves High elves, over 90% of the remaining race, with real leadership, a land to call there own, actual culture and progressive story now call themselves blood elves and went Horde. The few elves that still call themselves High elves aren't even united, with auric trying to get his soilders to rejoin silvermoon, Veressa going neutral for the legion hall. No way in fuck would they be allowed to settle anywhere in the northen eastern kingdoms as an Alliance area, if the blood elves didn't kill them first, the Forsaken would.


now to the main point. The amount of shitty changes you are trying to reason in the petty attempt to get your high elves means you don't really even want high elves. If you actually respected and cared about the lore, you would know why they are only playable in the form of the sin'dorei. You really just want a pretty model for the Alliance, as you still feel cheated that you can only, and will always only be able to play blood elf on the Horde. So stop asking for High elves, when all you really want is another pretty model on your pretty Alliance, and don't really give a shit what race it is as long as it is pretty, you probably only go for high elves, because you can't imagine anything else.

It's not so much that people just want a generic pretty model on the Alliance, it's that they want to play a high/blood elf on their faction of choice, because high/blood elves are in a unique position of formerly being associated with one faction but introduced as playable to the other. While I agree they won't and shouldn't be added to the Alliance, people want to play them on the faction they used to be a part of, rather than playing them on horde and surrounded by races they don't care about in the rest of the faction.

[Friendlyimmolation]

It's not so much that people just want a generic pretty model on the Alliance, it's that they want to play a high/blood elf on their faction of choice, because high/blood elves are in a unique position of formerly being associated with one faction but introduced as playable to the other. While I agree they won't and shouldn't be added to the Alliance, people want to play them on the faction they used to be a part of, rather than playing them on horde and surrounded by races they don't care about in the rest of the faction.

some days the horde seems to be 90% blood elves, im sure they would get along just fine with every other pretty blood elf in the Horde. If Alliance got a new pretty race, 90% of the tears about blood elves being in the horde would probably die overnight.

[Florena]

some days the horde seems to be 90% blood elves, im sure they would get along just fine with every other pretty blood elf in the Horde. If Alliance got a new pretty race, 90% of the tears about blood elves being in the horde would probably die overnight.

I doubt it. We already have humnas, night elves and draenei as pretty races. And sure BE are the most played horde race but in terms of horde aesthetics and npcs and content blood elves still largely take a back seat to the other races, though they do get their moments in the sun here and there. I think the people wanting high elves want them on their faction of preference, the faction they were associated with pre WoW, rather than the faction where for many people they feel out of place. Because high elves are really the only race once associated with one faction to be made playable by the other, it'd be like if they'd written the story to give the Alliance a troll race and so the horde couldn't have their trolls made playable becaue a larger faction of nearly identical trolls were on the Alliance, some fans would still want their trolls on the Horde.

[Zulkhan]

I dunno, I guess you're right. I just don;t think the difference would be too great. And my original point was that Blizzard did try something different... and most people agree that pandaren are kinda lame.

Pandaren are kinda lame because round pandas look lame. I don't get the correlation you're attempting here.

No, I understand what the point is, but the people who want high elves are not a vocal minority. When this topic comes up on MMO-C, when it comes up ingame, when it comes up virtually everywhere, high elves are often extremely high on the wishlist for many players and one of the first mentioned. The people who want high elves being the "vocal minority" is being disproven in this thread itself based on how often they come up.

It's not disproven, is an actual proof. It's always the same people bringing up the subject to attention and fervently arguing about it. If you follow the pattern of these threads you could literally count these people within the fingers of your hands.

If you truly think that more than a vocal minority give two shits about High Elves among the Alliance playerbase than I fear you're the one deluding yourself.

His reasoning for why they won't do it is illogical, and his insistence on telling people who a very plausible future idea is wrong smells of borderline denial. There is nothing stopping them from introducing high elves as a playable race lore-wise, there's nothing stopping them from introducing them popularity-wise and the amount I've seen him arguing against it makes me think he has some personal horse in the race.

