Queue: "If I can't click 1 button, I won't participate"

[bergmann620]

but not everyone is as social or good at communication and blizzard makes this game for millions, which includes socially awkward and quiet types, that does not mean they are bad players, nor is the game only about socialization, this is an rpg first, without the lore and character building, there is no game to play with others.

A lot of people that complain about queue's and casuals and whatnot have shitty real-lives, and they compensate by trying to be better than people in games like WoW.

If you derive your self-worth from real life and you simply play video games for fun, you're going to have a hard time communicating with those folks.

The social aspects of the game, along with the dozens of hours a week you need to be successful in old-school WoW are the low-hanging fruit for these sorts of trolls to go after in order to prove how much better they are as people.

[Tadkins]

The social aspects of the game, along with the dozens of hours a week you need to be successful in old-school WoW are the low-hanging fruit for these sorts of trolls to go after in order to prove how much better they are as people.

And in the end, even if they proved they were good at a video game, they were still pretty terrible as people.

[MoanaLisa]

No, it just means they don't want to continually go over learning curves with people who haven't cleared the content. They already overcome the learning curve once, why would they continually put themselves through wipes with nubs who dont know the encounters?

Well, that's fine. Except that one of the primary ways of learning content is to queue for it. So nice Catch-22 for alts and the like.

Yeah, form your own group, that can work and often does. It's not a guarantee however and putting a group together in Group Finder or Trade isn't anything at all like traveling to Mordor (which made me laugh out loud a few times today).

If more of the 'community' were interested in being helpful instead of demonstrating their innate asshattery then this wouldn't be a problem and we could dispense with LFD altogether.

[primalmatter]

A lot of people that complain about queue's and casuals and whatnot have shitty real-lives, and they compensate by trying to be better than people in games like WoW.

If you derive your self-worth from real life and you simply play video games for fun, you're going to have a hard time communicating with those folks.

The social aspects of the game, along with the dozens of hours a week you need to be successful in old-school WoW are the low-hanging fruit for these sorts of trolls to go after in order to prove how much better they are as people.

Kinda of projecting a little there lad...

All it takes to be the cream of the crop of wow is about six to nine hours a week of play.

I believe the game was better when it was designed as a rpg where you slowly progressed in power rather then here are some epics nameless hero go afk to kill archie!

I never get why people who are bad at the game try to make out that people who do better then them eat children. Seems petty.

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Well, that's fine. Except that one of the primary ways of learning content is to queue for it. So nice Catch-22 for alts and the like.

Yeah, form your own group, that can work and often does. It's not a guarantee however and putting a group together in Group Finder or Trade isn't anything at all like traveling to Mordor (which made me laugh out loud a few times today).

I would argue no one learns anything from queing for it anymore. It is made to be so easy you can't wipe. To learn you must first fail at something and try again. Never running into anything that can stop you is not a good environment for learning anything since by default you will succeed regardless.

[Tadkins]

I believe the game was better when it was designed as a rpg where you slowly progressed in power rather then here are some epics nameless hero go afk to kill archie!

Still a better system than never getting the chance at all. Better than being told "you're not cool enough to fight illidan here's one of his random no-name lieutenants, that is good enough for you".

I never get why people who are bad at the game try to make out that people who do better then them eat children. Seems petty.

It's not about being bad or good at the game, it's about being bad or good as people.

The people that are great at the game that help people in the community with guides and are friendly to talk to, those are the good people.
The ones that look down their nose at others for not being as progressed, and constantly try to take away things that the lower end enjoys, those are the bad people. I don't care if they've killed mythic archimonde a hundred times and hit 3000+ rating in PvP, an unpleasant person is an unpleasant person, and not worth my time.

[MoanaLisa]

To learn you must first fail at something and try again.

No, that is not correct. People can learn things just fine if they are taught properly. Since you seem to have no comprehension of the concept I won't waste any space explaining it. But believe me, people learn things every day without going through endless cycles of failure. Even you I would guess.

[primalmatter]

No, that is not correct. People can learn things just fine if they are taught properly. Since you seem to have no comprehension of the concept I won't waste any space explaining it. But believe me, people learn things every day without going through endless cycles of failure. Even you I would guess.

Very well how does that happen in WoW? Lets say you are a new player and utterly green. How do you know your rotation? How do you know what to dodge? What to cleanse? What to interrupt?

I started off wow specing deep into arcane in order to cast fireballs without running out of mana. Utterly horrible gameplay by even vanilla standards. I looked at what other people were doing and worked out what I did wrong. I have died tens of thousands of times to raid bosses and even dungeon bosses. Each death I learned a little more.

The problem with the queue system as it is today is that wiping has been made unacceptable. Everything has to be one shot by design. If all you do is queue content is it surprising that once you leave that environment you hit a brick wall instantly? Once you leave lfr and lfd you enter a world that expects you to know certain lessons.

