Need help with ram/memory!

[stevenho]

Didn't delid mine, but Vcore is pretty high, yolo...
Would be cool if you could record anything with BL pull to see, in case you do, please dent forget to quote me so I can see the notification and don't miss it.

[Evildeffy]

Didn't delid mine, but Vcore is pretty high, yolo...
Would be cool if you could record anything with BL pull to see, in case you do, please dent forget to quote me so I can see the notification and don't miss it.

Here you go, nothing special but it shows you settings and FPS.

As you can see there are SOME minor dips (total of like 3 seconds out of 1 minute) that is in the 40s and the rest is 50 - 60FPS with some 70FPS.
This is done with capturing which has about a 20% impact on my FPS since it's done via CPU.

This with the following specs:
Imgur link of CPU-Z - CPU and Memory tab

I had done Archimonde which actually had slightly more FPS but I had switched VSync off and started recording on OBS I forgot to relog the game so I had nothing but a black screen.

Note the PC specs etc. is from Pre-Throne of Thunder, it was my pre-set streaming UI.

So a 2500K @ 4,6GHz which would require my CPU to be 5,52GHz to match if the load was equal (less is required due to the fact that I was capturing).
So with those reductions he will have 50+ continuously if not higher.

[stevenho]

Here you go, nothing special but it shows you settings and FPS.

As you can see there are SOME minor dips (total of like 3 seconds out of 1 minute) that is in the 40s and the rest is 50 - 60FPS with some 70FPS.
This is done with capturing which has about a 20% impact on my FPS since it's done via CPU.

Thanks for following up with a video. In the meantime I did some research and came to a few conclusions, might as well share them here.

The most important thing to mention is that I was basing my FPS numbers on Archi 20m fight. At this point in the expansion it is close to all I am doing. Seeing your video made me realize that there is a reason my Archi FPS was dipping into 40s - it is set in an open space with a big view range. Having view distance on ultra is very taxing on the CPU and after lowering it for that fight I noticed a big improvement (our settings were identical btw). For comparison I joined a 30man LFR for council which is set in a small room and FPS on pull with BL was actually in the 50s. Still, a few weeks ago archi FPS went down by about 10 and I had many ppl complain about it in gchat. Reasons unknown to me.

Now about our previous conversation, I said I don't buy your CPU maintaining above 60 FPS and the video shows dips to mid 40s which is what I was expecting at BL pull even in a small room. As for OBS taxing your CPU by 20% - again, I don't buy it You seem way too knowledgeable about this stuff not to set proper affinity and have OBS have 0% impact on the core running WOW.

In any case, I guess it is safe to say that as you mentioned, overclocked 2500K will be more than enough for him. I guess it is also safe to say blooldust does kills CPUs perhaps not only old ones. Your FPS drops from 120 FPS spikes at idle to 45 FPS spikes at pull. That is huge. With it being like that for 12 years now, I guess it will stay like that forever.

[Kagthul]

Conflicting reports like this is why I haven't bought the parts yet and even had to make cancels today on parts. I wish I had $1000 lying around to just buy everything and not deal with "maybes".

if you are searching for the mythical "60fps at all times always" - forget it.

People with custom loop liquid cooled CPUs in the 5Ghz range dont get a solid 60 in busy Mythics.

Its the nature of the engine.

[Lathais]

CPU is an i5-2500k which I wanted to upgrade but people said it's fine and I should just buy a heatsink and just overclock it. GPU was a GTX 560 Ti but it's... dying I believe; I've wanted to upgrade it anyways.

Is 32 necessarily overkill? I really hate when things feel clogged up and 8 hasn't been cutting it lately; I feel like doubling may not do THAT much either, so I might as well go nuts.

Unless you are doing some heavy multitasking and have 100s of tabs open in a browser or something, 8GB should be enough. It may be full, but that's because RAM can sometimes be funny in how it works. Sometimes, programs will load stuff in to RAM and never remove it, keeping it on hand just in case it's needed again. If/when you need more RAM space, it will dump this stuff, but if it does not need the space, it will just sit there. 16GB is not a bad idea though, RAM is pretty cheap right now anyway, so why not. It is overkill though. 32GB is just mega overkill.

[Evildeffy]

Thanks for following up with a video. In the meantime I did some research and came to a few conclusions, might as well share them here.