You can push as "valuable" the reasons why High Elves are a very feasible option but you're proposing ideas constantly refuted, by years. Let's just accept the fact that there's people that want High Elves no matter what, it has always been this way and will probably always be.

He was downright saying that high elves being a possibility in the future is somehow deeply improbable to the point of not being worth discussion and on that matter he is wrong.

It's indeed not worthy of discussion, because these arguments have been refuted countless times in all these years, and when such arguments fail then everything falls down to "lol Blizzard can do what it wants deal with it" which is outright retarded, it's the kind of hollow argument for the poster who has nothing more to say.

[Arrashi]

I really think that new races should be something new and completely fresh. Something that will attract new audience to warcraft. Something that will rejuvenate the franchise. So how about....bunnygirls erotically riding carrots ? You know playable virmen.

What a lore friendly addition would that be.

[Garfurion]

It's not so much that people just want a generic pretty model on the Alliance, it's that they want to play a high/blood elf on their faction of choice, because high/blood elves are in a unique position of formerly being associated with one faction but introduced as playable to the other. While I agree they won't and shouldn't be added to the Alliance, people want to play them on the faction they used to be a part of, rather than playing them on horde and surrounded by races they don't care about in the rest of the faction.

I remember back in vanilla people expected High Elves to become the next Alliance player race due to the High Elves in Quel'Danil lodge being part of the Alliance. It's probably one of the reasons, together with Gimli & Legolas from the LotR movies, why people still expect/desire playable Alliance High Elves.

Blizzard has also never done anything to reduce/remove the High Elve presence from the Alliance or reconcile the Blood and High Elves. On the contrary, they have gotten more development over time:

• TBC: More Alliance High Elves added and unique High Elven buildings in the Allerian Stronghold
• WotLK: The Silver Covenant High Elves added with the original High Elven racial mount (unicorn), Tabard and reputation
• Cataclysm: The Silver Covenant join forces with the Dark Spear trolls to fight the Amani trolls.
• MoP: The Silver Covenant plays a key role in the Alliance quest line, including the Purge of the Blood Elves
• Legion: Silver Covenant rangers join the Hunter class hall and their leader Vereesa Windrunner is a key NPC in the Marksmanship Hunter Artifact quest.

I don't think we have any other non-player race which has such a prominent place in the Horde or Alliance so I don't think the demand for Alliance playable High Elves will ever stop unless Blizzard comes up with a good alternative (e.g. more elvish customization options for humans which allow people to RP half-elves or human skin-tones for Night-Elves).

- - - Updated - - -

some days the horde seems to be 90% blood elves, im sure they would get along just fine with every other pretty blood elf in the Horde. If Alliance got a new pretty race, 90% of the tears about blood elves being in the horde would probably die overnight.

Maybe it's time for Blizzard to try and fix the racial imbalance within the Horde. I would hope that people choose to play Horde for reasons other than the Blood Elf model.

[Syegfryed]

TBC: More Alliance High Elves added and unique High Elven buildings in the Allerian Stronghold
WotLK: The Silver Covenant High Elves added with the original High Elven racial mount (unicorn), Tabard and reputation
Cataclysm: The Silver Covenant join forces with the Dark Spear trolls to fight the Amani trolls.
MoP: The Silver Covenant plays a key role in the Alliance quest line, including the Purge of the Blood Elves
Legion: Silver Covenant rangers join the Hunter class hall and their leader Vereesa Windrunner is a key NPC in the Marksmanship Hunter Artifact quest.

and with all this they die a lot, many downs on a dying race with i dunno 1%?

on mop i kill many at the thunder island, after legion events they should be extincted not playable

[Combatbutler]

Maybe it's time for Blizzard to try and fix the racial imbalance within the Horde. I would hope that people choose to play Horde for reasons other than the Blood Elf model.

Most people don't care for the story and background of races, which is why the horde got such a boost in terms of population once blood elves were introduced and 90% of those players have no idea what a blood elf really is, they just like to play shiny.

[Garfurion]

and with all this they die a lot, many downs on a dying race with i dunno 1%?

on mop i kill many at the thunder island, after legion events they should be extincted not playable

You didn't notice them respawning ?

