[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[Taeldorian]

Yeah i kinda dislike it looks fat and that the textures & polygon count seems very low=P.
Not only that i think its armor looks a bit bland & "common" it should have something unique and it looks to much like a human whit wings. It would be nice if it was more races or a being like tyrael from wow that does not look like a human.

I get what youre saying. Definitely agree too. Imagine if we grew wings like Tyraels or something for AW, that would be sweet. Something other than a human though for Guardian of Ancient Kings, totally agree.

[Thundering]

The HPal toolkit didn't see a huge reduction: gained LotM, kept the core stuff (FoL, HL, HS, LoD, Prism, etc) as well as utility (Hands, DP, Wings, etc). HPal has never been hugely engaging, but I don't think they're any worse of off in terms of dynamism compared to WoD. Numbers-wise it's TBD unto more raid testing and final tuning.

Mistweavers have ~4 spells, no Fort Brew, interrupt, Expel Harm, etc. Numbers-wise they are actually OK, but it's a very, very simple rotation (one ST, one MT, one AoE spell). Vast change from live (and what a lot of MW's signed up for).

(Holy Priest looks pretty solid now, which is great)

Problem is mana does not matter so you use only flash, matyr is never worth it holy light does not matter and so on. I would increase of spells mana costs making holy light more favorble as to keep your mana.
I still ever support more offensive healing like crusader strike and judgement & auto attacks healing the beacon, maybe decrease the cast time of holy light when you used crusader strike .
For the ranged healers i would see maybe that using holy shock as damage abilty instead of a heal would regen some mana so it becomes a tactical choice heal or mana regen something like that. I think they should recude the range of judgement to the old style when it was melee, and intergrate longer judgement range and mana regen on judgement of light talent.
I could also see blessing of wisdom as something like ineverate.

[siccora]

why are we talking healing rotation now? doesnt make sense at all. without shields i have to use my spells reactivly and not use x y z repeat.
and with nothing to heal it is better to do dmg instead of keep my "rotation" up.

[Thundering]

why are we talking healing rotation now? doesnt make sense at all. without shields i have to use my spells reactivly and not use x y z repeat.
and with nothing to heal it is better to do dmg instead of keep my "rotation" up.

Well spaming flash of light isent really a rotation...

[siccora]

Well spaming flash of light isent really a rotation...

i was referring to the BoV rotation one page ago. and no. spamming Fol is not a thing. never ever can you heal in a raid with only one button.

[Thundering]

i was referring to the BoV rotation one page ago. and no. spamming Fol is not a thing. never ever can you heal in a raid with only one button.

Would not suprice me if you can in heroic and down since mythic 5mans does not even bring me below 85% mana.

[Supliftz]

WTB logs of testing, or testing impressions re hpal, healer balance, etc.

the logs exist now, and they seem really average.

the hps certainly isn't strong enough to carry subpar raid cd/tank cd.

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so you think that even with a maxed out artifact, holy paladins still wont be in a good spot? i'm talking to my mates and they say, that you cannot only judge the class right now because of beta, artifact and missing content. but i understand the argument. damn. i was so sure i stick with pala but after reading so much negativity about the class design.…

The only thing that really looks amazing about the holy paladin artifact is double light of dawn traits. That's really not any different to double renewing mist traits for monk lol.

[Deleted]

For the fellow paladins that read this thread and panic:
Are you going to raid 16h+ and aim for top 20 in the world? IF NOT, there is nothing to see in this thread, paladin will be playable and good palas will still fight for the meters and be valuable for the raid no mater what.

As for the ppl say paladin is boring in Legion, let me tell you something, its not more boring the it is now, so if you are ok with how pala is in WoD you will be happy with it in legion aswell.

[Leefa]

For the fellow paladins that read this thread and panic:
Are you going to raid 16h+ and aim for top 20 in the world? IF NOT, there is nothing to see in this thread, paladin will be playable and good palas will still fight for the meters and be valuable for the raid no mater what.

Thats like saying "holy priest was playable in WoD" yet nobody serious played it cause disc was much better. It doesnt matter if you are in top 20 or top 200, you will still run into the same issues and frustration regardless.

Everything is "playable" but being playable isn't what matters on progress.

[Jeathebelle]

why are we talking healing rotation now? doesnt make sense at all. without shields i have to use my spells reactivly and not use x y z repeat.
and with nothing to heal it is better to do dmg instead of keep my "rotation" up.

If you don't think knowing how to maximize your healing within the Virtue window is useful/relevant, that's your business I guess!

With or without shields, healing is both reactive AND proactive. Good healers know damage patterns. Nothing in using Virtue stops you from dpsing in downtime, but if you know damage is coming and you're gonna pop virtue, it's good to know how to maximize. And yes, of course, especially in mythic progression, "rotations" get disrupted, movement interferes, etc. But it's still relevant for us to think about/discuss maximum/optimal output. IMO at least. Anyway if talking about how to maximize offends you....then don't. <3

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the logs exist now, and they seem really average.

the hps certainly isn't strong enough to carry subpar raid cd/tank cd.

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The only thing that really looks amazing about the holy paladin artifact is double light of dawn traits. That's really not any different to double renewing mist traits for monk lol.

