[PTR] Numbers

[Deleted]

As the title says, I know some of you aswell as myself have been testing all 3 specs for mage, And i from what i've tested Frost seems to come up ontop on ST and on cleave, where as fire overtakes at 3 targets+ and arcane was just garbage.

I've done this testing with 745 full bis and 7 sockets where i have mastery gems. (Which means it's not even optimal for frost)

Please share your testresults, no matter iLvl.

I know scaling is really wonky cause things are tuned for artifacts and lvl 110 but still i'd love some input.

[gunner_recall]

726 iLvl, I've got like 65% mastery, 20% haste, 13% crit.

Frost and fire were pretty close on single target for me, frost pulled a little bit ahead on cleave but yeah fire was WAY better at 3+ targets. Arcane wasn't even worth looking at, it didn't do shit compared to the other two.

[Relapses]

744 Mage, pretty much BiS.

Arcane - Tried playing this with a number of different talent set ups but this just doesn't seem to work. Period. It's designed for a mana pool much larger than what we have at 100 so I don't really think I'll be playing this in the prepatch.

Frost - Using some of the Frost gear I had, I tried a few talent set ups but the T18 set bonus is antithetical to your T1 talent choice since Ray of Frost is literally unusable at 100. Didn't really try practicing it much because I really dislike the way Glacial Spike feels.

Fire - This was the spec which performed nearest to its current live iteration. Still felt incredibly underwhelming compared to live with the removal of Crystal. Ignite seemed to be doing disproportionate amounts of damage.

Overall consensus - Mages are gonna suck on the prepatch.

[Deleted]

Yep, got the same reaction.

[gunner_recall]

Yeah, I agree that arcane needs more mana to really work. Fire and frost felt fine but arcane, yeah, it's lacking.

[foonkinator]

Fire mage iLvL 741/744 on live 65% Mastery.... SAME EXACT GEAR on PTR ...... 33% Mastery as Fire.... I don't get it.

[qtBlackGandolf]

ilvl 741 as fire. Did some invasions as fire using the heirloom trinket and DSI since not having pris crystal makes sandman's lame. Pulled aggro with RoP+Ring+combust+hero on the pull and then ignite spread to the horde flight master and got me killed by the lvl 110 elite bats (we were in tarren mill). sitting at about 42% crit in that gear.

Arcane setup is 743. Pretty much BiS gear for live but hardly any sockets. Felt really weak compared to fire since the burn/conserve playstyle is different and I am not sure what the optimal talent load-out is.

I don't want to play frost until they decide whether they are incorporating the "new" brain freeze single target proc or not.

EDIT: Overall i feel like i'm doing way less damage in both my raiding specs relative to live

[Volitar]

Without looking at numbers Fire felt really good, Arcane was a trainwreck, and frost felt almost identical.

[Deleted]

This thread is very abstract. You don't talk about the rotations you are using or the setups. The theorycrafters haven't even completed the simcraft code yet and the rotations are up in the air.

I'm not sure if Arcane is actually weak because it's easy to rotate or setup incorrectly (or we don't know if we do). Also I doubt mana is the main issue unless you mean regen, but even then no.

By the way, if you are hitting the dummies, the fire spec is just automatically high AOE. Frost appears easy to learn again, little room of interpretation. But fire or frost might be best.

[pyrostorm9001]

ilvl 740 as fire
I have 6 sockets so this helps
using the class trinket (YUP) and Unblinking Gaze of Sethe
46% crit
21% haste
22% mastery

I am quite liking fire, the class trinket is actually useful since Flamestrike and IB do a fair amount of damage, and its off the GCD.
I have only been able to do 5 mans seeing most of the other content keeps crashing. So far I am always top dps on a boss fight, the closest anyone has gotten so far on damage output is a DK tank funnily enough.

Considering all of the above. Tuning (at least at 100) is a complete write off. expect many changes.

[masterprtzl]

741 Fire, 10 or so sockets, signature has my armory. Fire is pulling the most for me single. By the second ring pop im anywhere between 140-160. Arcane and Frost I cant come close to that. Fire feels the least changed of the specs and relies least on the artifact weapon. The tier 100 talents feel completely useless for fire though. Kindling desyncs your ring with combustion and the other two dont deal nearly enough damage to be worth the globals, at least on single target. Likely just take meteor for an instant cast while moving.

Frost has so many conflicting tools. Ray of Frost does a ton of damage, Glacial Spike does a ton of damage, class trinket ice lances are still strong, our 2/4 set are still solid, but it all takes up too many conflicting mechanics and globals. I couldnt find a great way to spec.

Arcane I am 744, but it feels really underwhelming. Maybe its the current stats or lack of artifact impacting them more than the other two specs, but it just didnt feel right.

- - - Updated - - -

ilvl 740 as fire
I have 6 sockets so this helps
using the class trinket (YUP) and Unblinking Gaze of Sethe
46% crit
21% haste
22% mastery

I am quite liking fire, the class trinket is actually useful since Flamestrike and IB do a fair amount of damage, and its off the GCD.
I have only been able to do 5 mans seeing most of the other content keeps crashing. So far I am always top dps on a boss fight, the closest anyone has gotten so far on damage output is a DK tank funnily enough.

Considering all of the above. Tuning (at least at 100) is a complete write off. expect many changes.

