1. #6621
    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodchild View Post
    Please don't use the word "lazy" to describe only one activity in a game where we all literally just sit around for hours each day clicking a button
    Exactly. Its an effing game. It's meant to be a form of entertainment, not a job.

    People seriously need to get over themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dethmold View Post
    Every single day i log into WoW, no matter the expansion i always wish this time they would remove flying. Just completely gone, poof! And replace it with just something like Goblin Gliders where you could get skins. Something that gives you the faster travel option, but doesn't completely destroy the size of the world and the connection with the game.
    You're doing something wrong if flight is destroying your connection with the game.

    Flight brought me more into the game then I ever was before. Instead of alt-tabing or walking away from the computer during flight paths I would be exploring the world while I travel to my destination. I would go check all the cool areas Blizzard designed and found every last thing to do.

    Without flight in WoD I did nothing.
    Last edited by Bun-Bun; 2016-06-17 at 03:21 PM.

  2. #6622
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    BTW why is this thread still going?
    Because people keep posting in it.
    "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

  3. #6623
    Quote Originally Posted by Bun-Bun View Post
    The only thing we have now that we didn't in WoD is pathfinder. That's it. That doesn't mean anything as we have no idea what they are going to add to it and how long we have to wait for flight to unlock. Blizzard has given zero specifics on this.

    This is exactly what happened prior to WoD release. We have Blizz announce at blizzcon their intentions and Bashiok elaborate on them further in a few blue posts. Turned out to be all lies.

    The wait and see approach to flight in WoD is exactly how they are handling flight in Legion.
    Technically, that was the "story" they tried to sell us: The actual approach was to remove Flight stealthily.

    "Flight is coming mid-expansion", is a LOT more vague than "Flight is coming in 6.1 with an epic questline", and as we all know, the second one turned out to be nothing but lies.

    Also, technically, Flight in WoD DID end up coming mid-expansion... as the game had about 1 year of "development" and then we got about 16 months of content drought before Legion.

    So yeah, what do those words mean, in practical terms? Nothing.
    Last edited by Connll; 2016-06-17 at 03:49 PM.

  4. #6624
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bun-Bun View Post
    Exactly. Its an effing game. It's meant to be a form of entertainment, not a job.

    People seriously need to get over themselves.

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    You're doing something wrong if flight is destroying your connection with the game.

    Flight brought me more into the game then I ever was before. Instead of alt-tabing or walking away from the computer during flight paths I would be exploring the world while I travel to my destination. I would go check all the cool areas Blizzard designed and found every last thing to do.
    Flying made me stop caring about the areas within a map:

    The wonder of the area it self and how it was meant to be experienced i.e. The Worgan area in Blasted Lands, or the cave where Arthas and Magni were in Dragon Blight. These details from the sky are missed, skipped or blur into one and it removes the fantasy.

    The reason i was there, when you fly you loose the context of the area. Why this area is a desert or full of life.

    The danger of being in that area, Fighting through packs of mobs to get to a certain mob/point or the fear of being ganked. There is no fear when the fear can be removed by just flying away.

    The exploration aspect completely disappeared, I was now able to soar into the sky and see further then ever and now i didn't have to bother exploring this remote area because i could see it from up in the sky.

    Ground mounts inherently are meant to provide you with a quick means of transport, but not negate the content.

    Without flight in WoD I did nothing.
    Thats more bad game design.

  5. #6625
    Quote Originally Posted by Dethmold View Post
    Flying made me stop caring about the areas within a map:

    The wonder of the area it self and how it was meant to be experienced i.e. The Worgan area in Blasted Lands, or the cave where Arthas and Magni were in Dragon Blight. These details from the sky are missed, skipped or blur into one and it removes the fantasy.

    The reason i was there, when you fly you loose the context of the area. Why this area is a desert or full of life.

    The danger of being in that area, Fighting through packs of mobs to get to a certain mob/point or the fear of being ganked. There is no fear when the fear can be removed by just flying away.

    The exploration aspect completely disappeared, I was now able to soar into the sky and see further then ever and now i didn't have to bother exploring this remote area because i could see it from up in the sky.

    Ground mounts inherently are meant to provide you with a quick means of transport, but not negate the content.