I don't really agree. HPS looks really good. Of course BoSac sucking is bad. But Devo has always been a useful raid cd; not as good as tranq/htt/etc but good, certainly not holding hpal back in WoD. If you aren't scared of 1-shots, Sac Aura provides a pretty potent raid cd too. So I disagree about subpar raid cds. And if your team is reasonably skilled, you could use BoP at least once in a fight to completely negate a big dmg hit on a tank; taunt with it, cancelaura when taunt debuff expires, and enjoy continuing to dps thru the bop.

Make BoSac useable, give hpal a much better movement option (ideally not competing with a thruput ability as Holy Donkey does now), and hpals will be better off, certainly. But I think the doom and gloom is overstated.

[Deleted]

I don't really agree. HPS looks really good.

None of the bosses that were tested yesterday were good for testing hps and being 3rd-4th on the meters is not something I would consider good anyways.

But Devo has always been a useful raid cd; not as good as tranq/htt/etc but good, certainly not holding hpal back in WoD. If you aren't scared of 1-shots, Sac Aura provides a pretty potent raid cd too. So I disagree about subpar raid cds.

Strictly worse than hymn htt and tranq, worse than SLT revival and barrier in a lot of situations, this is pretty much the definition of below average.

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Paladins still need a ton of work, if everything we have is below average to average that means we are not in a good spot. Aura of Sacrifice and Mercy both needs crazy buffs to be good, our tank cd needs the damage transfer removed, we need something like speed of light OR pursuit of justice (baseline).

Most importantly paladins needs to be more fun to play, it is brain dead easy with HS, LoD and BF on cd and FoL/HL spam in between. It is sickening that resto shamans have turned into a more fun and functional holy paladin this expansion while holy paladins are being kept at the Highmaul level of design (utter shit).

After they have fixed those parts of the spec we also need to have all the artifact traits redesigned so we can get rid of reduces cd by x or increases healing by x. Oh and half the talents also needs buffing/redesign to not make them useless, it is not even a question of maybe I can use this in 5 mans, no those talents are so bad you cant use them period.

[Leefa]

- Hand of Sacrifice: Sacrifice 30% of your maximum health to reduce the damage an ally take by 30% for 12 seconds. 3 minute cooldown.
- Mastery-Lightbringer: Proximity to your target causes your spells to heal for up to x% more. Additionally your movement speed is increased by ½x%.

[Taeldorian]

- Hand of Sacrifice: Sacrifice 30% of your maximum health to reduce the damage an ally take by 30% for 12 seconds. 3 minute cooldown.
- Mastery-Lightbringer: Proximity to your target causes your spells to heal for up to x% more. Additionally your movement speed is increased by ½x%.

Well after watching raid testing yesterday when I got home from finals it seems like the mobility isn't dragging us down as much as I expected in raids. Obviously it's testing but Sparty (Yes, Sparty. If you're better than you can link your armory) did fine and he was taking RoL. The fight did require a lot of moving as well like avoiding webs so you don't spawn extra spiders, etc. It would be easier with more mobility but it seems like it's doable.

As for meters, why are people paying attention to hps and dps right now? Tuning isn't finished. We weren't bad either, the holy Paladins I was watching were 2nd and 3rd on the meters (2 were in the raid. Raid comp was Resto sham h priest 2 holy Paladins) right behind the R shaman, sometimes pulling ahead.

As for our utility, it definitely needs to be made better. We have the tools, they just need to be tuned so they're actually useful in raids.

[Deleted]

Well after watching raid testing yesterday when I got home from finals it seems like the mobility isn't dragging us down as much as I expected in raids. Obviously it's testing but Sparty (Yes, Sparty. If you're better than you can link your armory) did fine and he was taking RoL. The fight did require a lot of moving as well like avoiding webs so you don't spawn extra spiders, etc. It would be easier with more mobility but it seems like it's doable.

As for meters, why are people paying attention to hps and dps right now? Tuning isn't finished. We weren't bad either, the holy Paladins I was watching were 2nd and 3rd on the meters (2 were in the raid. Raid comp was Resto sham h priest 2 holy Paladins) right behind the R shaman, sometimes pulling ahead.

As for our utility, it definitely needs to be made better. We have the tools, they just need to be tuned so they're actually useful in raids.

Why are you watching sparty when guilds like Nihilum and Danish Terrace are streaming...

[Floopa]

Why are you watching sparty when guilds like Nihilum and Danish Terrace are streaming...

no healing meters

[Leefa]

no healing meters

Theres logs though so who cares about a meter.

[Floopa]

Theres logs though so who cares about a meter.

no mistweaver monk

[Taeldorian]

Why are you watching sparty when guilds like Nihilum and Danish Terrace are streaming...

I'll watch them too. Didn't know they streamed. I'll watch them during Monday's raid testing if I'm not participating

[HPLathus]

I really don't understand how people are saying holy paladin is dull in legion.

To me, it's vastly different and much more interesting to play in it's legion state then it is now.

[Tomana]

Why cant peopel accept that you cant have all?

There is a fine difference between not having all and being constantly crap since at least Cataclysm