[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Faroth]

To be absolutely blunt: It's a SUBSCRIPTION MMO.
They shouldn't even have a cash shop since they already get 120€ + expansion money from us per year.

I do hope that they put the items into the shop permanently, but I think this will be akin to Blizzcon items. Limited etc.

I just hope that if they ever do an Aerith equip I don't have to pay for that one.
Knowing my luck, will probably be tied to ordering a certain console game remake. >.<

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Don't worry, I got the sarcasm.

Though technically speaking, such sets don't end up in the inventory but rather in the weird "speshil™ item" box, right?

Not nearly enough items go in the speshil item box....

The Amazon promo items? The maid, butler, and masks? None of it goes in there.

Though they usually add such things in a patch, so maybe in 3.35 or 3.4 they'll go in there. I also wouldn't mind if they went to a glamour tab like other MMOs if the method of registering the item for use was to place it in the armoire. I don't actually want EVERY item available because I don't want to have to go through a list including things I hate.

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As someone who started playing less than a month ago, I think forcing new players (or even alt characters, if you have those for some reason) to complete all the level 50 MSQ before moving onto the relevant expansion content is overkill. It should remain an optional path, but not gate you from going to Heavensward content for 100ish quests.

Wouldn't you go straight to a situation of...
"What's the big deal about Ishgard?"
"Who is this Alphinaud guy?"
"Who is Y'shtola?"
"What are the Scions?"
"Why does this guy in black robes have a mask on? What the F is an Ascian?"

That's the difference between other MMOs and story driven MMOs. In WoW, it's easy to do that because, honestly, the story is partially irrelevant and anything prior to right now is 100% completely pointless and has no bearing on the story.

I think the best middle ground is to streamline the MSQ a bit further in certain specific points.

[Graeham]

I mean, I do want to give them the benefit of the doubt but Yoshida has a habit of praising WoW and seeking to emulate it - which isn't necessarily a bad thing but at the same time I - and many others, no doubt - turned their backs upon WoW due to how easily content became irrelevant in it.

FFXIV also has completely different factors to consider. Unlike in WoW a character can be leveled as multiple classes which erodes away much of the need for fussing to have alts catch up. In FFXIV alts are completely optional.

[Anzaman]

That's the difference between other MMOs and story driven MMOs. In WoW, it's easy to do that because, honestly, the story is partially irrelevant and anything prior to right now is 100% completely pointless and has no bearing on the story.

Creates character -> buys potion to skip everything -> queues to newest trial:
"Why am I fighting against him?"

[Graeham]

As someone who started playing less than a month ago, I think forcing new players (or even alt characters, if you have those for some reason) to complete all the level 50 MSQ before moving onto the relevant expansion content is overkill. It should remain an optional path, but not gate you from going to Heavensward content for 100ish quests.

If you're new to the game then everything is fresh - you can soak up the story, take the time to explore and see for yourself what the game has to offer, meet interesting characters and gradually get stronger and more influential. What are you rushing towards? The fabled 'end game'? At that point you're just doing much of the same things over and over again - but at least during the leveling process you're unlocking things and given the way the sync system works new and old players alike are thrown into content together. Unlike with other MMO's where old content is neglected and rarely relevant after new content arrives.

[Kantalope]

Wouldn't you go straight to a situation of...
"What's the big deal about Ishgard?"
"Who is this Alphinaud guy?"
"Who is Y'shtola?"
"What are the Scions?"
"Why does this guy in black robes have a mask on? What the F is an Ascian?"

That's the difference between other MMOs and story driven MMOs. In WoW, it's easy to do that because, honestly, the story is partially irrelevant and anything prior to right now is 100% completely pointless and has no bearing on the story.

I think the best middle ground is to streamline the MSQ a bit further in certain specific points.

