[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[seeltas92]

I want what you're smoking. WoD Ret is way more fun. Superior in nearly every way.

can you please elaborate on what actually you find enjoyable in Legion Ret?

I love how the devs aim to please those that don't enjoy Ret and give the middle finger to the 80% that do. Enjoy! At least you can.

1. sorry for my bad english, i am not a native speaker
2. I dont know how to describe exactly what i find enjoyable. I just like how you build up ur resources and then finish your rota with your hard-hitting holy-might-consuming abilities. I played MS warry a lot in the past expansions, maybe thats just another reason why.

I know ret has its weaknesses, but every other class has them too (maybe exept DH cause new class etc :P)

Have a good day guys

[Morally Grey Storm]

1. sorry for my bad english, i am not a native speaker
2. I dont know how to describe exactly what i find enjoyable. I just like how you build up ur resources and then finish your rota with your hard-hitting holy-might-consuming abilities. I played MS warry a lot in the past expansions, maybe thats just another reason why.

I know ret has its weaknesses, but every other class has them too (maybe exept DH cause new class etc :P)

Have a good day guys

1. That is not a problem, here we gave close to no bashing for less than stellar English.
2. So what you find enjoyable is basically that you like gameplay style that reminds you of arms warrior. Or at least one specific gameplay part of that class, that is pooling and spending during specific Window.

Which in turn begs the question: why play what reminds you of something (and is a pathetic copy at that), when you can play the original, more fleshed out, the better one?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It's going to be awhile before players will have their set bonuses, Pre Patch and when Legion Launches. So I don't really think that's a point in Zeal's favor.

[seeltas92]

Which in turn begs the question: why play what reminds you of something (and is a pathetic copy at that), when you can play the original, more fleshed out, the better one?

Thats a pretty good question^^ It is really hard for me to give a real rational answer to this^^ I think it is on the one hand the playstyle i really like (even if it is still a "pathetic copy of that") and on the other hand it is a RP thing. I just like paladins, the lore etc.

So in the end the "legion paladin" is a pretty enjoyable paladin for me

[Arkadiah]

But whats the point of crusade talent?

[Morally Grey Storm]

Thats a pretty good question^^ It is really hard for me to give a real rational answer to this^^ I think it is on the one hand the playstyle i really like (even if it is still a "pathetic copy of that") and on the other hand it is a RP thing. I just like paladins, the lore etc.

So in the end the "legion paladin" is a pretty enjoyable paladin for me

I'll wish you have fun with it then.
And less rational or critical approach, lest you want to be disappointed.

But whats the point of crusade talent?

To spec into it.
Or not to spec into it.

[Snegovik]

So i got some more time to spend on PTR...meh Ret rotation is just soooooooooooooo f boring and clunky without RNG. But think what amazed me the most, is that after goofing around on Ret, i decided to try Prot (last time i plaid prot PvP/PvE was s7) and prot game play felt much more smooth and much more enjoyable to my Ret's hearth than Ret's game play on PTR. Also Ret maybe pools ahead from Prot on sustain, but with prot if u line up serph+Wings i got some sick burst from Avg Shield, which was higher burst than i had on my Ret( i specked 50% more dmg on 1st row talents)... its kinda funny but i find Prot to be more of a Ret, than Ret spec itself XD

Oh and also prot gets 25% heal every 8 sec...on top of being PROT, i mean how f OP is this shit in PvP?

[istroxpro]

Can say for sure that GBoM doesn't count for paladin in BGs

[Teleros]

But whats the point of crusade talent?

Eh, it may yet be a DPS increase comparable to Divine Purpose. I'll let others with better maths skills say for sure though.

= + =

Oh and also prot gets 25% heal every 8 sec...on top of being PROT, i mean how f OP is this shit in PvP?

I thought LotP etc was a % of missing health, rather than a % of total health...?

[Celebhil]

i notice there is a raid finder set again; that and a 20% boost to finishers as our set bonus is going to be a big crutch..aka mandatory to get asap (and raid finder will be a convenient way to grind out trinkets or set pieces you dont have yet)

has blizzard said anything about the bug with fires of justice being consumed by divine purpose?