The most important thing to mention is that I was basing my FPS numbers on Archi 20m fight. At this point in the expansion it is close to all I am doing. Seeing your video made me realize that there is a reason my Archi FPS was dipping into 40s - it is set in an open space with a big view range. Having view distance on ultra is very taxing on the CPU and after lowering it for that fight I noticed a big improvement (our settings were identical btw). For comparison I joined a 30man LFR for council which is set in a small room and FPS on pull with BL was actually in the 50s. Still, a few weeks ago archi FPS went down by about 10 and I had many ppl complain about it in gchat. Reasons unknown to me.

My FPS on Archi was higher then on council due to stacking, effects and 3 mobs with massive effects.
Speaking technically due to the fact I am inside the instance with tons of mobs about where you are in an instance with no mobs or anything else being drawn you also have the advantage in amount drawn by the computer.

Now about our previous conversation, I said I don't buy your CPU maintaining above 60 FPS and the video shows dips to mid 40s which is what I was expecting at BL pull even in a small room. As for OBS taxing your CPU by 20% - again, I don't buy it You seem way too knowledgeable about this stuff not to set proper affinity and have OBS have 0% impact on the core running WOW.

Again ... older technology, I do not have QuickSync nor do I have Shadowplay and on an non-OCed i7-990X I WILL notice it regardless of if I set affinity or not.
Unless you'd prefer me to capture at so much pixellation that you couldn't read the letters if you wanted to.
Do note the fact that I have a 6 core 12 thread CPU and I should have the advantage but that -20% performance impact from capturing (to a WD RE2 7200RPM I might add) as well as 20% less IPC really stings.
Go find a Gulftown and try it.

In any case, I guess it is safe to say that as you mentioned, overclocked 2500K will be more than enough for him. I guess it is also safe to say blooldust does kills CPUs perhaps not only old ones. Your FPS drops from 120 FPS spikes at idle to 45 FPS spikes at pull. That is huge. With it being like that for 12 years now, I guess it will stay like that forever.

The point of my dips is that it is literally insignificant, out of the full 1 minute and 5 seconds with ultra settings on a non-OCed maybe 3 seconds in total at the lowest being 44.8FPS for literally 0,1 seconds and the rest is at 48 pretty much and it's not even at the BL burst only either, it's spread throughout a full minute.
That is on a non-OCed i7-990X which is capturing using CPU cycles vs. an architecture that has 20% advantage in WoW to me.
If with those settings your 3570K is dropping to high 40s during BL then you're doing something wrong or you're running 2 - 3 combat log parsing addons for no apparent reason.

Whether you buy it or not really is none of my concern, I delivered exactly what I said I would with the results, an OCed 2500K even at 4,6GHz WILL keep it above 50 - 60 even during BL and everything going nuts @ 1080p with the settings you saw in the video.
(NOTE: Before the skimmers arrive this is at ultra - any AA and shadows to low and render scale to 100%)
Because napkin math is as such: 44.8 * 1.2 = 53.7 FPS even IF you were to discount the capturing penalty at the worst possible frame point.

@Polarthief: I hope my point is driven across and you go for what was recommended, anything else really is a waste of money.

[stevenho]

My FPS on Archi was higher then on council due to stacking, effects and 3 mobs with massive effects.

Effects have 0% impact on my FPS due to the fact that the game is miles from being (decent) GPU limited. And there are 3 mobs seconds into archi pull, combined with 3 NPC so 6 total.

Speaking technically due to the fact I am inside the instance with tons of mobs about where you are in an instance with no mobs or anything else being drawn you also have the advantage in amount drawn by the computer.

As I already mentioned, I get higher FPS in 30man council than 20man archi. Lowering draw distanced improved things quite a bit too.

Again ... older technology, I do not have QuickSync nor do I have Shadowplay and on an non-OCed i7-990X I WILL notice it regardless of if I set affinity or not.

Why would you notice it if OBS used cores that wow is not using at all?

If with those settings your 3570K is dropping to high 40s during BL then you're doing something wrong or you're running 2 - 3 combat log parsing addons for no apparent reason.

I am running skada only. Which does take ~3 FPS during BL for me.