Alphinaud and Y'shtola are introduced far earlier than the 2.1 MSQ requirements, as are the Scions and Ascians. I'm not for or against the leveling boost, I wouldn't use it, and especially not on my first class/character. A lot of the Ishgard stuff doesn't unravel until later in the 50 quests, but we are on the internet, it would be easy to find out why we're there if you were so curious about the story. I just think that forcing someone to do 100+ quests for 4k xp each before you can even progress into the expansion you bought is too much. I'm already done with it, so it's not something I hope they do in order to make it easier for me at present, but it would be nice to see the curve of getting into the game where everyone else is a bit less steep.

[Granyala]

I also wouldn't mind if they went to a glamour tab like other MMOs if the method of registering the item for use was to place it in the armoire. I don't actually want EVERY item available because I don't want to have to go through a list including things I hate.

Every item you loot gets made available.
Then add custom filter lists and favorites to the UI.

[Faroth]

Alphinaud and Y'shtola are introduced far earlier than the 2.1 MSQ requirements, as are the Scions and Ascians. I'm not for or against the leveling boost, I wouldn't use it, and especially not on my first class/character. A lot of the Ishgard stuff doesn't unravel until later in the 50 quests, but we are on the internet, it would be easy to find out why we're there if you were so curious about the story. I just think that forcing someone to do 100+ quests for 4k xp each before you can even progress into the expansion you bought is too much. I'm already done with it, so it's not something I hope they do in order to make it easier for me at present, but it would be nice to see the curve of getting into the game where everyone else is a bit less steep.

Well, again, 20-50 takes about... 2 weeks time while simultaneously doing beast tribe quests and roulettes and Alexander runs on another character each day. If a new player is just doing MSQ, it takes no time at all and the MSQ takes you straight through 1 to 50. Streamlining would make the post 50 MSQ a bit quicker and I'm sure Heavensward will be adjusted so the MSQ is all you need to get to 60. Plus each patch in Heavensward is about 2 hours max of MSQ content.

"You can look it up if you're curious" is, again, the WoW approach, which is the approach of "the story doesn't matter, you can just ignore it." FFXIV has grabbed a large player base of Final Fantasy fans and has drawn in a lot of MMO players who have loved the way they've given a deeper, meaningful story. It caters to a demographic that's interested in that. By tossing it aside and making it "if you care, I guess you can do it" you invite FFXIV to become WoW in every sense. As someone else said, a lot of players moved to FFXIV because WoW had become disappointing. I think taking away XIV's strongest unique aspect would water it down to the same disappointment.

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Every item you loot gets made available.
Then add custom filter lists and favorites to the UI.

Bleh.

I'd rather choose what I want available and give everyone else the choice of doing the same rather than info dumping everything into a pile for you to sort out one by one later.

[Katchii]

To be absolutely blunt: It's a SUBSCRIPTION MMO.
They shouldn't even have a cash shop since they already get 120€ + expansion money from us per year.

Your subscription is giving you all the value you're already paying for, any additional items they add are icing on the cake. Cash Shop items are extra goodies. I understand the sentiment that you're paying a sub, and should therefore have access to everything that is implemented in the game your subbing to. Many times though, these specialty items take a little extra time to create than some of the items implemented in the game for everyone (sometimes not), and can sometimes be aimed at smaller audiences so charging that smaller audience for these niche items is a good way to recoup the cost of creating them. Not always the case, but the idea is the same.

I don't mind it, some people do. As long as the cash shop items stay strictly cosmetic, I don't care.

[Kazgrel]

It's interesting to me since Yoshida seems to be looking at it in an... interesting way. It sounds, to me at least, like he's debating the idea of a level boost and having parts of 4.0 accessible, but the MSQ still requiring to be played to continue it. It sounds like they're looking for a way for new and returning players to play with friends, but aren't planning on disregarding the importance of playing through the story.

For me, I thought the xp boost worked fine. They could go back and trim out some MSQ quests that were mostly just filler to streamline them a bit, but I don't like the idea of insta-boost either.