[Deleted]

But Zeal IS just as good as TFoJ. TFoJ filling in your dead globals does not make it better, in fact, it diminishes TFoJ's value. The more active time we have, the less time we will have to fit in those more frequent CS's, and thus receive fewer procs. Zeal being slow and hard hitting allows it to have more flexibility due to external circumstances, like downtime, additional set bonus proc sources (like our t19 4 pc), etc.

Also, some proof based off of preliminary sims: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...fine.html?dl=0

Sure, but you are thinking of gear levels and future scaling. Seeing how secondaries seem to be hitting ridiculous values in Legion, i am sure that the inflex point will come where fires is not benefiting from further haste the way zeal does. But that is the future. The now, on the PTR and i'm guessing early legion zeal will be worse because theres just too much downtime. Once that isn't an issue, then sure i can see it getting better.

[Chaosinciter]

i notice there is a raid finder set again; that and a 20% boost to finishers as our set bonus is going to be a big crutch..aka mandatory to get asap (and raid finder will be a convenient way to grind out trinkets or set pieces you dont have yet)

has blizzard said anything about the bug with fires of justice being consumed by divine purpose?

None yet, or the bug that Execution Sentence just flat out doesn't consume Fires of Justice, but benefits from it.

[Solsacra]

Sure, but you are thinking of gear levels and future scaling. Seeing how secondaries seem to be hitting ridiculous values in Legion, i am sure that the inflex point will come where fires is not benefiting from further haste the way zeal does. But that is the future. The now, on the PTR and i'm guessing early legion zeal will be worse because theres just too much downtime. Once that isn't an issue, then sure i can see it getting better.

These tests were performed with a balanced stat budget appropriate for 810 item level. That's entry level item levels for Heroic Dungeons. It's also true that a full Artifact is unlocked in these sims, but as the traits all affect the abilities at the same rate, it's still roughly proportional to that which you would observe without them.

[Deleted]

These tests were performed with a balanced stat budget appropriate for 810 item level. That's entry level item levels for Heroic Dungeons. It's also true that a full Artifact is unlocked in these sims, but as the traits all affect the abilities at the same rate, it's still roughly proportional to that which you would observe without them.

Fair enough. We can expect to hit the inflex point during the early first tier then. Thats good cause on the PTR zeal is awfully painful to use.

Its a shame that Blizz changed the way secondaries scale. It would've been interesting to see how a crit build with fires would fare versus a haste build with zeal.

[Demsi]

So i got some more time to spend on PTR...meh Ret rotation is just soooooooooooooo f boring and clunky without RNG. But think what amazed me the most, is that after goofing around on Ret, i decided to try Prot (last time i plaid prot PvP/PvE was s7) and prot game play felt much more smooth and much more enjoyable to my Ret's hearth than Ret's game play on PTR. Also Ret maybe pools ahead from Prot on sustain, but with prot if u line up serph+Wings i got some sick burst from Avg Shield, which was higher burst than i had on my Ret( i specked 50% more dmg on 1st row talents)... its kinda funny but i find Prot to be more of a Ret, than Ret spec itself XD

Oh and also prot gets 25% heal every 8 sec...on top of being PROT, i mean how f OP is this shit in PvP?

The heal prot gets scales with missing hp, and it's honestly not that strong, atleast not on the ptr, it might be better with artifact weapon

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Fair enough. We can expect to hit the inflex point during the first tier then. Thats good cause on the PTR zeal is awfully painful to use.

Its a shame that Blizz changed the way secondaries scale. It would've been interesting to see how a crit build with fires would fare versus a haste build with zeal.

It was my understanding that the way secondaries were changed, it was so at lower levels would *feel good*. I was super skeptical about that. So far I'm convinced that hasn't happened. At least for Paladins anyways. It may differ from class. Whenever Zeal hits 3.00 second CD/Recharge I'll switch talents whenever that occurs in the first tier.

My reasoning is because, when I'm waiting for things to get off cooldown, I get more bored. It frustrates me and the game becomes less enjoyable. I am not bad or wrong to feel this way so Fires of Justice will be my go to.


Of course that doesn't really alleviate all of the flaws Ret has right now. Our movement sucks, Hand of Hinderance costs way too much mana IMO. Yeah it's 70% for 10 seconds with a 30 second CD but it still isn't going to feel good either way. You will still be slowed. It may not even work on Skull(Bosses) enemies so it'd be pointless. I can't really see it being super good in PVP either. It's very costly. You'd be better off using Ashes to Ashes as a slow.

