Queue: "If I can't click 1 button, I won't participate"

[Tadkins]

I just have something against having ALL content queueable.

Then you're in luck, not all content is queuable.

[Eleccybubb]

I realize at this point i'm replying to blatant trolling, but thats okay, as I said before I have nothing against a queue system. I just have something against having ALL content queueable.

How about this, Blizzard creates content designed for a queue system, and they also create content not in a random queue system? Best of both worlds. Everyone's happy. Do you agree?

Those who want the convenience of clicking a button, being anti-social to get loot can, those who want to be rewarded for putting in more effort than just click a button can.

Then do Mythic dungeons and Normal or higher raids then. Problem solved. BG's have had a queue since they were implemented they just made it more quality of life by not making you trek to a city to talk to 1 guy. Arenas are designed with the queue system in mind since you go as a premade.

[Jaylock]

Then do Mythic dungeons and Normal or higher raids then. Problem solved. BG's have had a queue since they were implemented they just made it more quality of life by not making you trek to a city to talk to 1 guy. Arenas are designed with the queue system in mind since you go as a premade.

I already do those. And In the new Blizzard model, 2 of the 10 dungeons will be mythic and mythic+ only, with increased rewards. I believe this is a great step in the right direction in bringing more social aspects back to the game. Having more content not on the random queue is a good compromise as long as they continue to also have content that IS on the queue system.

[Eleccybubb]

I already do those. And In the new Blizzard model, 2 of the 10 dungeons will be mythic and mythic+ only, with increased rewards. I believe this is a great step in the right direction in bringing more social aspects back to the game. Having more content not on the random queue is a good compromise as long as they continue to also have content that IS on the queue system.

Well there you go then. You have content for you that doesn't require 1 click of a button. Also no. All dungeons are Mythic and Mythic plus just those 2 have increased rewards due to their gating. You have loads of content right now that doesn't require it as well.

[Tyrealius]

Maybe the real detriment is the cross-realm thing?

That's my main issue. I mean It was never great when you saw someone jump in and steal the Ore or Herb that you'd went for but were unable to get due to there being a Mob standing on it. But at least when they took it the items were being fed back into your own economy.

Whereas now it could be anyone from your battlegroup and 9 times out of 10 it most certainly is and not from your own server. So rather than the ore be taken, sold or crafted or whatever and then fed back through to benefit your realm it's going towards someone elses. And that bothers me quite a bit.

[Pull My Finger]

I realize at this point i'm replying to blatant trolling

First good joke you made all day!

How about this, Blizzard creates content designed for a queue system, and they also create content not in a random queue system? Best of both worlds. Everyone's happy. Do you agree?

Isn't that, like, how it already is?

As long as the non-queueable content is the crappy one like mythic raids and shit like that, sure, that's fine.That's how it's been all this time. Right now at the moment, Blizzard is having a little lapse of judgement, regarding those two 5-mans in Legion, but that'll sort itself out. It's just one of those blunders they sometimes stumble into and subsequently correct when the community straightens them out (flying, the recent Water Strider back-and-forth, etc.).

Anyways: If you were an actual, genuine person, I would say there's something seriously wrong with your perception of reality, but we both know that you're just plain lying. Of course you have problem with the queue system. It makes you feel left behind, or whatever. Why else would you troll, oh sorry I meant why would you even start this whole discussion? Since the reality of the matter is exactly what you claim you'd be happy with.

Those who want the convenience of clicking a button, being anti-social to get loot can, those who want to be rewarded for putting in more effort than just click a button can.

Yeah, I think it's a good system too. There's just people who have a certain type of anxiety meeting unknown people, can't handle changes in routine, need everything to play out exactly in the same manner every time etc. There's a medical term for that condition. And people like that shouldn't be left out of the game, so sure, give these players a venue where they can create their safe spaces with invariable routines and familiar faces and let them take it slow. No need to rush head-on in the randomness of the world out there that's just a terrifying click away. Just because someone's a bit "different" it doesn't mean they're not welcome.

[Pizzakid2093]

I really hope all the people mad about something like this just leave the game. I really don't care if WoW was just a few thousand people and one server, at least there would be a community

[Sansnom]

I realize at this point i'm replying to blatant trolling, but thats okay, as I said before I have nothing against a queue system. I just have something against having ALL content queueable.

Given the type of the threads you create, you like starting troll threads.

How about this, Blizzard creates content designed for a queue system, and they also create content not in a random queue system? Best of both worlds. Everyone's happy. Do you agree?
.

It is already is. But you are still not happy.