It took me a couple of weeks of side play to get my alt from 20 to 50 doing nothing but MSQ. I was still doing stuff on my main. (And I'm not full blown crazy. I just had an idea for this alt's private chambers and really wanted to design/make it. So I'm crazy, but not "keep 2 characters ongoing" crazy).



Well, I was being a bit tongue in cheek. That's the song from the end of Monty Python's Life of Brian. They sing it while hanging from being crucified. >_>



I like one side of it. I like that there are one time events or that holiday gear actually changes year to year and if you're playing, you can get it by playing. But if you missed it and want it later, it's typically added to the shop and you can still get it.

I don't terribly mind the occasional mount or the glamour outfits since they're solely cosmetic, but I kind of wish there was *some* method of potential acquisition in-game, even if it was extremely rare and untradeable map drops or something.

Magitek recolors? I don't mind at all. It's just a repaint.
Old items and emotes that were from time limited events, I don't mind. That's a nice way of letting new players still have some way of accessing them and they're typically not that important.
Glamour sets? I...understand them being just cosmetic, but kinda wish they had a limited time method of game acquisition or an extremely rare chance of getting them in-game.
Unique minions and mounts? Same thing. They're just cosmetic, but I would like a rare or time limited ability to get them before they're on the cash shop.



I didn't think so. They showed off the Carbuncle plushes on live letter. They showed off the Postmoogle on live letter. They didn't spend all that much time showing off Cait Sith and my stream died like 5 minutes before they wrapped up and they barely mentioned the Moogle house shoes. Plus they didn't have all that much to discuss since they're holding their cards for Fan Fest in 4 months.

Regarding the cash shop sales, that is a reasonable idea as to how to go about using it, for seasonal items in the event a new player starts now but wanted this really cool Santa hat or whatever that was only available in-game via a quest.

I'd like it to go a step further. Have some sort of way to obtain these cash shop items by actually playing the game. It's one of the strongest points about Guild Wars 2's cash shop...you can buy literally everything from it via in-game gold if you are determined enough.

As for the alt leveling, while I do see it as a bit of crazy, there is method to the madness, which has been pointed out in this thread/forum at various points as well as elsewhere. So no judging from me.

Heck, my RL friend who plays thinks I'm crazy as hell just for having started a second anima weapon.

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Your subscription is giving you all the value you're already paying for, any additional items they add are icing on the cake. Cash Shop items are extra goodies. I understand the sentiment that you're paying a sub, and should therefore have access to everything that is implemented in the game your subbing to. Many times though, these specialty items take a little extra time to create than some of the items implemented in the game for everyone (sometimes not), and can sometimes be aimed at smaller audiences so charging that smaller audience for these niche items is a good way to recoup the cost of creating them. Not always the case, but the idea is the same.

I don't mind it, some people do. As long as the cash shop items stay strictly cosmetic, I don't care.

I actually agree with Gran on this particular issue, but it's as you said, if it isn't stuff that gives clear legit advantages in terms of gameplay, it's not as big a foul.

We can thank Acti-Blizzard for kicking that door down (having a subscription MMO with a cash shop). Unless someone is aware of another MMO that pull that off prior to WoW.

[Faroth]

As for the alt leveling, while I do see it as a bit of crazy, there is method to the madness, which has been pointed out in this thread/forum at various points as well as elsewhere. So no judging from me.

Heck, my RL friend who plays thinks I'm crazy as hell just for having started a second anima weapon.

I have a friend who has 3 alts that he keeps at max gear level, but grumps that he hasn't done Hildebrand at all in 3.0 or that I'm progressing the current stage of relic.

.....and all 3 alts are primarily geared as tanks. >_>

[Katchii]

I actually agree with Gran on this particular issue, but it's as you said, if it isn't stuff that gives clear legit advantages in terms of gameplay, it's not as big a foul.