I delivered exactly what I said I would with the results

Not quite:

If you don't want to drop below 60FPS during 20 man mythic encounters you drop shadows to low (because they are useless) and AA to normal and you wouldn't notice a damn thing.

You are dipping below 60, at BL significantly.

[Evildeffy]

Effects have 0% impact on my FPS due to the fact that the game is miles from being (decent) GPU limited. And there are 3 mobs seconds into archi pull, combined with 3 NPC so 6 total.

So you're telling me effects have 0% impact at all? Go try council and see if it doesn't impact at all when Dia does her Darkness or Reap ability.
Or in the BL moment you have that priest thing you see in my video.

It impacts it quite significantly, you go ahead and try .. I'll wait here for your video.

As I already mentioned, I get higher FPS in 30man council than 20man archi. Lowering draw distanced improved things quite a bit too.

Except I'm not referring to LFR where half the raid is AFK, I'm referring to Mythic where there are more abilities and effects.

Why would you notice it if OBS used cores that wow is not using at all?

Well first off you'd have to find the CPU that's the real core and the one which is the added thread (A.K.A. HyperThread) then you'd have to follow that up by assigning affinity and lowering the core count for capturing.
This is where older technology comes into play as 20% more performance per core outright assists in encoding and gaming.
Third being that the horsepower to encode is significantly reduced thus leading to capturing crappy quality videos because the rest of the cores are running 100% and trying to process more than current day capturing standards can handle.
Need me to go on?

I am running skada only. Which does take ~3 FPS during BL for me.

Doesn't change the point does it?
A 3570K is an outright 30% boost per MHz per core to my i7-990X and you have yours overclocked to 4.7GHz.
I'd need to run my CPU @ 6.11GHz to catch up to you.

Not quite: You are dipping below 60, at BL significantly.

Most of them being moments no human can notice (0,1 sec dips without stuttering)
Accounting for the penalty of capturing and a 2500K... yes it will be as I did prove exactly what I stated.
As my VERY statement said that I was not referring to myself on this and I very much stated to 50s, given that I do indeed incur a penalty encoding video streams my statement remains correct.
If you think CPU encoding does not incur a penalty at all then I challenge you to make a video of a mythic encounter 2-fold, same people and composition, 1 recorded with your cellphone and FPS counter and 1 using OBS @ 1080p60, note NOT to use Intel's QuickSync or nVidia's Shadowplay (or AMD's sorry excuse for a capture capability with AMD Gaming Evolved APP).
You can show me then if you do or do not incur a penalty.

If you think you can notice 44.8FPS for less than 0,1 seconds and be affected by it then let me be the first to welcome you to the Super Human Race.

[Kagthul]

Effects have 0% impact on my FPS due to the fact that the game is miles from being (decent) GPU limited.

Every single particle on the screen has to have a draw call issued by the CPU first. So yeah, particle-effect heavy fights WILL cause framerate dips. Thats part of why BL hurts framerates - everyone is spamming even more particles faster.

[stevenho]

So you're telling me effects have 0% impact at all? Go try council and see if it doesn't impact at all when Dia does her Darkness or Reap ability.
Or in the BL moment you have that priest thing you see in my video.
It impacts it quite significantly, you go ahead and try .. I'll wait here for your video.

No problem.
Here is a video for you. 25 man bloodlust pull. In 20man mythic I don't dip below 60 EVER.
However, on archimonde, I dip into 40s.
I don't feel like there is a need to discuss this any further.

P.S. Lolcrap DPS and fucked up rotation due to being afk and playing while watching euro football streaming (20% CPU utilization)

P.P.S. Now that I counted them I actually run 4 log parsing things:
- skada
- MSBT
- ring explosion WA
- combustion WA

[Evildeffy]

No problem.
Here is a video for you. 25 man bloodlust pull. In 20man mythic I don't dip below 60 EVER.
However, on archimonde, I dip into 40s.
I don't feel like there is a need to discuss this any further.

So 25 man LFR vs. 20 man Mythic comparison where on this fight there's QUITE a bit more effects causing dips... good comparison there.
Also no showing of any settings whatsoever.

Come back in when you have as much effects on your screen as my video showed without half the raid being AFK and it being organized as well.

Even though with your statement furthers my point for the most part and argues against your own.