I'd rather have something like Hand of Freedom or Pursuit of Justice to have something else to have decent mobility. Not god tier like Demon Hunters. Also I think Blade of Justice should only generate one HP and be on a lower cooldown. So our rotation flows better. I think it's better that way instead of waiting super long. It'd also help with our ranged capabilities. Let's be honest, Blade of Justice acts like a ranged attack despite the name sounds like a melee spell.

Which is odd.

[NFbioVapor]

Looks like there has been some changes since WotLK.... lol!

[garonne]

I know exactly how stats will work. What i have said and you ignored is that i don't know how much is atainable at lvl110. If you have beta why don't you tell us your lvl110 stats? I really doubt you will have 20+% haste on the first tier.

i didn't ignore it, i said

just gonna base the stat part on your ignorance. 20% haste is easily attainable in the first tier.

but i guess it wasn't clear enough.
this is a raid test from yesterday
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...mmary&fight=21

i dont have a 110 on beta, however, you can look at the characters who are scaled to 879 and their stat rating. to get 20% stat of a rating at 110 you need about 6500-7000 rating depending on mastery, haste or crit. you'll see that everyone has 1 stat rating that is over this number with others close to it or some with 2 over it and another no where close. I said easily attainable before and the easy part was a bit of a hyperbole, however, it is attainable by the first raid tier with atleast 1 stat.

Also, negativity? No, i'm sick of the merry go round that alpha testers took us on cause they were too afraid to be honest and lose their privileges and left us in this mess. This spec isn't good and if you are not clear about it, Blizz devs will just carry on like theres no problem.
Ret is not the only spec i'm trying you know. It's terrible in comparison to the others. It's not even the best single target melee as of now and it lacks all the burst AoE tools it used to have. There is a reason why many of us are unsatisfied. Don't give me negativity. Its realism. This is bad and i'm not gonna sugar coat it like it isn't. I play other melee classes and they are not only more fun, but better at it. Sorry that i want to get that message across to see if blizz can still salvage something.

you were being negative because, youre finding problems where there are none. I AM NOT SAYING THE CLASS DOES NOT HAVE PROBLEMS. in fact, here is a direct quote from me

overall, im probably (90% chance) not playing my pally in legion as ive just found other classes/specs more fun + i dont like having 1 dps spec. but even after saying that, i think the spec will be fine. it has its issues in the talent tree (cons, VB/BoW, holy wrath) and it dependence on Wake of ashes with ashes to ashes and haste does make or break the class as without either it feels like a shitty diaper.

now, you said we lack all the burst aoe tools we used to have. this is just completely false, wake of ashes is better than any aoe we had before. only thing that was better was divine storm in wrath (specifically ulduar). as well as giving us holy power to use divine storm. not only that, divine storm is scaled higher and in turn doesn't need procs like wod to produce equivalent damage.

you're unsatisfied, and so am I, however, i can still see the class working and depending on tuning could make the damage problems go away. i dont pvp and thats a whole different ball game with its own problems so if those are your issues i have little comment/knowledge on that.

just saw this as well

26% haste with 822 IL at 110

[Snegovik]

Hm maybe, i didnt pay attention, was too busy pumping up the dmg numbers =). but even with 25% of missing health is still insane good for 8 sec cd, u know )?

- - - Updated - - -

The heal prot gets scales with missing hp, and it's honestly not that strong, atleast not on the ptr, it might be better with artifact weapon

by itself its not strong, but i was thinking long term match in arena, its still far better than what ret has, It just amused me that a Prot spec has instant heals and its alr hard to kill appose to Ret with Wog only if u spec into it or JV which is a bit gimmic since it does not works vs absorbs

[garonne]

It was my understanding that the way secondaries were changed, it was so at lower levels would *feel good*. I was super skeptical about that. So far I'm convinced that hasn't happened. At least for Paladins anyways. It may differ from class. Whenever Zeal hits 3.00 second CD/Recharge I'll switch talents whenever that occurs in the first tier.

i dont think you understand what you're asking for. that requires 66% haste. not only that, you have charges, bow, judgment, tv and wake to fill other empty gcds, you dont need to hit zeal EVERY other gcd. im amazed you didnt think this out.