Class trinket is only 74% for me (mythic + upgraded) on the PTR, doesnt seem worth it for the chance at a flamestrike. Why Seethe over DSI or Goren Soul (if you have one)? I found the Seethe proc to be underwhelming.

[Volitar]

741 Fire, 10 or so sockets, signature has my armory. Fire is pulling the most for me single. By the second ring pop im anywhere between 140-160. Arcane and Frost I cant come close to that. Fire feels the least changed of the specs and relies least on the artifact weapon. The tier 100 talents feel completely useless for fire though. Kindling desyncs your ring with combustion and the other two dont deal nearly enough damage to be worth the globals, at least on single target. Likely just take meteor for an instant cast while moving.

Frost has so many conflicting tools. Ray of Frost does a ton of damage, Glacial Spike does a ton of damage, class trinket ice lances are still strong, our 2/4 set are still solid, but it all takes up too many conflicting mechanics and globals. I couldnt find a great way to spec.

Arcane I am 744, but it feels really underwhelming. Maybe its the current stats or lack of artifact impacting them more than the other two specs, but it just didnt feel right.

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Class trinket is only 74% for me (mythic + upgraded) on the PTR, doesnt seem worth it for the chance at a flamestrike. Why Seethe over DSI or Goren Soul (if you have one)? I found the Seethe proc to be underwhelming.

Prtzl, what talents and trinkets are you running for ptr fire?

[pyrostorm9001]

Class trinket is only 74% for me (mythic + upgraded) on the PTR, doesnt seem worth it for the chance at a flamestrike. Why Seethe over DSI or Goren Soul (if you have one)? I found the Seethe proc to be underwhelming.

Class trinket is a 64% for me because its a heroic only version but it has a socket.
My flamestrike is hitting for about 16k and im hitting IB constantly so it is a very strong.

Sethe has a socket and mythic wf. 415 int and a 13,796 damage to all targets it hits at ~6.03 procs per min.
DSI is only mythic with 375 mastery and a 1289 int proc for 20 secs and is ~1 proc per min
GSR is only 288 int wih 2122 crit proc for 10 sec at 0.92 procs per min. hardly seems worth it.

Int and crit are miles better than mastery now, and crit gems are worth 200 points. So Sethe is the clear winner on stats alone.

fyi im using http://legion.wowhead.com/talent-calc/mage/fire/MlB0 as my build.

[Video Games]

If they're gonna make rune of power so fucking gay they can at least make it so it drops where you are and an instant cast

[pyrostorm9001]

Cast time brings it in line with IF. It does drop at your feet.

[tgrape]

Yeah Arcane is really awful right now, and it's probably because of the Mastery rating change. Have 75% unbuffed live, and on the ptr it's down to 35%. Gonna have to either go with frost or fire.

[Video Games]

Cast time brings it in line with IF. It does drop at your feet.

oh nice. Probably use it then

[Dastey]

Frost test:
740 ilvl - Haste gemmed/enchanted
4 piece bonus, class trinket and PoF
NO Bloodlust or legendary ring used
Small amounts of cleaving on training dummy in garrison, consistent in all tests
3 minute duration with 1 use of Icy Veins
Constant talents: Rune of Power, Splitting Ice and Unstable Magic

Lonely Winter + Thermal Void: 66k
Lonely Winter + Glacial Spike: 68k
Bone Chilling + Glacial Spike: 78k
Bone Chilling + Thermal Void: 78k
Ray of Frost + Thermal Void: 74k
Ray of Frost + Glacial Spike: 78k

Doom Nova to my surprise was often 15-18% of my damage. Overall with the 4 piece bonus bone chilling had the best feel to it, as Ray of Frost feels very bad to use.
Thermal Void with Frozen Orb and 4 piece bonus had some ridicouless uptimes, often around 90 seconds.


Fire test:
740 ilvl - Haste gemmed/enchanted
4 piece bonus, class trinket and DSI
NO Bloodlust or legendary ring used
Small amounts of cleaving on training dummy in garrison, consistent in all tests
3 minute test with 2 uses of Combustion (with 3rd being ready as fight stopped)
Talents used: Pyromaniac - Rune of Power - Flame On - Unstable Magic - Kindling

This did pretty consistently 75k DPS. The class trinket while only reaching ~76% chance is really quite good, doing approximately 8% of the damage.
Pyromaniac talent actually felt really good to used, as it provides some nice bursting potential, especially when you get more crit (I was sitting around 33%)

[stevenho]

Your numbers are pretty similar to mine, frost doing 86K (bone chill+TV) in haste mastery gear while fire doing about 80 in crit/mastery gear (no BL/ring).
The amount of cleaving is not small though, more than 26-28%.
Interesting fact is that FoF sometimes "bugs" - I can cast frostbolts for 2 minutes and it won't proc.

Now to test with ring and BL.

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What a complete joke Unstable Magic is for frost. 1.5 to 1.9% total damage. Hello frost bomb and keeping it up. 11% total damage.

[Deleted]

anywhere between 140-160. Arcane and Frost I cant come close to that.

Yeah Arcane is really awful right now, and it's probably because of the Mastery rating change. Have 75% unbuffed live, and on the ptr it's down to 35%. Gonna have to either go with frost or fire.

I expect tuning because it would annoy people. If we don't get tuning I expect a horde of fire mages. It's kinda unfair of course because that legion spec is extremely easy to play compared to Arcane.

Frost looks now almost harder to play properly compared to fire, but not necessarily.