[Eleccybubb]

I really hope all the people mad about something like this just leave the game. I really don't care if WoW was just a few thousand people and one server, at least there would be a community

Well it would be shut down at that point.

[Thage]

Because I don't have "time" to form a group.

Because I don't want some raid leader to ask for unrealistic requirements.

Those type of excuses always made me lol.

Create your own group you lazy casual whiners!

Creating a group usually comes with the unspoken assumption that the player creating the group is experienced with the dungeon or raid in question, or a tank (who is also generally assumed to be experienced with the dungeon or raid in question). When neither is true, building a group in the group finder, even with at-level item level requirements, tends to become an uphill struggle, and typically more than the average player who just wants to knock out a few dungeons for the night is able to handle.

Furthermore, queueing was introduced in the first place to help players who play at non-peak hours, or on small servers, cut down on the wait time for trying to find a group (something the Group Finder itself doesn't do nearly as much to help, because of the community's insular nature and rapidly-inflating requirements from group leaders). More often than not, casual players tend to stick to queued content because their access isn't reliant on community expectations, but their ability to meet the baked-in requirements (for example, an item level suggesting you're geared up enough to meaningfully contribute to taking down the bosses, or clearing Silver PG to demonstrate a baseline level of ability).

I'm not arguing for, nor is anyone I know, queueable Mythic. Heroic as it's currently aimed in Legion is at a pretty good spot in terms of taking a little effort from the average matchmade group while being forgiving enough to let an inexperienced tank lead an inexperienced group through things with a reasonable chance of success. I'm saying that the Suramar dungeons should be queueable on Heroic, and Mythic should both come with an attunement questline and additional rewards (for example, a better chance of Titanforged loot and unique cosmetic rewards) that aren't available for the queued content. That tends to work pretty well in terms of keeping the raiding playerbase at roughly the same numbers even at a time when subscriptions are lower than they were in the game's launch state.

[Tadkins]

Well it would be shut down at that point.

I dunno, Everquest is still going. xD

[Jaylock]

It is already is. But you are still not happy.

No its not. Currently all content is queueable. In legion, 8/10 dungeons will be queueable, and 2 wont be. A step in the right direction.

[Eleccybubb]

No its not. Currently all content is queueable. In legion, 8/10 dungeons will be queueable, and 2 wont be. A step in the right direction.

Again no it is not. You cannot queue for Normal, Heroic or Mythic raiding or Mythic dungeons. Try harder next time. Oh and Rated Battlegrounds sort of since it requires actually making the group first.

[Alydael]

Im genuinely curious about this mentality. The whole: "If a queue is not available for me, I won't participate"...

Why even play an MMO if that is the type of game you want?

I don't understand how people have a desire to play WoW or any other MMO, but don't want to interact with other players to get stuff done in the game, or to participate in content in a game. Wasn't the whole premise of an MMO that you were going to be expected to interact with other players to play the game optimally, as the genre (MMO) suggests?

I'd argue that the whole game doesn't have to be Queueable. The game can still be plenty accessible to all types of players with parts of it not available to be queued into.

People who have this mentality, please help me understand why you feel this way? Why does the game have to revolve around your wants and desires of it being a complete queue fest?

People who don't feel this way, what is your argument for having all types of content, specifically content that is unable to be queued for?

It really has nothing to do with that.... It has to do with the people that remember spending a long time (an hour or so) in trade looking for a tank, etc. Only to never find one and give up after wasting all that time. Or: finding one after an hour going to the dungeon, wiping a couple of times- only to have someone leave. Then you have to port back to town, spam trade again, etc. Then someone else leaves because spamming trade is taking too long.

Are you surprised or can you blame people that want a que?

Personally, I think all content should be queable. But,there should be ilevel requirements, attunements and stricter penalties for leaving the group.

Remember: if you take the que away- you take away someone's ability to que. But if you have a que, that does not prevent you from forming a pre made group (and people do it all the time), if you want to spam trade (and you feel that spamming trade is somehow "social").

[shimerra]

It really has nothing to do with that.... It has to do with the people that remember spending a long time (an hour or so) in trade looking for a tank, etc. Only to never find one and give up after wasting all that time. Or: finding one after an hour going to the dungeon, wiping a couple of times- only to have someone leave. Then you have to port back to town, spam trade again, etc. Then someone else leaves because spamming trade is taking too long.

Are you surprised or can you blame people that want a que?

I remember one time in vanilla I spent 4 hours looking for people to do sunken temple. And i was the mother fucking tank. then after forming the group it took another 40min for everyone to get their ass to the dungeon.

