Queue: "If I can't click 1 button, I won't participate"

[Flurryfang]

Oh so a lfd tool you can lord over. Gotcha.
And the LFG dungeon section is highly used, that's where you get mythic groups.
You basically want to be rewarded for finding a group yourself. Nah.

The problem with LFD is the randomness. Give every player the control to either host or join would be great in my opnion.
Yes, it is highly used for Mythic, because you can't que up for that. Make mythic queable and you will see that section be pretty abandoned. Yet i really the dungeon LFG section, because you will see some people, who have really made starting a group into an art. Would love if people were forced into doing that too with normal/heroic dungeons.
Yep! Or atleast make it on the same lvl as LFD...... Wait, you can just join the LFD tool with a group for the random bonus anyway xD So scrap that. Just really don't like the queing into a random people, that is pretty much all.

[Jaylock]

It has nothing to do with inferiority complex. But continue to insult people. It seems like a hobby to you and comes naturally.

If you and people like you requires everyone to be inflated gear requirements and prior experience to clear a group content, that seems to suggest you have a problem with clearing those contents without those requirments.

No, it just means they don't want to continually go over learning curves with people who haven't cleared the content. They already overcome the learning curve once, why would they continually put themselves through wipes with nubs who dont know the encounters?

Its like you feel entitled to be carried by a group of experienced players don't ya? Here's an idea, how about you instead of whining about groups demanding "inflated gear requirements" find training ones? Find training raid groups to join, and get over the learning curve together? Oh yeah thats right, because the moment a wipe happens players like you disappear like the wind because loot didn't drop from the sky due to being carried, or by having stacks of determination giving you an "i win" button.

[Sinyc]

Because I don't have "time" to form a group.

Because I don't want some raid leader to ask for unrealistic requirements.

Those type of excuses always made me lol.

Create your own group you lazy casual whiners!

???????? Do you not comprehend how you contradicted yourself?

[Manabomb]

When the Userbase is spoiled you have to just rip the band-aid off and keep the ones you can. People don't really know what they want exactly, they talk about very minor specifics of certain features, but in actuality the feel of a game is not found in bullet-points on the box.

So wait. Wait. Wait. First the userbase is spoiled (IE, they get everything they want), but then they don't know what they want?

Query, are you fucking stupid? You can't just start talking about super abstract and subjective things like the "feel" of the game and expect a positive response, especially when you claim that the userbase is "spoiled" (despite everyone clearly not getting what they wanted with Cata, MoP or WoD.)

People like you are the same people who have been screaming at the top of their lungs that WoW was better in a bygone age where it didn't have 90% of the features or gameplay mechanics it has now. I call fucking bullshit, as the biggest problem for WoW has been and will always be the abhorrent focus on raiding and the complete abandonment of open world gameplay.

Literally every other "problem" with the game is just a symptom of the real problem that nobody wants to address because it's semi-popular among good players, and a very vocal whiny minority would flip the fuck out if the focus on raiding was ever changed. (As it has in the past, when Blizzard tried to put the world first.)

[judgementofantonidas]

When you are going to Mordor for the 100th time you would want a faster way to get there.

if you have been to mordor 20 times it is time to seek a new resort.

[Blyght]

Here's a hint, don't try to join groups on an undergeared alt. There's a reson the members of a particular group you might try to join are looking for players on par with their item level. Its to reduce the chance of failure. The group finder tool is a means of finding people to run PUG content with. Sometimes it produces friendships and thus leads to guild creation / guild recruitment. That is awesome. But you have to see it from the eyes of the person forming the group. They know absolutely nothing about you other than your character ilvl. They don't know if you know the fights. They don't know if you have been in the dungeon or raid before. They don't know anything about you. You could lie and type in your note that you have a main that you are 13/13 mythic HFC. How would they know you are not lying? Therefore ilvl is the only way they can make an informed judgement on your skill level. And if you whine and complain to the forums that you want all content queueable because "no one will take me" from the group finder tool... its because you are trying to get into groups that are out of your league, and whether you like it or not, if you are a 700 ilvl char trying to join with a group of 720+ ilvl players, you are being carried no matter if you know the fights or not.

Do you like carrying other players? I would guess, probably not. Do you want to spend time to explain fights and discuss strategies? I would say it depends on the situation. If you go into a raid with the thought that you are going to be patient and train new players, then yeah you might like it. But if you are going into a raid just wanting to breeze through it with other players of similar skill, you cant be arsed with training nubs who are wanting carries.

