1. #5641
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    ...blatantly prejudice and slander hundreds of millions of completely innocent people based on the actions of a few.
    An few questions seem relevant:

    How many Islamist nations have set the penalty for homosexuality as death?
    In the best available polls, what percentage of Muslims worldwide condemn homosexuality?
    How many people would be required to say that it's more than "a few"? That is, would a couple hundred million be sufficient?

  2. #5642
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    An few questions seem relevant:

    How many Islamist nations have set the penalty for homosexuality as death?
    In the best available polls, what percentage of Muslims worldwide condemn homosexuality?
    How many people would be required to say that it's more than "a few"? That is, would a couple hundred million be sufficient?
    None of these really matter, since none of them inform you on the views of any particular Muslim. That's the point. Trying to find statistical grounds to justify your prejudice does not make it not-prejudice.

    This isn't really any different from saying "I don't hire black people because look at crime stats! They're just more criminal and violent than whites!" The only difference is that you're being hateful based on the combination of their ethnicity and religion, rather than race alone.


  3. #5643
    Deleted
    Daily reminder that the whole field of statistics is irrelevant because they don't apply to individual cases. Brb informing my maths department.

  4. #5644
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    None of these really matter, since none of them inform you on the views of any particular Muslim. That's the point. Trying to find statistical grounds to justify your prejudice does not make it not-prejudice.

    This isn't really any different from saying "I don't hire black people because look at crime stats! They're just more criminal and violent than whites!" The only difference is that you're being hateful based on the combination of their ethnicity and religion, rather than race alone.
    Well, I didn't think I was going to get a straight answer, but turning it into an accusation of racism is impressively dishonest even by your usual standards.

    I'm not sure where the "hate" is in my post though. Are you sure you're not just using the word as a nonsensical stand-in for disagreement?

  5. #5645
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starquake View Post
    Daily reminder that the whole field of statistics is irrelevant because they don't apply to individual cases. Brb informing my maths department.
    Have you ever taken statistics?

    Because if you have a bag of stones, 90% red, and 10% white, statistics can tell you there's a 90% chance that the next stone you pull is red. It can't tell you what color the next stone you're going to pull out will be. And it doesn't make the white stones less white.


  6. #5646
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    No, that would just mean they aren't Catholic.

    The problem is you folks have no idea what a "core tenet" actually is, and want to blatantly prejudice and slander hundreds of millions of completely innocent people based on the actions of a few.

    What you folks are essentially doing is making the same false and hateful argument made by, say, some Baptists (to just pick a sect at random), when they say that no other branches of Christianity are "real Christians", because of differences on non-core elements of theology. When the truth is that no matter how widely varied they are, they're all "Christian", and none of them is "more Christian" than any other.
    But, 0% of Christians believe in Jihad. Yes, it's unfair to paint all of Islam with the terrorist brush. But, you can't deny that nearly all current terrorism going on around the world, is due to radical Islam. At this moment in time, terrorism = a Muslim issue, with only rare exception.

  7. #5647
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Well, I didn't think I was going to get a straight answer, but turning it into an accusation of racism is impressively dishonest even by your usual standards.
    Religious discrimination is only different from racial discrimination due to the specific characteristic which is used to be discriminatory. Would you have preferred if I used anti-semitism as the example, because that's more similar?


  8. #5648
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Have you ever taken statistics?

    Because if you have a bag of stones, 90% red, and 10% white, statistics can tell you there's a 90% chance that the next stone you pull is red. It can't tell you what color the next stone you're going to pull out will be. And it doesn't make the white stones less white.
    If I have two bags of stones, one of which is 10% red and the other which is 0.1% red, I'm not a vile bigot for noticing that one bag is different from the other. Well, maybe I am now - it's hard to keep up with what the rules are for being a non-bigot in good standing.

  9. #5649
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    What? No riveting discussion about how he was not actually on a watchlist?

    I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.
    But the watch list is being punted around as a "key" to help stop terrorists from getting a firearm!
    So, if what you say/show is true, then the watch list would have done nothing in the case of this shooter,the San Bernadino couple ...and just used to strip the rights of people with ZERO due process(just get a judge to sign off on it,like a search warrent...that is all I want!) and NO clearly defined way to remove your name (Unless you are a Senator...then you just lean on people).

    Well it is ok though, the politicians can show they "did something" by making another law that does nothing...other than deny people the rights they have without due process.
    We will get rid of all those pesky Rights eventually, they just get in the way of things.
    Yay ! Go team!