    It's your choice to negate that content. I have no issue experiencing everything Blizzard has put into the game while having flying mounts. I use ground mounts when appropriate and am excited to get out into the world to do things.

    I played vanilla without flight. I welcomed flight when it arrived in BC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dethmold View Post

    Thats more bad game design.
    Bit of both. There was a lack of purpose to go out to do the content that was there. But there was also this underlying anger towards being forced back to FPs. I wasn't excited to explore the world anymore. And Draenor was beautiful. Too bad I'll never get to see it all (which is the devs fear that led to their actions on flight. Funny how the thing they were trying to fix was the cause of it for me).

  6. #6626
    Quote Originally Posted by Dethmold View Post
    Flying made me stop caring about the areas within a map:

    The wonder of the area it self and how it was meant to be experienced i.e. The Worgan area in Blasted Lands, or the cave where Arthas and Magni were in Dragon Blight. These details from the sky are missed, skipped or blur into one and it removes the fantasy.

    The reason i was there, when you fly you loose the context of the area. Why this area is a desert or full of life.

    The danger of being in that area, Fighting through packs of mobs to get to a certain mob/point or the fear of being ganked. There is no fear when the fear can be removed by just flying away.

    The exploration aspect completely disappeared, I was now able to soar into the sky and see further then ever and now i didn't have to bother exploring this remote area because i could see it from up in the sky.

    Ground mounts inherently are meant to provide you with a quick means of transport, but not negate the content.
    Who forced you to use flying mounts?
    "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. #6627
    Legendary! MasterHamster's Avatar
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    It's always a bit confusing how it's a choice to not fly, however avoiding the use of FPs is apparently impossible.
    In the end it's always the same thing: players choosing the easiest route to attain their goals. T'is how competitive progression online games work.

    It's as dumb as the leveling debate whether you're "forced" to use heirlooms, no I'm not technically forced but in a freaking MMO why the hell would I not choose to deal like 3x more damage and gain 50% more exp.

    That said, with all the (well at least proposed) changes to Legion I'm very much fine with flight being added somewhere in the middle. If they play their cards right Legion might actually keep players having things to strive for for a long time. And finally going away from the retardation that was called "aim for yearly expansions"

    Glad WoD taught them that lesson.
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2016-06-17 at 04:26 PM.
    Active WoW player Jan 2006 - Aug 2020
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    Nothing lasts forever, as they say.
    But at least I can casually play Classic and remember when MMORPGs were good.

  8. #6628
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    It's always a bit confusing how it's a choice to not fly, however avoiding the use of FPs is apparently impossible.
    In the end it's always the same thing: players choosing the easiest route to attain their goals. T'is how competitive progression online games work.

    It's as dumb as the leveling debate whether you're "forced" to use heirlooms, no I'm not technically forced but in a freaking MMO why the hell would I not choose to deal like 3x more damage and gain 50% more exp.

    That said, with all the (well at least proposed) changes to Legion I'm very much fine with flight being added somewhere in the middle. If they play their cards right Legion might actually keep players having things to strive for for a long time. And finally going away from the retardation that was called "aim for yearly expansions"

    Glad WoD taught them that lesson.
    We are not asking for flying while leveling.
    "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

  9. #6629
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idoru View Post
    We are not asking for flying while leveling.
    I do, loved cataclysm leveling.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  10. #6630
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    I do, loved cataclysm leveling.
    Damn, the one time I didn't say "most of us".
    "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

  11. #6631
    Quote Originally Posted by Dethmold View Post

    The wonder of the area it self and how it was meant to be experienced i.e. The Worgan area in Blasted Lands, or the cave where Arthas and Magni were in Dragon Blight. These details from the sky are missed, skipped or blur into one and it removes the fantasy.

    The reason i was there, when you fly you loose the context of the area. Why this area is a desert or full of life.

    The danger of being in that area, Fighting through packs of mobs to get to a certain mob/point or the fear of being ganked. There is no fear when the fear can be removed by just flying away.

    The exploration aspect completely disappeared, I was now able to soar into the sky and see further then ever and now i didn't have to bother exploring this remote area because i could see it from up in the sky.