Jaylock and his ilk live in a fantasy world where having to spam for groups for hours made them magical. If you don't talk to people in your groups in LFD it's because you're just as much of an anti-social ass as you think everyone else. I had plenty of groups where other than telling people what marks meant what CC there was ZERO communication well before LFD came into play. In fact it was usually the majority. Hell even difficult heroics were removed before LFD come out and that was my main issue with 5 mans. Wrath heroics were a joke until the ICC ones which even then weren't too bad compared to TBC. Now we have difficult 5 mans for those who want them and queable mid-low difficulty content for the rest. What the hell is the issue?

[Thage]

Personally, I think all content should be queable. But,there should be ilevel requirements, attunements and stricter penalties for leaving the group.

These all sound pretty reasonable, but the thing about attunements (even something as simple as "find the entrance" is that players gamed the system in early Cata by only attuning to dungeons that had desirable loot, letting them spam-queue for quick gearing and get the random dungeon bonuses on top of it, rather than the random bonus being there to encourage rolling the dice.

If attuning were handled in a way that it gave, say, an extra chance for Titanforged loot, or extra rep gains in that dungeon on Heroic and Mythic, that would be a pretty neat idea I'd like to see tested out. Offering, say, a decent trinket, ring, or necklace around the same base ilvl of the associated dungeon for finishing the attunement chain (with the usual applicable chances for ilvl boosts on acquisition) would also keep them optional but desirable.

There also needs to be some re-addressing for the vote-kick system and ditching out midway through, making it more undesirable to troll groups and making getting kicked hurt more while offering some protection against being kicked for, say, queueing in without a full tier set (actionable under trolling, or somesuch).

[bergmann620]

Im genuinely curious about this mentality. The whole: "If a queue is not available for me, I won't participate"...

Why even play an MMO if that is the type of game you want?

I don't understand how people have a desire to play WoW or any other MMO, but don't want to interact with other players to get stuff done in the game, or to participate in content in a game. Wasn't the whole premise of an MMO that you were going to be expected to interact with other players to play the game optimally, as the genre (MMO) suggests?

I'd argue that the whole game doesn't have to be Queueable. The game can still be plenty accessible to all types of players with parts of it not available to be queued into.

People who have this mentality, please help me understand why you feel this way? Why does the game have to revolve around your wants and desires of it being a complete queue fest?

People who don't feel this way, what is your argument for having all types of content, specifically content that is unable to be queued for?

I've been playing for 12 years now.

In that time, we've gone from "an hour to put a group together, an hour to get to the dungeon, and an hour to run the dungeon", to "queue up and run a dungeon".

We've gone from "join a guild, scheduling 3-4 4-5 hours raid nights, waiting on a waitlist for a raid invite (after whatever attunements), wiping it up for hours, each wipe costing us 20 minutes while we get everyone back, apply 5-minute pally buffs, etc, having a guy wait out of combat to rez after the wipe, getting caught in trash respawns, and generally not getting much out of it, and then manually tracking DKP in a notebook when we did", to "join a queue, get dropped into a raid, wipe or not wipe, mass rez, go again and kill it."

There are some things to be missed... But we're too big of douchebags now to really go back. If the zone drops iLevel 500 gear, we want everyone that joins the group to be iLevel 600. We expect everyone to know every fight and have all 25 people be top DPS or /kick... You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

And honestly... While there are some things I'd like to see tweaked, I turn 36 in a few days. I refuse to schedule nights to play a video game. If I can't log in on a Tuesday night and make a little progress without making a reservation, I'll stick to Diablo/Overwatch/Heroes and whatever catches my eye on the console.

[zeropeorth]

Because I don't have "time" to form a group.

Because I don't want some raid leader to ask for unrealistic requirements.

Those type of excuses always made me lol.

Create your own group you lazy casual whiners!

They give you their reasons then you criticize them for it?

There are many who don't want to spend 30-90 minutes doing the old lfg in chat method. They may play at off times on a near dead server. They may have many experiences with groups that require achievements and 30+ ilvl higher than what drops.

I'm more confused why people like you feel the need to take something away. You can still form your own group, and go to the entrance now. They didn't remove entrances or summoning stones. The choice is yours.

Aside from people on dead servers and/or playing on off peak times, there are those who do stuff in queue, being much more productive with their time. Instead of wasting that 30 minutes forming a group, they play the game. It is dishonest to claim these people only want to click one button, it is a lie to make a false argument.

