Is "murder" justified when victim is completely evil?

[THE Bigzoman]

I'll look at it on a case by case basis.

Only a few actions are immoral 100% of the time.

[Damajin]

Sometimes I think these threads are just datamining efforts. Nah, no one would do anything like that.

[kail]

Evil is not subjective, only opinions on it are.

If you believe its subjective then you must assume that its possible for nobody to truly be evil as long as they believe what they are doing is right, which would exonerate pedophiles who think its ok to fuck children, or terrorists who believe that they are doing gods work, or scientists who imprison subjects and test vile diseases on them in the name of science for the greater good.

In a world of moral relativism, everything is good so long as you believe it is, which is bullshit.

Besides it proves itself wrong, if every view is valid, then the view that its invalid is correct, which proves by its own standards that it is incorrect.

So its only peoples views on morality that are relative, but true morality, and therefore evil, is not relative.

Also your argument defeats itself, if nobody decides what is evil then nobody can say this is not justifiable

We determine what is evil or not. There is no biological tell or some "dark side" that makes one evil or not. What we call evil is simply a universal agreement on what isn't acceptable or abhorrent to society. Mix religion into it and you'll realize that there is not set rule or tell on what is evil or not. Evil is subjective, what is evil to one person may not be to another.

It's quite simply really.

[Ham on Rye]

Was watching a television show about this whole pay evil unto evil deal. It's only labelled murder because killing someone like this would fall under it, but what if the victim is complete, unrepentant, unadulterated evil? Think Mexican drug lords, rapists, and worst of all, animal abusers.

Animal abusers are NOT worse than rapists or drug lords.

[Arikara]

No man on earth, however heartless and cruel they may be, can be said to be evil, for there is no such thing as absolute evil.

You could probably say that certain acts are evil, but that does not make the person perpetrating them evil, however fitting you might think the word might be. You see, even the most twisted people are merely products of their upbringing and the circumstances of their life. Odds are, the worst cases of those people have had a shitty life that has dragged down their outlook on life, personal image and so on, and they've eventually answered by doing something unforgiveable, like rape or murder. But at what point do they hypothetically become evil? Only once they take the action, even though they were probably capable and willing of doing similar, sooner? Yet it doesnt make sense to call them evil simply because they happen to have developed in such a way as to be likely to take an immoral action. Hell, odds are that there is a perfectly reasonable argument or series of events - seen from their side, atleast - as to why they come to take an evil action. That doesnt make it less bad or justify anything, ofcourse, but it is something to consider.

Ultimately, the word 'evil' is absolutionist, while people are complicated and infinitely diverse. Those two things dont go together.

[Daedius]

There's plenty of people that deserve to die, but got off free because they're rich and could afford to sleaze their way out...

[Vash The Stampede]

In a world of moral relativism, everything is good so long as you believe it is, which is bullshit.

Besides it proves itself wrong, if every view is valid, then the view that its invalid is correct, which proves by its own standards that it is incorrect.

So its only peoples views on morality that are relative, but true morality, and therefore evil, is not relative.

Also your argument defeats itself, if nobody decides what is evil then nobody can say this is not justifiable

We can agree on what's evil, the problem here is that is one evil act justified over another? Is killing a rapist or child molester justified? You exchange one evil act for another. For me, killing a human being is a far worse evil act over rape. The only time death can be justified is if it's because that person killed another. Even then, no, because we can't be absolutely certain that action is proper. Like should George Zimmerman die for killing Trayvon?

We should not be so quick to become the Judge and Executioner. Even Star Trek is against the idea of executing criminals. But in this case, we didn't even give the person a trial.

[bloodmoth13]

We determine what is evil or not. There is no biological tell or some "dark side" that makes one evil or not. What we call evil is simply a universal agreement on what isn't acceptable or abhorrent to society. Mix religion into it and you'll realize that there is not set rule or tell on what is evil or not. Evil is subjective, what is evil to one person may not be to another.

It's quite simply really.

and some religions use their religion to accept evil, therefore you could assume that those religions are wrong.

If evil is a measurement of morality, then it is not relative, relativism is stupid and pointless, its a ruse used by people to deny what they do is wrong

[Shadowferal]

Anyone that doesn't understand this as evil has no business making any judgments towards those that do understand.