For the queue system to work we need dungeons like we had in cata or at the very least the icc five mans. Failure isn't a bad thing it is how people improve. From a level 15 player to Method we all learn the same way.

[Soeroah]

If it's only a couple dungeons I'm fine with no queueing. Think I'd prefer them to have normal dungeons in addition to Mythic, though.

It's not the lack of queueing that turns me off, it's the memories of having to spend hours back in Classic/TBC trying to fill a group/replace members who left. I've got more stuff to do than dedicate an entire play session to a single dungeon run these days. It was relatively fine back when that was all there was, but I much prefer Queuing, then going out and questing, pet battling, leveling, etc. Consumes more of the game, it's more fun, it's more accessible.

Queuing brings back memories of sitting in Trade Chat, and even though we now have the Group Finder, I still find it annoying even now that I have to manually refresh every minute if I'm looking for a WoD Mythic dungeon or a world boss, instead of setting it and forgetting it while I actually have fun.

I guess the short answer to why I like Queues is, I try to squeeze as much fun as I can out of the game. Manual group finding can be a real chore, similar to the feeling I'm sure Mythic raiders would get if they were required to do four pet battles every time they wanted to zone into a raid.

[primalmatter]

Still a better system than never getting the chance at all. Better than being told "you're not cool enough to fight illidan here's one of his random no-name lieutenants, that is good enough for you".



It's not about being bad or good at the game, it's about being bad or good as people.

The people that are great at the game that help people in the community with guides and are friendly to talk to, those are the good people.
The ones that look down their nose at others for not being as progressed, and constantly try to take away things that the lower end enjoys, those are the bad people. I don't care if they've killed mythic archimonde a hundred times and hit 3000+ rating in PvP, an unpleasant person is an unpleasant person, and not worth my time.

Why are you trying to group with the highest level players in the game when it sounds like all you do is lfr? Of course they are going to be dismissive of you if you try to skip two tiers in tbc...

Look for a guild that raids normal or only a bit of heroic. They are constantly recruiting but people always flock to mythic guilds even if they have 0 raid experience then paint the community as evil when those guilds say no.

[Marrilaife]

Just going to say, you'd get invited if our raid team was looking for DPS that night, and you weren't EU. You're gear is good enough for heroic, and you're only missing 4-set. However, our group doesn't reserve gear, so we have less of an issue inviting anybody.

I don't lead pug raids since ICC but I make my own groups for mythic dungeons (those usually require 0 leadership, everyone knows those from hc anyway) and I don't exactly "cherry pick highest ilvl" or whatever, I often invite first 4 people who fulfil the role requirement and are above 700. Why?

Not because it's not doable below 700. I've done it long time ago with a group being below 680. But those times passed. And sadly my experience shows anyone nowadays who isn't 700 is just looking for a carry. Why? Because getting full set of 700s is so piss easy that if someone is too lazy to get even those "welfare epics" he is simply a freeloader.

The common experience in mythic dungeons if you join someone's else's group is the leader is good geared with a glued friend that has crap gear and no clue, but the group finder says 720+ required because the leader is. His crappy friends don't have to. They can wear half heirlooms and pray no one notices and the run will happen.

Once I went to help a guildie out in slagmines mythic. Guildie was playing a healer priest, pugging, couldn't find a tank so I went to help. Guess what, we nearly had to 2 man the place, well we had a rogue that was at least trying to do something, while the other 2 dps were providing next to 0 contribution. 1 was "lagging" and constantly afk, another had low gear (below 640) and was getting 1 shot by random aoe.

Now I shudder what if the mythic dungeons were on random queue and I was forced to boost such people over and again only to get my daily piece of valor done?

I would agree to put everything on queue system if Blizzard invented a way to weed out trash players that isn't based on "ilvl and achiv", because those often mean nothing. People have more ilvls and achievs and still suck. Therefore content that is queueable needs to be faceroll. If content is faceroll then we can tolerate players that don't pull their weight because in the end picture it doesn't matter, the content is balanced around people doing fuck all.

Also in raids when it becomes more complicated than just dps / hps we'd need way better ways to pinpoint who exactly did something wrong and wiped the raid. Because how it stands now people are often kicked wrongly and real culprits go unpunished, or groups just disband after a wipe because "fail group" even if the wipe was fault of 1 person.

[MrHappy]

It's about the journey. One does not simply queue into Mordor.

until that journey requires to spam trade chat for 2h then when finally you got a group and mosey on to the summing stone for the tank to just go offline because he got tired waiting for that healer so you hearth back and spam trade for another 45min to then finally get into mordor and realize you brought the worst dwarf in the 7 kingdoms so you say fuck it and hearth and log of for the night and wonder why can't you just queue for mordor.....