[Friendlyimmolation]

You didn't notice them respawning ?

For real though, Blizzard has done almost nothing but kill them off whenever they pop up.

[Arrashi]

For real though, Blizzard has done almost nothing but kill them off whenever they pop up.

To be fair, population numbers are arguably the most pointless topic in wow lore.

[Hallowseve17]

A stupid attempt at a trade off, there has never been moaning from the horde player base that gnomes are alliance only. You're not going to get helves because of blood elves , and trying to make even less races faction exclusive isn't a good thing. Roll a blood elf or be happy with Night elves, but the petty thinly veiled grabs at blood elves is beyond tiring, especially when people act like burning crusade was just released yesterday.

We're at the point where people are going the route of northem and actually trying to push headcanon as lore In an attempt to make their high elf demand have any semblance of sense in WoW's life time.

Didn't even mention high elves, but okay. I have both a blood elf and night elf character. And I'm definitely not trying to push headcanon.

[Mehrunes]

No own territory: Can be changed
No own culture: Can be changed
No leadership: Can be changed
No future: They have a future. It's already there.
No distinctive features: Can be changed.
No unity: Can be changed.

And where would that territory be? Not getting anywhere near Lordaeron, Theramore is magically irradiated, Dalaran triggered them in Legion. As for leadership, what are the significant High Elves other than Vereesa right now (who teamed up with other groups in Hunter Class Hall)? And how would she unite all the disparate groups of High Elves? Why would the High Elves of Quel'Danil Lodge acknowledge some wannabe Ranger General? And distinctive features can be changed? I thought the goal was to add High Elves, not some different race. Because the only distinctive feature the established race of High Elves has in comparison to the Blood Elves (who, race-wise are High Elves) is the eye color.

Otherwise, the possibilities are endless; even race-class combos can be different to an extent and racials could also be different as well. Matter of fact, it's been -- what -- 10+ years since the removal of High elves from Quel'thelas, their culture and personalities are most likely different by now.

Because 10 years is so long for High Elves.

Considering that Blizzard has probably already thought about that and are still considering them as a sub-race says otherwise.

You linked a video that's almost 2.5 years old as your only source for Blizzard's considering High Elves. That's not "still". Also, just because they considered them back then doesn't actually dismiss the faction balance concern in any way, shape or form. Because the alternative of "we considered them but decided that it would mess faction balance" is just as valid.

A stupid attempt at a trade off, there has never been moaning from the horde player base that gnomes are alliance only. You're not going to get helves because of blood elves , and trying to make even less races faction exclusive isn't a good thing. Roll a blood elf or be happy with Night elves, but the petty thinly veiled grabs at blood elves is beyond tiring, especially when people act like burning crusade was just released yesterday.

We're at the point where people are going the route of northem and actually trying to push headcanon as lore In an attempt to make their high elf demand have any semblance of sense in WoW's life time.

As I said earlier in this thread (or maybe another one, hard to keep track of High Elf threads), if Alliance gets High Elves, the Horde should get Nightborne. Both would be faction-swapped alternative to some of the most popular races (and both are Elves), so seems like a fair trade off. Of course, lore-wise, High Elves are almost extinct and made of few different groups of random nobodies, while Nightborne are somewhat powerful, but hey, everyone in the Alliance wants High Elves apparently. Because that's the logical conclusion from this topic appearing often on MMO-C, after all this lore forum is totally representative of the playerbase. So beggars can't be choosers. And they'd be all too happy after getting their long-awaited and beloved High Elves to be bothered with what Horde got.

Blizzard has also never done anything to reduce/remove the High Elve presence from the Alliance or reconcile the Blood and High Elves. On the contrary, they have gotten more development over time:

• TBC: More Alliance High Elves added and unique High Elven buildings in the Allerian Stronghold
• WotLK: The Silver Covenant High Elves added with the original High Elven racial mount (unicorn), Tabard and reputation
• Cataclysm: The Silver Covenant join forces with the Dark Spear trolls to fight the Amani trolls.
• MoP: The Silver Covenant plays a key role in the Alliance quest line, including the Purge of the Blood Elves
• Legion: Silver Covenant rangers join the Hunter class hall and their leader Vereesa Windrunner is a key NPC in the Marksmanship Hunter Artifact quest.