We can thank Acti-Blizzard for kicking that door down (having a subscription MMO with a cash shop). Unless someone is aware of another MMO that pull that off prior to WoW.

I don't disagree with Gran either, I just don't find it to be a big deal. I would rather everything be part of the sub, but unfortunately that ship has sailed apparently so we have to deal with what we have now, and in it's current implementation I can't find anything wrong with it except that I don't get these items as part of my sub, but I can live with that.

[Kazgrel]

I have a friend who has 3 alts that he keeps at max gear level, but grumps that he hasn't done Hildebrand at all in 3.0 or that I'm progressing the current stage of relic.

.....and all 3 alts are primarily geared as tanks. >_>

...and we have a winner. o.o

Then again, I have all 3 tanks at same ilvl currently, but that'll change as I work on the DRK weapon (once BLM is done). Not to mention that's on a single character. To grind out lore on 3 different characters? Whole lotta nope.

[Granyala]

Your subscription is giving you all the value you're already paying for, any additional items they add are icing on the cake. Cash Shop items are extra goodies. I understand the sentiment that you're paying a sub, and should therefore have access to everything that is implemented in the game your subbing to. Many times though, these specialty items take a little extra time to create than some of the items implemented in the game for everyone (sometimes not), and can sometimes be aimed at smaller audiences so charging that smaller audience for these niche items is a good way to recoup the cost of creating them. Not always the case, but the idea is the same.

Yeah what do I expect.
This 2016, people are indoctrinated enough to think that day-0 DLCs are totally A-OK.
People are deluded. They don't see that companies are double-milking them and they don't want to see it. (Not specifically directed at you)

Maybe this is just me being a stingy old bastard, but I don't like to pay twice for the same product. Yes Items such cash shop mounts are part of the product I already pay for.

That being said: I do get the economic point of such promotions. They want to sell virtual stream tickets, so they bundle popular stuff to coerce people to pay for sth. they could watch on YT for free a day later.

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To grind out lore on 3 different characters? Whole lotta nope.

:O
I can barely keep up capping on one char.

[Kazgrel]

Yeah what do I expect.
This 2016, people are indoctrinated enough to think that day-0 DLCs are totally A-OK.
People are deluded. They don't see that companies are double-milking them and they don't want to see it. (Not specifically directed at you)

Maybe this is just me being a stingy old bastard, but I don't like to pay twice for the same product. Yes Items such cash shop mounts are part of the product I already pay for.

That being said: I do get the economic point of such promotions. They want to sell virtual stream tickets, so they bundle popular stuff to coerce people to pay for sth. they could watch on YT for free a day later.

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:O
I can barely keep up capping on one char.

I never thought of any of the wow cash shop mounts as something I had already paid for, even having paid sub fee for months/years prior.

At least with this game, though, you actually do get stuff from having subbed for specific amounts of time. I'd like to see them continue to flesh that out (since a lot of the sub duration rewards are from the first 12 months...beyond that, they slow down significanly).

Yeah, capping lore each week on one toon is more than enough, even though I probably do enough roulettes to cap lore twice over per week (which is a result of eso/poetic farming for this stinking anima).

[Eleccybubb]

This is what I say to a level boost in FF14. Fuck no. Introduce a couple more XP items instead because even with buffed xp in this it doesn't really devalue leveling that badly.

[Saradain]

This is what I say to a level boost in FF14. Fuck no. Introduce a couple more XP items instead because even with buffed xp in this it doesn't really devalue leveling that badly.

I'd rather see combat class levequests giving as nice exp as gathering/crafting leves do - I simply weep at the thought of wanting to level a MNK but not wanting to go through Coerthas, Northern Thanalan...Heavensward FATEs again ;_;

[Nasriel]

Your subscription is giving you all the value you're already paying for, any additional items they add are icing on the cake. Cash Shop items are extra goodies. I understand the sentiment that you're paying a sub, and should therefore have access to everything that is implemented in the game your subbing to. Many times though, these specialty items take a little extra time to create than some of the items implemented in the game for everyone (sometimes not), and can sometimes be aimed at smaller audiences so charging that smaller audience for these niche items is a good way to recoup the cost of creating them. Not always the case, but the idea is the same.

