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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysia View Post
    Magazine restrictions are functionally worthless if the shooter does any preparation whatsoever, and most mass shooters do.
    If you cut down the number of bullets to 5 for all weapons it would surely have an effect.

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
    This topic is pissing and moaning over semantics. Fully automatic weapons are essentially banned. Maybe we should think about banning semi automatic weapons too, or at a minimum slice the mag size down to 10. You can't stop all crazy people from doing crazy things all the time, but you can limit the damage they can inflict with trivially easy to aquire firearms that cost less than a week's pay.
    And once that is done and mass shootings are still happening with 10 round mags, the goalpost will be moved to 5.

    Then 3

    Then 1

    Then whatever is left.

  3. #443
    Immortal Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysia View Post
    Magazine restrictions are functionally worthless if the shooter does any preparation whatsoever, and most mass shooters do.
    I concur, it would make hardly any difference at all. I'd be more in favor of a ban and buyback on all semi automatic weapons, handguns included.
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  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
    I concur, it would make hardly any difference at all. I'd be more in favor of a ban and buyback on all semi automatic weapons, handguns included.
    And that is never going to happen. The best thing you as a citizen can do is make your own decision and move to somewhere in the USA with as many anti-gun laws as they can muster.

    I'm all for like minded people clustering together.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    And that is never going to happen. The best thing you as a citizen can do is make your own decision and move to somewhere in the USA with as many anti-gun laws as they can muster.

    I'm all for like minded people clustering together.
    That doesn't change anything, because usually the states with tough gun laws border states with lax gun laws, so the guns just come from another fucking state. Those states still have less mass shootings than states with the most lax gun laws.

  6. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    And once that is done and mass shootings are still happening with 10 round mags, the goalpost will be moved to 5.

    Then 3

    Then 1

    Then whatever is left.
    Only allow muzzleloaders. Would be hipster as fuck and I can't see a serious mass shooting happening like that. Where's my nobel peace price?

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    That doesn't change anything, because usually the states with tough gun laws border states with lax gun laws, so the guns just come from another fucking state. Those states still have less mass shootings than states with the most lax gun laws.
    Don't live in the ghetto and you will be fine.

    I mean I live in Georgia, about as redneck as it gets. Guns everywhere. 36 years later I haven't been shot yet.

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    That doesn't change anything, because usually the states with tough gun laws border states with lax gun laws, so the guns just come from another fucking state. Those states still have less mass shootings than states with the most lax gun laws.
    I ask again, what do you postulate as the cause of the supposedly disturbing upward trend of mass shootings that your data doesn't actually support since 2010? The AWB expired a full six years prior to this "increase" that isn't actually an increase, because the FBI data you linked was not for mass shootings.

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  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysia View Post
    I ask again, what do you postulate as the cause of the supposedly disturbing upward trend of mass shootings that your data doesn't actually support since 2010? The AWB expired a full six years prior to this "increase" that isn't actually an increase, because the FBI data you linked was not for mass shootings.
    I take it you decided to ignore the report, but the active shooter report showed at increase in mass shootings You read the title and decided "hah it says active!"

    However this is another issue we have a rise in the number of people who are aiming to kill a bunch of people, anyway of those events many turned out to also be mass murders. 64 of those events were mass murders.

    There's also the major issue that our shootings tend to out number the amount of people killed in school/mall/ public space shootings than all other OECD countries combined.

    You could could combine all the other countries and stretch out their crimes over several years and we'd still be ahead.

    WE have lower rates of theft and lower rates of assaults yet when it comes to shootings we just lead the pack, so it's not that we are just a violent country.
    Last edited by Themius; 2016-06-18 at 03:27 PM.

  10. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordsphinx View Post
    Let’s look at these things individually though:

    Rifles:

    This doesn’t make a rifle more deadly; it’s purely asthetic.

    This doesn’t make a rifle more deadly; it’s purely asthetic. Yes, it makes it easier to transport, but not by a lot.

    Suppressors themselves require a special license, and the threaded barrel does nothing on it’s own.

    Again, a bayonet is illegal on its own. The mount does nothing

    Seriously? These require a special license as well.

    Pistols:

    Outside the pistol grip or in a magazine holder on your belt is effectually the same thing

    See suppressor above

    This does nothing to make a pistol more deadly, it’s purely asthetics

    Read: Big scary gun. The weight of a gun is irrelevant to its effectiveness in shooting things

    Shotguns:

    These have been illegal for a long time

    See rifle pistol grip

    See rifle folding stock

    This is the only one on the list I agree with.
    Only thing you have wrong there is the "flash suppressor". A flash suppressor or hider does not reduce the noise, it reduces the... flash. It is designed to reduce the chances that the shooter will be blinded in low-light conditions. I can attest it is still pretty bright even with a flash suppressor, better close one eye. Sound suppressors or silencers are designed to reduce the noise and flash, exactly like a car muffler. Sound suppressors are legal almost everywhere, you just need to pay for an extra "tax stamp" of about $200.

    I bought my AR-15 in 2004, post-ban. It has all of these features. It has failed to kill any people as of today. In fact, it has failed to fire itself even once without me pulling the trigger manually. But, there is always tomorrow.
    Last edited by Betelgeuse; 2016-06-18 at 03:59 PM.
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    In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem.