I don't think we have any other non-player race which has such a prominent place in the Horde or Alliance so I don't think the demand for Alliance playable High Elves will ever stop unless Blizzard comes up with a good alternative (e.g. more elvish customization options for humans which allow people to RP half-elves or human skin-tones for Night-Elves).

Dalaran played a more prominent role throughout the years. Most of the High Elves lore was only as tagalongs for Dalaran story.

Also, to update your list:
TBC: Unique High Elven buildings are Blood Elven buildings with blue roofs.
WotLK: Actually did include an attempt at reconciliation, mostly between the "more Alliance High Elves added" in TBC.
Cataclysm: Yet another example of cooperation between High Elves and Blood Elves (also pointing out that High Elves still do care about Quel'thalas, contrary to what other posters have said). Also, Theramore High Elves have been wiped out. Quel'Lithien Lodge High Elves devolved into Wretched and have been wiped out. Some most likely died when Deathwing destroyed Stormwind's Park district. Quel'Danil was besieged by the Forsaken and most likely incurred some losses.
MoP: Silver Covenant died left and right at Isle of Thunder and in Dalaran.
Legion: What remains of Silver Covenant went neutral and cooperates with the Horde and neutral factions in the Hunter Class Hall.

[Irian]

And I've heard talk of Furbolg since classic. It says nothing about how popular it is though. Besides, how cute you chastise others for poor logic and lack of proper reasoning, yet use the infinitesimal reference point of this coming up on MMO-C lore forums often and other anecdotal data. Or, you know, the fact that you base your "proper reasoning" on "common sense" even though it's a logical fallacy. And them potentially being more popular than any other option (look at all the substantiation for that claim) is moving goalposts. I'll ask again, what statistical data did your base your claim of "high possibility" on and how can you be sure it's not, for example, medium possibility?

And here's where you show your ass.

This entire conversation is anecdotal. You are just as guilty as I am in spouting anecdotal evidence.

The only difference is that I am using common sense, which you are completely lacking and make up for it by trying to argue why someone having an opinion in response to OP that you don't like is wrong. You're forgetting the post that I replied to, or just willfully ignoring it;

I don't understand how anyone thinks they have a strong case for High elves. They are literally blue eyed blood elves with no lore, only exsisting for the most part to be a punching bag for Blood elf questing. They have no culture, no leadership, no city, they aren't welcome in Quel'thalas and their numbers diminish every time they pop up in lore. Not to mention that blood elves became playable long ago, and even when Blood elves weren't playable, Blizzard didn't give the Alliance High elves stating that "blood elves wouldn't be fighting alongside the Alliance anytime soon". But whatever floats the dream boat. The only way you will get to play a Modern High elf, is if you roll Horde, and deal with the green eyes, or blizzard gives blood elves the option to have blue eyes. Either way, they won't be on the Alliance for obvious reasons.

Did you miss this? Did you ignore what I was even arguing against? I'm not saying high elves should be in the game, but trying to ignore the fact that players, after years of nothing but animals and green-skinned races, would want a race that is aesthetically pleasing is not only denial but downright ignorance. Common sense is the point of my argument. Attempting to say that either of us are arguing on points that aren't anecdotal is simply attempting to put yourself on a pedestal that doesn't exist in this case; the post I was replying to to begin with is completely anecdotal and personal opinion, yet I've seen him tote it on a fairly regular basis, as well as many others who have argued against high elves...for virtually zero sensible reason other than a thinly veiled "they aren't happening because I don't like them!"

I don't like them, but if you're going to say they're not going to be implemented for stupid reasons then yes, I'm going to call it what it is. It's wrong, and considering this is a thread about discussing potential future races it would be idiotic to try and censor and downplay one of the highest possibilities with flawed attempts at "logic". None of the points made in that post or any since have said anything that leads me or anyone else with a lick of reason to believe that high elves aren't a very reasonable potential future race, so why are you trying to tell people they're not?