I don't mind it, some people do. As long as the cash shop items stay strictly cosmetic, I don't care.

I don't get why people hate the cash shop. I wish people would get over the entitlement. You pay a sub to be able to play the game. It does not entitle you to EVERYTHING.

Kinda like your car, you pay for it sure but does it mean you get all the bells and whistles? NO! You want leather seats, sunroof or something extra? does the car company give it to you free just because you paid for the car? NO! you have to pay for it!

Same as this. You pay to play the game. You do not pay to get extra things like the white Magitek mount or Minfillas attire/hairstyle. You want the extras? you have to buy it.

I have absolutely no issues with the cash shop at all. I fully support it. You are NOT forced to buy ANYTHING from the cash shop. It's all purely cosmetic. The only time i'd have an issue with cash shop is if it started selling things that gave you an advantage ingame such as purchasing extra levels to push you over level cap, extra strong gear etc etc.

[Granyala]

I'd rather see combat class levequests giving as nice exp as gathering/crafting leves do - I simply weep at the thought of wanting to level a MNK but not wanting to go through Coerthas, Northern Thanalan...Heavensward FATEs again ;_;

I level all my classes through random low level dungeons.
It takes a long time, but I avoid all the retarded FATE grinds.

I never thought of any of the wow cash shop mounts as something I had already paid for

You should.
Items don't design themselves and the time they take to design an item for the cash shop is time taken away from designing something for the actual game.

Ofc there might be some overlap if the artist has nothing to do because he waits for other departments, but I doubt it. Just look at WoW: what always turns out to be the bottle neck in terms of manpower?

Art designers.

I don't get why people hate the cash shop. I wish people would get over the entitlement. You pay a sub to be able to play the game. It does not entitle you to EVERYTHING.

It should.
We are NOT talking HARDWARE that has an actual value to it here. We are talking about virtual items, whose only value is in the time it takes the DEVs to create them.

If you can't see how companies are double dipping by asking a subscription and having micro transactions, you must be blind.
Granted, FF didn't go to the extremes Blizzard did by implementing lame recolor after recolor in game and then putting the flashy and unique stuff in the store, but still, cash shops are kinda lame. I rather play the game for the rewards than shell out RL currency in order to get instant gratification. But I guess that's what the wealthy youths want today.

[Nasriel]

If you can't see how companies are double dipping by asking a subscription and having micro transactions, you must be blind.
Granted, FF didn't go to the extremes Blizzard did by implementing lame recolor after recolor in game and then putting the flashy and unique stuff in the store, but still, cash shops are kinda lame. I rather play the game for the rewards than shell out RL currency in order to get instant gratification. But I guess that's what the wealthy youths want today.

But it's not double dipping. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY THE ITEMS. That's the whole point! Your game is not crippled because you didn't buy that outfit, you aren't locked out of dungeons or raids because you didn't purchase the mount.

I would fully agree if you had to buy cash shop items to unlock dungeons/raids and stuff you need to be able to level/progress MSQ but it's not. It's all purely fun stuff you do not need.

[Granyala]

But it's not double dipping. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY THE ITEMS.

Ofc not. But look at it this way:

What would be preferable to the player:
- using DEV time to create a cash shop mount to sell for $$$ (whether that money gets reinvested into the game or funneled into other projects is anyones guess)
- using that DEV time to create sth that adds to the actual gameplay, including unique rewards that are granted by playing, not by paying.

Take Yunas equipment for instance: What would be better? Yunas EQ in the cash shop or a FF-X crossover event that rewards the outfit?
The one adds gameplay. The other is merely a quick cashgrab.