  11. #451
    Immortal Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysia View Post
    I ask again, what do you postulate as the cause of the supposedly disturbing upward trend of mass shootings that your data doesn't actually support since 2010? The AWB expired a full six years prior to this "increase" that isn't actually an increase, because the FBI data you linked was not for mass shootings.
    I would contend that the root cause of the uptick in mass shooting is economic disparity. It's pretty well documented that large wealth inequality leads to an uptick in mental a problems for the populace. Couple that with the population becoming increasingly mixed, leading to increasing racial tensions. The 330,000,000 guns laying around in this country is just the fuel, an easy way for people to slaughter with weaponry that's trivial to aquire for everyone but felons and pants on head visibly crazy people.
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  12. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macaquerie View Post
    Here's what I don't get - let's say all of you are right about the media manipulating statistics so the government can push through another assault weapons ban and take your guns away, now what? What exactly do you think the government is planning to do with this new found absolute power over the cowed citizenry?
    Anything they want. See: National Socialist German Worker's Party. Hell, look at the Obama administration using the IRS against political opponents. The zealotry is already there, just waiting for the right opportunity.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
    I would contend that the root cause of the uptick in mass shooting is economic disparity. It's pretty well documented that large wealth inequality leads to an uptick in mental a problems for the populace. Couple that with the population becoming increasingly mixed, leading to increasing racial tensions. The 330,000,000 guns laying around in this country is just the fuel, an easy way for people to slaughter with weaponry that's trivial to aquire for everyone but felons and pants on head visibly crazy people.
    This is pretty spot on. Hope is the only thing that keeps millions of people sane. When you take away their hope and replace it with "change" they begin to misplace their marbles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xekus View Post
    Yes, she would destroy me and my raging boner.
    In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem.

  13. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    I don't quite get this... he fires the initial 20 slowly and then fires the others faster and reloads. What is this to say that they're about the same? I venture to say if he fired the first rounds like the second he would have been slower by a few more seconds.
    Get a stopwatch and time the reload yourself, it's more than a half a second, sure, but it's one second more, not a few, the reload takes 1.5 seconds... I don't see how anything would change with that.


    Lets not forget that, even if 11+ round magazines were banned, they could just grab a cheap 3d printer and make 30rd mags themselves... As I said earlier, if the person is going to go on a murder/suicide spree, they aren't going to care if they spend more than they can pay back on their credit card beforehand.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  14. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    Lets not forget that, even if 11+ round magazines were banned, they could just grab a cheap 3d printer and make 30rd mags themselves... As I said earlier, if the person is going to go on a murder/suicide spree, they aren't going to care if they spend more than they can pay back on their credit card beforehand.
    If that were the case why are mass murderers not opting to go black market and aquiring a fully automatic ak-74 with 100 round drum mags? Or mounting a .50 cal to their car?
    Ease of access is a huge part of the issue, don't kid yourself. Low hanging fruit and all that.
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  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    I take it you decided to ignore the report, but the active shooter report showed at increase in mass shootings You read the title and decided "hah it says active!"

    However this is another issue we have a rise in the number of people who are aiming to kill a bunch of people, anyway of those events many turned out to also be mass murders. 64 of those events were mass murders.

    There's also the major issue that our shootings tend to out number the amount of people killed in school/mall/ public space shootings than all other OECD countries combined.

    You could could combine all the other countries and stretch out their crimes over several years and we'd still be ahead.

    WE have lower rates of theft and lower rates of assaults yet when it comes to shootings we just lead the pack, so it's not that we are just a violent country.
    No, no it didn't. It showed an increase in active shooter situations if you start the clock at 2008 or earlier and a spike in active shooter victims in 2012. Not all active shootout situations end up as mass shootings.

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  16. #456
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
    If that were the case why are mass murderers not opting to go black market and aquiring a fully automatic ak-74 with 100 round drum mags? Or mounting a .50 cal to their car?
    Ease of access is a huge part of the issue, don't kid yourself. Low hanging fruit and all that.
    black market ≠ buying a 3d printer on amazon... get your head out of your backside.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    If you cut down the number of bullets to 5 for all weapons it would surely have an effect.
    and if we put governors on all cars so they cant ever go over the highest allotted speed limit just think of all the lives that can be saved
    why do you want a car that can travel faster then the highest allotted speed limit? more people are killed every year from people speeding then guns by far

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    and if we put governors on all cars so they cant ever go over the highest allotted speed limit just think of all the lives that can be saved
    why do you want a car that can travel faster then the highest allotted speed limit? more people are killed every year from people speeding then guns by far
    something something utility to society something something those deaths don't matter because guns something something something reasons.

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post

    Lets not forget that, even if 11+ round magazines were banned, they could just grab a cheap 3d printer and make 30rd mags themselves...
    How would they do that if it's against the law??

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    something something utility to society something something those deaths don't matter because guns something something something reasons.
    Think of the children.

  20. #460
    Immortal Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    something something utility to society something something those deaths don't matter because guns something something something reasons.
    People are actively working to solve that problem as we speak. I'd bet in the next decade or two humans won't be able to legally drive.
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