P.S. Lolcrap DPS and fucked up rotation due to being afk and playing while watching euro football streaming (20% CPU utilization)

No-one gives a fuck about lolcrap DPS in LFR... it's LFR ffs.

P.P.S. Now that I counted them I actually run 4 log parsing things:
- skada
- MSBT
- ring explosion WA
- combustion WA

MSBT is not an actual log parser, unsure of whether Ring Explosion nor Combustion WAs are either.

[stevenho]

So 25 man LFR vs. 20 man Mythic comparison where on this fight there's QUITE a bit more effects causing dips... good comparison there.
Also no showing of any settings whatsoever.

Come back in when you have as much effects on your screen as my video showed without half the raid being AFK and it being organized as well.

Heh. So now "the effects are different in 20mman vs 25 man, and mine are more taxing. Also half the raid is afk".
Cool story.

Don't know what's your problem here. You said my CPU is faster than yours. The video shows my CPU is faster than yours.
Whatever.

[Evildeffy]

Heh. So now "the effects are different in 20mman vs 25 man, and mine are more taxing. Also half the raid is afk".
Cool story.

This very statement makes me doubt you have done any Mythic raiding whatsoever that isn't boosted and you think of LFR being challenging.
The only challenging matter to LFR is finding people whom aren't complete spastics or AFK, anyone with a bit of experience knows this.

Don't know what's your problem here. You said my CPU is faster than yours. The video shows my CPU is faster than yours.
Whatever.

Correct but I'm also correcting you on your faults.
If you get dips on those settings into 40s during Archimonde where I do not with the same settings and superior CPU for WoW then you are doing something wrong.

[stevenho]

This very statement makes me doubt you have done any Mythic raiding whatsoever that isn't boosted and you think of LFR being challenging.
The only challenging matter to LFR is finding people whom aren't complete spastics or AFK, anyone with a bit of experience knows this.

Yeah. That's why I have over 520k HP in the video in my offspec fire gear aka ilvl 740. All boosted.
Please continue being "funny".

If you get dips on those settings into 40s during Archimonde where I do not with the same settings and superior CPU for WoW then you are doing something wrong.

Yeah you do, worse than on council. Just like me.
You've already proven you are talking fantasy when you said all you need to do to not dip is lower shadows and turn AA off, then we saw your 45 FPS video.

[Evildeffy]

Yeah. That's why I have over 520k HP in the video in my offspec fire gear aka ilvl 740. All boosted.
Please continue being "funny".

Having a gear level does not equal actually doing Mythics properly or knowing what an encounter brings.
You've proven this by saying effects from LFR (or Flex) are identical to Mythic.
So yes indeed I shall keep being "funny".

Yeah you do, worse than on council. Just like me.
You've already proven you are talking fantasy when you said all you need to do to not dip is lower shadows and turn AA off, then we saw your 45 FPS video.

If my video was 45 FPS (which denotes constant 45 FPS) then I must be seeing figments of my imagination when it does 60FPS.
Also funny how you keep ignoring the capturing penalty done by CPU to further your own point. (VSync enabled much during capture?)

Oh no wait ... I forgot ... I do not have capturing penalties because of mythical and magical reasons.

You've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're inept and do not know what it is you are talking about.
If you believe that you do not suffer penalties whilst CPU capturing then I honestly do not know what to tell you other than ... well nothing.

Not worth the effort.

[stevenho]

And yet you are still babbling about boosted gear, different effects on a LFR council and half raid being AFK.
What else will you come up with?
Please continue raging.

[Cilraaz]

How about instead of turning the thread into a dick measuring contest, we actually focus on helping the OP?

[Polarthief]

How about instead of turning the thread into a dick measuring contest, we actually focus on helping the OP?

Nah it's fine. I've done a lot of thinking and I've ended up going with building Unicorn for this month (with some modifications to lower the price) and to just slap in a new, weak, GPU in my current build and putting that in the family room for guests/family because I'm tired of using my laptop on it instead.

Thank you everyone, everything's pretty much resolved at this point.

[Franklinhatchet]

It very much depends on what you're doing, and which OS you're running. Someone who has one window open at a time for browsing or writing a document may be able to get by with 2GB on Windows XP. They will have very different requirements than someone running a server OS supporting hundreds of users or dozens of virtual machines.