[SURVIVAL]Legion Alpha Discussion

[Appelgren]

I'm definitely missing the jump+turn+disengage+land with posthaste combo and the passive glyphed AotC.

This so much. I feel insanely gimped by not having disengage to move forward and get a speedboost. Also no deterrence feels like SV will suck ASS in pvp :/

[Deleted]

This so much. I feel insanely gimped by not having disengage to move forward and get a speedboost. Also no deterrence feels like SV will suck ASS in pvp :/

What??, all 3 specs have the same "deterrrance". Aspect of the turtle.

[Appelgren]

What??, all 3 specs have the same "deterrrance". Aspect of the turtle.

What does that have to do with anything? Im simply comparing SV on live and SV on beta?

[Deleted]

I feel quite different. SV is excellent in competitive pvp on a small scale. With Tracker's Net you basically have an instant CC against damage dealers, hitting freezing trap on a 20s CD with talents and artifact perks is a no brainer with Ranger's Net and SV's burst potential is off the charts - MB is chunking away their health and with a pin down assist from someone else Fury of the Eagle just erases people.

Reseting fights as SV is really easy, Mending Bandage is powerful as all hell and even in BGs, if you utilize traps well you can be a massive pain in the butt for the enemy team because you are slowing THE WORLD with caltrops.

It's extremely hard to catch a SV hunter off guard with all that instant CC up his sleeve - and even if you do Exhilaration is powerful as all hell (+ Aspect of the Turtle copied Mage's Ice Block Healing in WoD).

Just because we don't *excel* in duels it doesn't mean we suck in PvP generally. All the time I see SV hunters in BGs mindlessly charging (pardon, harpooning!) into a massive zerg, thinking they are a warrior, hit Mongoose Bite maybe twice before dying and proceed into the forums to let loose their misguided anger.

Yes, it requires some finesse. It plays more like how WW monk used to be, not like a warrior. Yes, you need some support - but everyone does now.

[Phototropic]

Also no deterrence feels like SV will suck ASS in pvp :/

What??, all 3 specs have the same "deterrrance". Aspect of the turtle.

What does that have to do with anything? Im simply comparing SV on live and SV on beta?

Eh? /10char

[Appelgren]

Eh? /10char

Are you arguing some kind of point here? Because if you are then i dont get it.

Ill make my point even more clear than ive already done.

Survival on live (that is current date warlords of draenor) you have 2 charges of deterrence and in Survival on beta (that is the legion expansion beta where SV now is a melee spec)

Comparing SV now and then i came to the conclusion that SV feels squishier because i dont have deterrence. I know that all hunter specs on the beta have the same kind of "deterrence". However that is not what im talking about. Im talking about live SV and beta SV and the difference between them.

Do you understand?

[Deleted]

What does that have to do with anything? Im simply comparing SV on live and SV on beta?

It has literally everything to do with it. Aspect of the turtle is just a reskinned deterrence. SV still has deterrence.

[Appelgren]

I feel quite different. SV is excellent in competitive pvp on a small scale. With Tracker's Net you basically have an instant CC against damage dealers, hitting freezing trap on a 20s CD with talents and artifact perks is a no brainer with Ranger's Net and SV's burst potential is off the charts - MB is chunking away their health and with a pin down assist from someone else Fury of the Eagle just erases people.

Reseting fights as SV is really easy, Mending Bandage is powerful as all hell and even in BGs, if you utilize traps well you can be a massive pain in the butt for the enemy team because you are slowing THE WORLD with caltrops.

It's extremely hard to catch a SV hunter off guard with all that instant CC up his sleeve - and even if you do Exhilaration is powerful as all hell (+ Aspect of the Turtle copied Mage's Ice Block Healing in WoD).

Just because we don't *excel* in duels it doesn't mean we suck in PvP generally. All the time I see SV hunters in BGs mindlessly charging (pardon, harpooning!) into a massive zerg, thinking they are a warrior, hit Mongoose Bite maybe twice before dying and proceed into the forums to let loose their misguided anger.

Yes, it requires some finesse. It plays more like how WW monk used to be, not like a warrior. Yes, you need some support - but everyone does now.

Bg and world pvp means nothing to me. Im looking at pvp through an arena point of view. Thats why i felt that having 1 "deterrence" instead of 2 is gimped. And rightly so

- - - Updated - - -

It has literally everything to do with it. Aspect of the turtle is just a reskinned deterrence. SV still has deterrence.