    Ground mounts inherently are meant to provide you with a quick means of transport, but not negate the content.
    Pretty much the fact that you quest in those areas while leveling and NOT flying negates your points. Exploration? I find I spend more time exploring with my flying mount than when I am leveling and ground mounted. I have business at hand... leveling.


    And as far as flying breaking fantasy? This is EXACTLY how I feel when I dive down to engage in combat. It's amazing, awesome and FULL OF FANTASY!


  12. #6632
    After exploring 7.0 content, I'm 100% sure about not enabling flying on launch. There are many things in the world, like grappling hooks in Stormheim, finding your way to the top in Highmountain, walking on Suramar City streets disguised as Nightborne, where you feel the constant threat that any time someone can blow your cover and you are dead in 90% times. They made this world alive again and flying really break the game in many cases. I know, someone will say that I can run if I want, but all people always choose path of least resistance. For example, if I could teleport in any place in the world, I would do it to get faster rewards like everybody, but it still would be game breaking.

    I understand that a lot of people like flying and WoW can have cool zones for it like Storm Peaks (Icecrown I believe would be much cooler without it, imagine that you must survive in this land and flying machine is only safe zone that you could reach only with special cooldown). Flying is also great for archeology, discover world from whole new perspective and great way for people to catch up when they late into expansion. That is why Blizz solution seems to be perfect. Achievement for it is veeery easy to do, I believe all this things you do anything, because artifact power is the most important resource in Legion and is needed for everybody (expect pet battles, sorry ;P).

    I believe in next expansion they should make one zone, where flying is enabled in the start, it would add even more variety to the game.

  13. #6633
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    And as far as flying breaking fantasy? This is EXACTLY how I feel when I dive down to engage in combat. It's amazing, awesome and FULL OF FANTASY!
    Too bad he's flying in outdated content... doing apexis daily I presume? Because you can't fly in current content in warcraft.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  14. #6634
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bun-Bun View Post
    This is an extremely poor argument. The only way it has merit is if you assumed all of Vanilla DIII issues were based on the AH. That couldn't be further from the truth. Was the AH against the spirit and design philosophy of dungeon crawling? Yes, and that is why it was removed. Simply removing the AH didn't fix the game. All the changes and refinements they made after removing the AH is what has made the game what it is today.
    Its an entirely valid argument, providing you understand the point hes making (which went zooming over your head).

  15. #6635
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Too bad he's flying in outdated content... doing apexis daily I presume? Because you can't fly in current content in warcraft.
    I am flying in current content. Beta is not current content... and now they are adding flying back mid expansion... later than I want but earlier than WoD.

  16. #6636
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    I am flying in current content. Beta is not current content... and now they are adding flying back mid expansion... later than I want but earlier than WoD.
    I don't think Elim was talking about WoW. He can feel free to confirm that or explain it.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  17. #6637
    Quote Originally Posted by Dethmold View Post
    Every single day i log into WoW, no matter the expansion i always wish this time they would remove flying. Just completely gone, poof! And replace it with just something like Goblin Gliders where you could get skins. Something that gives you the faster travel option, but doesn't completely destroy the size of the world and the connection with the game.
    And what if, instead, they just increased the size of the game and made flying a big part of it. With skins and challenges and terrain that made your sense of wonder go crazy? Fill the sky with airships, floating castles, dragons, fire from the sky, etc?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    After exploring 7.0 content, I'm 100% sure about not enabling flying on launch. There are many things in the world, like grappling hooks in Stormheim, finding your way to the top in Highmountain, walking on Suramar City streets disguised as Nightborne, where you feel the constant threat that any time someone can blow your cover and you are dead in 90% times. They made this world alive again and flying really break the game in many cases. I know, someone will say that I can run if I want, but all people always choose path of least resistance. For example, if I could teleport in any place in the world, I would do it to get faster rewards like everybody, but it still would be game breaking.

    I understand that a lot of people like flying and WoW can have cool zones for it like Storm Peaks (Icecrown I believe would be much cooler without it, imagine that you must survive in this land and flying machine is only safe zone that you could reach only with special cooldown). Flying is also great for archeology, discover world from whole new perspective and great way for people to catch up when they late into expansion. That is why Blizz solution seems to be perfect. Achievement for it is veeery easy to do, I believe all this things you do anything, because artifact power is the most important resource in Legion and is needed for everybody (expect pet battles, sorry ;P).