Yes, server communities were different back in the day, but the bad attitude is the real problem, not lfg. I had no problems finding groups, but I've also ran into plenty of shitty people then too, ofc you blacklisted them and spread the word to others so they knew what to expect, but not everyone is as social or good at communication and blizzard makes this game for millions, which includes socially awkward and quiet types, that does not mean they are bad players, nor is the game only about socialization, this is an rpg first, without the lore and character building, there is no game to play with others.

Swtor was reamed by wow players for not having lfg at launch, that makes this vocal minority issue with lfg seem that much more silly to me. Lfg is a standard now for mmos, because you can't have full servers 24/7, and cross realm dungeoneering saves the game from losing subs of people who can only play on off peak times and saves people from having to piss away money for server transfers just because their realm is dead.

It doesn't hurt you. Form a group in your guild and mount up and head to your content, enjoy the game and the world, and let others enjoy it the way they do. Both ways are the correct way to play for each side.

[Alydael]

These all sound pretty reasonable, but the thing about attunements (even something as simple as "find the entrance" is that players gamed the system in early Cata by only attuning to dungeons that had desirable loot, letting them spam-queue for quick gearing and get the random dungeon bonuses on top of it, rather than the random bonus being there to encourage rolling the dice.

If attuning were handled in a way that it gave, say, an extra chance for Titanforged loot, or extra rep gains in that dungeon on Heroic and Mythic, that would be a pretty neat idea I'd like to see tested out. Offering, say, a decent trinket, ring, or necklace around the same base ilvl of the associated dungeon for finishing the attunement chain (with the usual applicable chances for ilvl boosts on acquisition) would also keep them optional but desirable.

There also needs to be some re-addressing for the vote-kick system and ditching out midway through, making it more undesirable to troll groups and making getting kicked hurt more while offering some protection against being kicked for, say, queueing in without a full tier set (actionable under trolling, or somesuch).

Well there is an easy fix for gaming the system. I also agree that the vote-kick system and the ditching out midway need to be looked at and reworked. Blizzard has stated that they have "bad luck" preventative systems in place. They could use those systems to penalize ditchers. Ditch the group for no good reason or just trolling: -2% to loot rolls (all rolls: quests, raids, world bosses etc) for a week (and it stacks). Vote kick should only be for players that are afk more than 5 mins, multiple afks in one run, just incredibly underpreforming or trolling.

- - - Updated - - -

Im genuinely curious about this mentality. The whole: "If a queue is not available for me, I won't participate"...

Why even play an MMO if that is the type of game you want?

I don't understand how people have a desire to play WoW or any other MMO, but don't want to interact with other players to get stuff done in the game, or to participate in content in a game. Wasn't the whole premise of an MMO that you were going to be expected to interact with other players to play the game optimally, as the genre (MMO) suggests?

I'd argue that the whole game doesn't have to be Queueable. The game can still be plenty accessible to all types of players with parts of it not available to be queued into.

People who have this mentality, please help me understand why you feel this way? Why does the game have to revolve around your wants and desires of it being a complete queue fest?

People who don't feel this way, what is your argument for having all types of content, specifically content that is unable to be queued for?

Why is a que anti-social? I have met a great number of friends and cool ppls in lfr and lfg.....

[Tadkins]

They give you their reasons then you criticize them for it?

There are many who don't want to spend 30-90 minutes doing the old lfg in chat method. They may play at off times on a near dead server. They may have many experiences with groups that require achievements and 30+ ilvl higher than what drops.

I'm more confused why people like you feel the need to take something away. You can still form your own group, and go to the entrance now. They didn't remove entrances or summoning stones. The choice is yours.

Aside from people on dead servers and/or playing on off peak times, there are those who do stuff in queue, being much more productive with their time. Instead of wasting that 30 minutes forming a group, they play the game. It is dishonest to claim these people only want to click one button, it is a lie to make a false argument.

Yes, server communities were different back in the day, but the bad attitude is the real problem, not lfg. I had no problems finding groups, but I've also ran into plenty of shitty people then too, ofc you blacklisted them and spread the word to others so they knew what to expect, but not everyone is as social or good at communication and blizzard makes this game for millions, which includes socially awkward and quiet types, that does not mean they are bad players, nor is the game only about socialization, this is an rpg first, without the lore and character building, there is no game to play with others.

Great post, thank you.

This is the point I try to make. I didn't have many friends back then and had a hard time getting groups, but I wasn't a bad player. I was just one that didn't stand out very much. It also didn't help that I just happened to be a popular class during Vanilla and BC (rogue), which also made it harder to get groups.