So don't act like the victim and try to say you aren't "THAT GUY" because most certainly you are. Again, nothing wrong with being an undergeared alt, but dont play the victim when you arent invited to a group because you are expecting to be carried to tons of purple pixels.

Ha, Funny guy, 719 ilvl 2 piece tier and a 765 legendary ring is under geared for what exactly? Pray do tell, in your oh so omnipotent opinion? because I would like to know...
- Undergeared for Mythic 5 mans?? No because they can be done @ 665 and my ilvl exceeds that..
- Undergeared for Normal HM/BrF or HFC? no because they can be done at 630, 640 and 675...
- Undergeared for Heroic HM/BrF or HFC? No, because they can be done at 640, 650 and 695...

So, while I have no idea whether or not you are mentally incapacitated, I myself am struggling to understand what the fuck you're getting at? I stated before I'm not crying, and certainly not playing the "victim" but, if you derive some small pleasure from believing that don't let me stop you.

P.S. I've also never stated that any of the above content should be added to auto-queues, I just said I prefer to do the content that is auto-queued over trying to avoid guilds and, or groups with asshats in them.

I'll go back to LFR now, I've been to MMO-C and now I know my place in the world. /s

[Sencha]

???????? Do you not comprehend how you contradicted yourself?

Don't you understand the contradiction when they say they don't have time to form a group (which takes approximately 15-20min) but they have time to raid for 2hours?

Time is the poor excuse of the lazy people.

[judgementofantonidas]

Reading comprehension must not be your thing.

I have stated that when I do non-queued group content it is with guild mates and friends ONLY because the Group Finder and the sort of people that make groups in it have similar elitist attitudes to yours, and I don't want to be bothered with those kinds of people.

So, if there aren't enough guild members or friends on to do the pre-made group content I want to do, I do queue-able stuff. No point in even trying to get into groups with the terrible pre-made group finder. Several people in this thread (including you) have easily proven that you aren't worth a decent human being's time.

Don't blame the casuals for making Warcraft worse. It's the raiders who refuse to teach others and Blizzard who has decided to try to force everyone into raiding. It was never about "helping people get better" for these people it's always been about the gear and their sense of self-worth based on what they can have that others can't.


your title says all anybody needs to see. "raiders refuse to teach others" utter load of horse poop.

- - - Updated - - -

Dial back your tone

I wouldn't ordinarily go to the effort of defending myself but, you don't know me and you certainly don't know whether or not I am "THAT GUY" unless you are clairvoyant. I simply offered up the armory of one my alts as an example of the types of players that get shut out of content by players that exhibit similar views as you. There's no evidence to suggest I need my hand held, or don't know wtf I am doing when I play said alt.

The fact that I come to a WoW Fan Site and post on such sites should tell you I person willing to go the extra mile. Granted posting on a web site is not proof of anything but neither is your fallacious analogy of me as a player.

The evidence is in the clearly purchased end boss, having skipped most of the upper tier.

[Jademist]

Exactly.

Queues don't belong to mmoRPGs.

Says the most popular MMORPGs out there like FFXIV and Guild Wars 2...and WoW, of course.

[judgementofantonidas]

It has nothing to do with inferiority complex. But continue to insult people. It seems like a hobby to you and comes naturally.

If you and people like you requires everyone to be inflated gear requirements and prior experience to clear a group content, that seems to suggest you have a problem with clearing those contents without those requirments.

yep. its pretty obvious I cannot complete raid content with incompetents in the group. hence my very lenient but sufficient to complete the content criteria for choosing pugs. Someone touched on reading comprehension earlier. My references are to pugs. Guild members often have an easier time getting in.......................guild raids.

- - - Updated - - -

It has nothing to do with inferiority complex. But continue to insult people. It seems like a hobby to you and comes naturally.

If you and people like you requires everyone to be inflated gear requirements and prior experience to clear a group content, that seems to suggest you have a problem with clearing those contents without those requirments.

you choose the term inflated, with no basis in fact.

[Shakou]

There's nothing wrong with people that are casuals and don't want to take the time to do content they can't just click a button and queue for, that's totally up for them and doesn't ruin the gaming experience for anyone at all.

Of course those players should also consider playing some kind of single player RPG because that would cater much more to their interests obviously.

That said I'm fairly reasonable when I lead PUGS, the most I ever ask for is that people are on a similar level to myself, because it's just natural that people want to play with others who are close to the same level. So I can sympathize with the so-called "elitist" who isn't interested in helping you progress on content you haven't done before without some compensation and the more casual player who doesn't suck but has a hard time finding groups because of dungeon heroes and whatnot.