[Deletedaccount1]

We determine what is evil or not. There is no biological tell or some "dark side" that makes one evil or not. What we call evil is simply a universal agreement on what isn't acceptable or abhorrent to society. Mix religion into it and you'll realize that there is not set rule or tell on what is evil or not. Evil is subjective, what is evil to one person may not be to another.

It's quite simply really.

Intuitions among other things can show absolute morality. There is a reason why among experts on ethics in philosophy, only 10% of them are moral anti-realists or relativists.

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Unfortunately like most issues that become part of a partisan discussion, one camp favors killing all criminals when it isn't justified and the other wants to keep them alive and give them a new PlayStation.

[breadisfunny]

yep thats what the death penalty is for.

[Bethrezen]

I'd totally support a dude like Punisher.

Good post.

On another note, I would be all for evil sitting behind bars/walls to rot.

If we didn't as law abiding citizens have to pay for it. Why punish us for punishing evil?

[Wildtree]

Only Raymond Reddington is allowed to kill evil people.

[Stormlance]

Considering evil is a subjective thing I would say no.

Everyone is extremely evil to some one for some reason. Just look at that gay night club. The shooter thought he was a good person killing evil people from his perspective.

I would say no. Not because I necessarily disagree with the idea I just see the inherit dangers of giving people that power.

[Wildtree]

Considering evil is a subjective thing I would say no.

Everyone is extremely evil to some one for some reason. Just look at that gay night club. The shooter thought he was a good person killing evil people from his perspective.

You think that's what he thought?
I'm pretty convinced that he knew damn well that he was committing a crime, that he was not a good person when he does what he did.

[PosPosPos]

You think that's what he thought?
I'm pretty convinced that he knew damn well that he was committing a crime, that he was not a good person when he does what he did.

Yeah well, like I am pretty convinced you think you are psychic based on this statement, but it's not like I have 100% certainty that its a fact.

Add that to many terrorists tend to be brainwashed-from-birth individuals who think their cause is just(not that the mass shooter in question was), and I fail to share in your confidence.

[Stormlance]

You think that's what he thought?
I'm pretty convinced that he knew damn well that he was committing a crime, that he was not a good person when he does what he did.

This topic is about breaking the law in order to kill a person you consider evil isn't it?

I don't get what you are trying to say. I don't think killing fifty people and injuring thrice that number is a good thing...

[Deleted]

Yes, but only in extreme cases. Say, I'm faced with Adolf Hitler. Killing him would actually be justified and good.


Therefor, in this example the person who killed Hitler in reality was a hero!
If you're quoting me now to tell me Hitler killed himself, I know, that part was a joke.

[Wildtree]

Yeah well, like I am pretty convinced you think you are psychic based on this statement, but it's not like I have 100% certainty that its a fact.

No you don't.
And your logic would apply to Stormlance too btw. So, him and I are psychics.

Add that to many terrorists tend to be brainwashed-from-birth individuals who think their cause is just(not that the mass shooter in question was), and I fail to share in your confidence.

Many terrorists, yes. Never argued anything else.
Our Oregon shooter however was born in the USA, grew up in the USA, went to school and college there, and soaked up the American culture. It's safe to say that along with that he also learned what's right and wrong by US society's definitions.
Background matters.

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This topic is about breaking the law in order to kill a person you consider evil isn't it?

I don't get what you are trying to say. I don't think killing fifty people and injuring thrice that number is a good thing...

No no, you're absolutely right.
I was just wondering, since you said you think the guy didn't believe he was doing something evil.
And I think he knew that very well, given that he was a 29 years old American. He radicalized rather recently.

[Alydael]

I would kill someone who hurt my family or children. 100% No doubts, no regrets. The though of jail for life over it does not scare me. I highly doubt I would be put to death for a revenge killing being a crime of passion.

I would kill them just for attempting to hurt my family, even if they were unsuccessful. Someone that would cause harm to children just doesn't deserve to live really. If they put me in jail for it, I would go with a smile on my face- knowing that I stopped some degenerate from ever harming someone's family (or children) again.