[Darktbs]

i don't understand one thing,people that complain about Lfg,Lfr or whatever Queue system.You guys have a Difficulty that is:Harder,requires "socialization" to form a group and Drops better loot then their Queue counterpart.Yet you complain about a weaker version that doesn't have anything i cited and is just there for people to enjoy as much as they want.

[Damajin]

Very well how does that happen in WoW? Lets say you are a new player and utterly green. How do you know your rotation? How do you know what to dodge? What to cleanse? What to interrupt?

I started off wow specing deep into arcane in order to cast fireballs without running out of mana. Utterly horrible gameplay by even vanilla standards. I looked at what other people were doing and worked out what I did wrong. I have died tens of thousands of times to raid bosses and even dungeon bosses. Each death I learned a little more.

The problem with the queue system as it is today is that wiping has been made unacceptable. Everything has to be one shot by design. If all you do is queue content is it surprising that once you leave that environment you hit a brick wall instantly? Once you leave lfr and lfd you enter a world that expects you to know certain lessons.

For the queue system to work we need dungeons like we had in cata or at the very least the icc five mans. Failure isn't a bad thing it is how people improve. From a level 15 player to Method we all learn the same way.

If you're a green player you learn by either reading stuff or talking to people about it. I started in Vanilla with no MMO experience and had to learn the hard way, trying, dying and talking. Using CC and other tricks to make pulls easier is something you have to be taught, though it does transfer over from other games a bit it's much more intricate in this one. Newer players have to both realize and also be exposed to the social side of MMOs where you get that kind of info from, or at the least take the 15 minutes it takes to Google up everything you need to know about your class.

WoW isn't Contra, pressing just a few buttons means you're going to do pretty terrible overall unless you've got reaction times of a ninja and even then the game is still designed to require you to use more of your skillset than just a few buttons. For now at least.

[Tadkins]

Why are you trying to group with the highest level players in the game when it sounds like all you do is lfr? Of course they are going to be dismissive of you if you try to skip two tiers in tbc...

Look for a guild that raids normal or only a bit of heroic. They are constantly recruiting but people always flock to mythic guilds even if they have 0 raid experience then paint the community as evil when those guilds say no.

Thanks to my server's "community", I never even got the chance to raid Karazhan back in the day, but that's neither here nor there. I was never a bad player, I just had a hard time standing out due to being a quiet person overall and struggled to get groups.

I have a great guild now, and am currently 5/13 mythic. However, thanks to my experiences back in the day, I will always defend inclusion and accessibility.

[apepi]

Its funny, they only click one button when they are participating too.

[Marrilaife]

Look for a guild that raids normal or only a bit of heroic. They are constantly recruiting but people always flock to mythic guilds even if they have 0 raid experience then paint the community as evil when those guilds say no.

Tell me more, my guild that is 13/13 mythic gets apps from people that have no touch with reality these days, for example a guy in full pvp gear zero raid xp, or a guy with 13/13 mythic but 1 kill on every boss and all achievs from the same day (obviously bought a boost). Why these people don't apply to guilds that are somewhere between 5 and 11 mythic and DESPERATE to fill up to 20 because they struggle with it? Why go straight towards server top guilds?

The best are the people who have crap gear, no logs but they write "I played in method / paragon but my old account got banned and I started this character after..." Or people who boast their awesome progress from private servers.

[primalmatter]

Thanks to my server's "community", I never even got the chance to raid Karazhan back in the day, but that's neither here nor there. I was never a bad player, I just had a hard time standing out due to being a quiet person overall and struggled to get groups.

I have a great guild now, and am currently 5/13 mythic. However, thanks to my experiences back in the day, I will always defend inclusion and accessibility.

Did you do everything you could of at the time? Did you have your dungeon set and crafted items?

Unless the server was low pop I find it hard to believe there wasn't some guild willing to take you into kara. I have been in guilds where not a single person talked in raid so it isn't like you need to be talkative to get things going.

[Marrilaife]

Lets say you are a new player and utterly green. How do you know your rotation? How do you know what to dodge? What to cleanse? What to interrupt?

There are so many guides these days, both written and video that you really don't have to learn the basics by trial and error. Everything is out there and pretty noob friendly, class guides, addon guides, boss tactics guides, levelling guides, goldmaking guides, everything.

[MoanaLisa]

This Darwinian bullshit is killing the game for average players.

[Tadkins]

Did you do everything you could of at the time? Did you have your dungeon set and crafted items?

Unless the server was low pop I find it hard to believe there wasn't some guild willing to take you into kara. I have been in guilds where not a single person talked in raid so it isn't like you need to be talkative to get things going.

I was a rogue on a low pop PvP server during BC who played erratic hours and had few friends. Getting into 5man groups was also a struggle. Quel'danas dailies and battlegrounds were about all I was able to do.

I did all that I could, in the sense that I spent hours at a time in Shattrath spamming for a group for pretty much anything, without any luck.

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This Darwinian bullshit is killing the game for average players.

Seriously.