But to be sure these type of players exist everywhere, whether you're queueing with players on your server, using the group finder tool, or queueing for level appropriate content intended for beginners, you're always going to run into people who make all kinds of assumptions based on your gear level and typically have standards that are just not realistic. For example, if you have a 720 or higher i lvl right now you need next to nothing from heroic HFC unless it's warforged/socketed etc, for the most part these players are ready for at least the first 4-6 bosses on Mythic and are only raiding normal/heroic for ring upgrades off archie, so it's ridiculous that people demand you have that kind of gear to get into a fresh Heroic HFC group, but on the other hand you'll also find a ton of players complaining about people in normal bgs who actually need gear, as though normal bgs aren't the primary intended place to learn max lvl pvp and get that gear.

I only recently came back to the game after taking a long break right before SOO came out. Granted I don't suck and I get a good grip on mechanics and whatnot after downing the fight, but I'm already over 720 i lvl with 4 piece and class trinket (after only a few weeks of raiding and carrying my own weight to be sure) on my main and my primary alt, and have legendary ring on my main and well on my way to having it on the one alt I do raid with, the only really terrible thing I have found with the Group Finder is that at times it's flooded with bad groups that stay stuck on the same boss forever and people will keep rejoining that group simply because there's more people there than in another group.

Simply put, players need to be more proactive about forming groups with players that are similarly geared and skilled, those features are there for your convenience but you have no one else to blame but yourself if you don't take the time to screen players before accepting them into your group or when you've decided to stay in a group that isn't going anywhere.

If you had more of that going on you'd probably have much less of people having unrealistic requirements to join their groups.

[kary]

Ha, Funny guy, 719 ilvl 2 piece tier and a 765 legendary ring is under geared for what exactly? Pray do tell, in your oh so omnipotent opinion? because I would like to know...
- Undergeared for Mythic 5 mans?? No because they can be done @ 665 and my ilvl exceeds that..
- Undergeared for Normal HM/BrF or HFC? no because they can be done at 630, 640 and 675...
- Undergeared for Heroic HM/BrF or HFC? No, because they can be done at 640, 650 and 695...

So, while I have no idea whether or not you are mentally incapacitated, I myself am struggling to understand what the fuck you're getting at? I stated before I'm not crying, and certainly not playing the "victim" but, if you derive some small pleasure from believing that don't let me stop you.

P.S. I've also never stated that any of the above content should be added to auto-queues, I just said I prefer to do the content that is auto-queued over trying to avoid guilds and, or groups with asshats in them.

I'll go back to LFR now, I've been to MMO-C and now I know my place in the world. /s

It's not undergeared, but there are people with shinier purples applying.
Why would I take you when I could take someone with a maxed ring and 4pc?

I'm not saying you're undergeared either. But if you had to choose between 50 dollars and 100 dollars, most of us would take the larger sum.

[Blyght]

Don't blame the casuals for making Warcraft worse. It's the raiders who refuse to teach others and Blizzard who has decided to try to force everyone into raiding. It was never about "helping people get better" for these people it's always been about the gear and their sense of self-worth based on what they can have that others can't.


your title says all anybody needs to see. "raiders refuse to teach others" utter load of horse poop.

- - - Updated - - -



The evidence is in the clearly purchased end boss, having skipped most of the upper tier.

That's your opinion and that is fine, but it's not proof of anything.

Typo

[Dead Moose Fandango]

I don't get that some people don't understand that I do way more interacting and random talking/making friends with people via LFG/LFR than I eeeeever do using the specified search functions. Hell, with the prior, it's easier to handle and I thus get more slack to goof off and talk to people. Meanwhile, if I do the latter, it's usually more "Hey, focus on the dungeon/raid jagoff, or we're gonna kick you." If I wanna ran hard stuff, I'll get friends. If I wanna have a variety, I'll do LFG.

[Blyght]

If you had to choose between 50 dollars and 100 dollars, most of us would take the larger sum.

That is a very poor analogy. Money is typically a reward for something, should have used one that compares performance.

The flip side to your argument is: How does someone applying to a group, or a guild for that matter, know that they are not all JayLock clones? I wouldn't raid with JayLock or anyone of his ilk to save Azeroth. I certainly wouldn't want to be in a guild/on VoIP or interacting with anyone like them at all. The sword cuts both ways.