    I believe in next expansion they should make one zone, where flying is enabled in the start, it would add even more variety to the game.

    Hmm...why the hell do we need a grappling hook when we have dragons and griffons at our beck and call? I realize that by using my flying mount I'm destroying the opportunity to experience the gameplay of using a grappling hook, but that just makes me wonder why they didn't design the hook to be used from the back of a flying mount. Throw in some other forms of obstacles that are relevant to someone in the air instead of ignoring the reality that we have that tool available to us. If they're going to spend the time and effort to come up with new and interesting mechanics and tools to use while questing, then some of those new tools and mechanics should take flying into consideration, don't you think?

    Now, part of the reason why something like a grappling hook doesn't make sense is because of the nature of how flying currently works. It's a helicopter. Hovering. Maybe if we had some real flight mechanics that were more realistic, it would open up the opportunity for more interesting gameplay involving flight? I know a lot of people didn't like it, but the Jousting quest in Hyjal is one example of this.

    The stealthy part I can understand, at least, and that shouldn't be hard to implement. Some situations and encounters require a subtle approach, or diplomacy, and simply storming the place with a giant flying beast won't work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    Its an entirely valid argument, providing you understand the point hes making (which went zooming over your head).
    He's over-exaggerating the effect of the AH on D3 vanilla in order to make his argument seem more effective. He's also misrepresenting the reasons why the RMAH was removed.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2016-06-17 at 09:52 PM.

  18. #6638
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    And what if, instead, they just increased the size of the game and made flying a big part of it. With skins and challenges and terrain that made your sense of wonder go crazy? Fill the sky with airships, floating castles, dragons, fire from the sky, etc?
    At what height do you stop filling the sky with things?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Hmm...why the hell do we need a grappling hook when we have dragons and griffons at our beck and call? I realize that by using my flying mount I'm destroying the opportunity to experience the gameplay of using a grappling hook, but that just makes me wonder why they didn't design the hook to be used from the back of a flying mount. Throw in some other forms of obstacles that are relevant to someone in the air instead of ignoring the reality that we have that tool available to us. If they're going to spend the time and effort to come up with new and interesting mechanics and tools to use while questing, then some of those new tools and mechanics should take flying into consideration, don't you think?
    Grappling hook is more interesting IMO (although extremely minor) than just flying over the wall.
    Probably mostly because wow is designed as a 2d platformer in a 3d environment


    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    He's over-exaggerating the effect of the AH on D3 vanilla in order to make his argument seem more effective. He's also misrepresenting the reasons why the RMAH was removed.
    Not really, if you didnt AH you would be at a significant disadvantage.
    I made millions and millions in D3 just selling 400(i think, whatever high dps was back in the day )dps blue weapons on launch.
    Was it fun, not really.

  19. #6639
    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    Its an entirely valid argument, providing you understand the point hes making (which went zooming over your head).
    Sure, cut out the rest of my post that further refutes that argument.

    The point he was making is invalid. It does not apply to flight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    Grappling hook is more interesting IMO (although extremely minor) than just flying over the wall.
    Probably mostly because wow is designed as a 2d platformer in a 3d environment
    WTF are you smoking? WoW is not a platformer. Blizzard tried to turn it into one with WoD and it sucked horribly. The game engine was not designed to be a platformer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    Not really, if you didnt AH you would be at a significant disadvantage.
    I made millions and millions in D3 just selling 400(i think, whatever high dps was back in the day )dps blue weapons on launch.
    Was it fun, not really.
    Top players in vanilla DIII were there without the AH. They just used it to their advantage later.

    AH was not the problem with DIII. And comparing AH to flight is simply ludicrous.

  20. #6640

    No flying in 7.0 confirmed

    D3s problem again, was lack of meaningful content.

    AH wasn't the only issue but it did contribute to general player issues and made it even easier to do even less in the game world.

    It is similar to flying, as long as you're not just using it to fly around and look at things
    Last edited by wing5wong; 2016-06-17 at 10:37 PM.

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