Except its half as effective... you have 1 "charge" instead of 2 = its worse in legion than on live.

[Deleted]

Except its half as effective... you have 1 "charge" instead of 2 = its worse in legion than on live.

It also lasts 3 seconds longer.

But regardless, now you're just moving the goalposts. You claimed SV didn't have deterrence, someone corrected you and you're trying to pretend you meant something else.

It's fine, we all make mistakes.

[Appelgren]

It also lasts 3 seconds longer.

But regardless, now you're just moving the goalposts. You claimed SV didn't have deterrence, someone corrected you and you're trying to pretend you meant something else.

It's fine, we all make mistakes.

Haha... you are hilarious. I claimed they dont have deterrence and technically they dont have an ability called deterrence. You lose

[Deleted]

I was talking about SV being great in arena and acceptable in everything else PvP. Don't turn words around.

[Shasta31]

I don't feel like you can compare SV live to SV in Legion. The only similarity is they both have Traps.

Turtle is still a strong defensive CD. Deterence was stronger, espiecally when you throw in using one of the two Glyphs for it. But Tutle will still do it's job.

[Appelgren]

I was talking about SV being great in arena and acceptable in everything else PvP. Don't turn words around.

Im not turning words. Im just being specific about what im talking about to avoid confusion

[Azortharion]

It also lasts 3 seconds longer.

But regardless, now you're just moving the goalposts. You claimed SV didn't have deterrence, someone corrected you and you're trying to pretend you meant something else.

It's fine, we all make mistakes.

The duration of the buff is fucking irrelevant 99% of the time, you use it to soak mechanics or single big hits. You almost never sit in Deterrence for the full duration on live anymore.

[Ehuehuecopter]

The duration of the buff is fucking irrelevant 99% of the time, you use it to soak mechanics or single big hits. You almost never sit in Deterrence for the full duration on live anymore.

*

Deterrence isnt Divine Shield or Barskin, it is just a "lol nope"-spell to avoid particular dmg, like fel burst, but there is a reason if we use the cancel aura macro...we need to lose only that 1sec and go back nuke

[Thursley]

There are definitely times when you do want to sit in it for the full duration or very nearly (soaking wrath of gul'dan on mythic mannoroth, I sit in deterrence for 10 seconds in a row). Sure, not many, but when they do pop up they tend to be very valuable. No one else can negate damage for that long while also being able to move around.

Overall of course it's a nerf, especially when you also lose the cooldown reduction of CTHC, but isn't that consistent with nerfs to the defensive capabilities of a lot of DPS classes? It seems like an overarching design direction, not just a "deterrence is too strong" adjustment.

[c000]

I don't understand why they gave survival so many blasted slows. Its like they couldn't be a LITTLE more creative and spiced things up with some variety?

caltrops: 70% movement reduction
dragonfire grenade: 20% movement reduction
tar trap: 50% movement reduction
ranger net: root, then reduce movement speed by 50%
aspect of the beast (cunning) reduces target movement speed by 50%
expert trapper (freezing trap) reduces movement speed by 50%
wing clip: reduces movement speed by 50%

this is very, very boring to me. complete lack of variety here =/

[Thursley]

Looking at it like that is a bit unreasonable.

- Caltrops replaces Tar Trap with an improved version
- Ranger Net replaces Wing Clip with an improved version
- Dragonsfire Grenade is much more about the damage than the slow
- Expert Trapper buffs all traps in various ways, the slow on freezing trap is applied around a secondary target that you've CCed rather than your primary target, and it's mutually exclusive with Aspect of the Beast because it's on the same talent row

Slows are pretty important as a melee. Having a lot of options for applying slows means you get to choose which you want, and get some other things with the other talents. And you can still get an incapacitate from Freezing Trap, a root from Steel Trap, and a knockback from Sticky Bomb. Seems like plenty of variety to work with. The only thing missing is a stun. If your actual complaint is "we don't have a stun" then fine, but that's very different from "we have too many slows and nothing else."

[MrTharne]

Tested on PTR and really liked it (those animations on my Tauren <3 ). One thing weird though : Is it normal for Lacerate to give a stack of the damage buff for Mongoose Bite ?

[Piz813]

did not troll this thread..

anyone have a quick PvE rotaion/priority to share please. want to try on the PTR today