[Marrilaife]

Funny how people who rather spend 10 hours a day trying to get into a pug and then getting something done by said pug instead of join a guild and get faster into a raid that will actually get some stuff done in 3 hours, and most casual or "semi-hardcore" guilds don't even require 100% attendance. I think what most puggers call "lack of time" is actually "lack of desire to commit", and most of the time when such people join guilds and don't pass the trial it's due to skipping raids not because of emergency or job shifts but because they cba and they want to dictate when they will show to the raid and when they won't depending on mood.

If people want to treat wow end-game as eat it all buffet they visit whenever they want, take whatever they want and leave whenever they want, that's never gonna happen unless they go buy a boost. It can only work for trivial content like kazzak is now (a lot of groups have auto invite on).

The problem with pug "community" is people are so trigger happy to leave for whatever reasons you can't afford taking everyone, then going for few tries and kicking out the failers and then filling the spots. By that time anyone worth anything in the group will already have insta left 3 times over so you have to start from scratch, often ending up in whole day of pugging and barely any boss killed except few super simple ones. Pug community is plagued by leavers, people who cba, people who cannot stick to a guild, schedule or social commitment. Trying to placate them ends up in super inflated requirements to be certain it will go smooth so people hopefully won't insta leave. You still have people who leave because they were here only to coin 1 boss etc. But a wipe or two ensures half the group will leave. Because of that progress oriented pugs are dead. The only ones left are either high gear faceroll or carry with half the people needing the gear and the other half being their mythic geared friends "helping out".

Queue for content that is harder than MOP LFR durumu or pre-nerf garalon will ensure the following will happen:
Player has left the group.
Player has left the group.
Player has left the group.
Player has left the group.
Player has left the group.
.
.
.

And so on.

Actually, anyone remembers pre-nerf lfr archimonde? I don't because I didn't need to kill him on lfr, but I heard stories.

They put determination in lfr in hopes that the endless cycle of leave-refill will actually lead somewhere.

It's not skill holding players back in random queue content, it's lack of giving a f. Nowadays in lfr it's a miracle if anyone gets kicked (unless the boss resets by jumping to an afk player outside of the room). I did some brf lfr recently for a legendary ring on a fresh alt, there were people blatantly afk in the instance and most of the time there weren't even as much as 4 people giving a f to initiate vote kick. Now imagine content that requires you not only to not be afk and participate but actually do stuff correctly.

[judgementofantonidas]

That is a very poor analogy. Money is typically a reward for something, should have used one that compares performance.

The flip side to your argument is: How does someone applying to a group, or a guild for that matter, know that they are not all JayLock clones? I wouldn't raid with JayLock or anyone of his ilk to save Azeroth. I certainly wouldn't want to be in a guild/on VoIP or interacting with anyone like them at all. The sword cuts both ways.

How do you know how JayLock acts or even sounds like on voice? How do you know that his guild/raidgroup is not competent, orderly, and gets the job done with a minimum of drama?

[Sinyc]

Don't you understand the contradiction when they say they don't have time to form a group (which takes approximately 15-20min) but they have time to raid for 2hours?

Time is the poor excuse of the lazy people.

It doesn't have to be for raiding. And maybe they aren't good at advertising or don't feel comfortable spamming a channel and asking for help.

LFG takes all that out of their hands and automates the process. Why is that a bad thing?

Different people play the same game in very different ways.

[Blyght]

How do you know how JayLock acts or even sounds like on voice? How do you know that his guild/raidgroup is not competent, orderly, and gets the job done with a minimum of drama?

You are entitled to your opinion, to which you freely express with no actual evidence. I assume that I too am entitled to the same, yes? Besides, my point was rhetorical, I couldn't give a monkeys if MrDoucheBag2k16 has cleared World First content or is stuck farming lower citadel on mythic.

Oh and I've been lurking on MMO-C for about 8 years, in all that time I've seen enough threads/comments to get a feel for a person.

[Kraineth]

That is a very poor analogy. Money is typically a reward for something, should have used one that compares performance.

The flip side to your argument is: How does someone applying to a group, or a guild for that matter, know that they are not all JayLock clones? I wouldn't raid with JayLock or anyone of his ilk to save Azeroth. I certainly wouldn't want to be in a guild/on VoIP or interacting with anyone like them at all. The sword cuts both ways.

I don't really see how this is a valid argument.

When applying for a guild with any sort of standards you will generally be required to talk to officers/guild members in mumble/ts/skype which is almost always to gauge your attitude. Then you tack on a 1 month or longer trial period to further test the waters.

Nothing like that is even close to necessary for organizing a group for mythic 5man content lol. You don't need VOIP, and you don't need organization. All you need to do is look for a group in the premade group finder that works almost exactly like a queue system, but allows for people to pick and choose who they want.