  10. #5650
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Religious discrimination is only different from racial discrimination due to the specific characteristic which is used to be discriminatory. Would you have preferred if I used anti-semitism as the example, because that's more similar?
    I would have preferred that you answered the fucking questions rather than dishonestly dodging them and slandering my character. You claimed that it's "a few" people. The answers to those questions make it clear that you're lying. Stop lying. You're a liar.

  11. #5651
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    But, 0% of Christians believe in Jihad. Yes, it's unfair to paint all of Islam with the terrorist brush. But, you can't deny that nearly all current terrorism going on around the world, is due to radical Islam. At this moment in time, terrorism = a Muslim issue, with only rare exception.
    If you translate "Jihad", then there's a hell of a lot of Christians who do believe in it. And again; that "terrorism" is mostly deriving from one region in the world, which isn't even the majority population of Muslims, worldwide. It's geopolitical, not religious in nature.


  12. #5652
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    What? No riveting discussion about how he was not actually on a watchlist?

    I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.
    Probably because it was brought up before already.
    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    This guy wasnt on a watch list, at least at the time he bought the firearms. The FBI determined he had no actionable offense and the investigation was dropped. He was deemed by the Feds to not be a threat. There really isnt much you can do about that. Unless we flag everyone who has ever been under an investigation.

  13. #5653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I would preferred that you answered the fucking questions rather than dishonestly dodging them. You claimed that it's "a few" people. The answers to those questions make it clear that you're lying. Stop lying.
    The questions you're asking are loaded. You may as well be asking stuff like "When did you stop beating your wife?" Ask honest questions, that have actual relevance, and I won't mind answering them. Ask loaded questions that are only intended to build a false front to defend hate, and I'm going to ignore them, for the same reasons I would if you asked me "how many Jews are in leading positions in Hollywood" or the like.


  14. #5654
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If you translate "Jihad", then there's a hell of a lot of Christians who do believe in it. And again; that "terrorism" is mostly deriving from one region in the world, which isn't even the majority population of Muslims, worldwide. It's geopolitical, not religious in nature.
    But none of the other religions from said region are engaging in terrorism. If you want to say its a problem with Arab Muslims, then that's fine. But to say it has just nothing to do with religion is just crazy talk. These ignorant fools were corrupted by others who intentionally misinterpret the words of a holy book. Religion is at the very core of the issue, but the issue is not the fault of the religion.

  15. #5655
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The questions you're asking are loaded. You may as well be asking stuff like "When did you stop beating your wife?" Ask honest questions, that have actual relevance, and I won't mind answering them. Ask loaded questions that are only intended to build a false front to defend hate, and I'm going to ignore them, for the same reasons I would if you asked me "how many Jews are in leading positions in Hollywood" or the like.
    How does noticing that one group has more problems mean you hate them?

  16. #5656
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The questions you're asking are loaded. You may as well be asking stuff like "When did you stop beating your wife?" Ask honest questions, that have actual relevance, and I won't mind answering them. Ask loaded questions that are only intended to build a false front to defend hate, and I'm going to ignore them, for the same reasons I would if you asked me "how many Jews are in leading positions in Hollywood" or the like.
    The term "loaded question" doesn't mean "question that has answers that make me uncomfortable". Again, your claim is that this is a "few" people. This is nonsense. Many gay people are killed because of Islamic laws. There are hundreds of millions of people living in Islamic nations that criminalize homosexuality. There is significant support for these policies in these countries.

    If your response to this is once again, "yeah, well, you're a racist", the only thing you're establishing is that you're more concerned with signaling your anti-racist bona fides that actually rejecting anti-gay ideologies and that you're happy to lie to do so.

    You're also using "hate" in a completely incoherent fashion. The only thing I've expressed hatred for is your insistence on lying all the time.

  17. #5657
    Over 250 terroist attacks in over 30 nation the last 30 days by islamic terrorists, hmm.

  18. #5658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    But none of the other religions from said region are engaging in terrorism. If you want to say its a problem with Arab Muslims, then that's fine. But to say it has just nothing to do with religion is just crazy talk. These ignorant fools were corrupted by others who intentionally misinterpret the words of a holy book. Religion is at the very core of the issue, but the issue is not the fault of the religion.
    They're also the religious group in geopoliitical control of the region, and the majority population. It's hardly surprising they make up the majority of anything, in that region.

    It was mostly Irish Catholics who were responsible for the IRA attacks and bombings. Does that mean all Irish people are terrorists? That all Catholics the world over are? They were active in recent history, too, so don't pretend that this is ancient history, or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hana Song View Post
    How does noticing that one group has more problems mean you hate them?
    When you blame those problems on their identity, rather than the context in which they live, you're attacking everyone who shares that identity, rather than just attacking those responsible for whatever issue you're talking about.

    That's the literal definition of prejudice.


  19. #5659
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    When you blame those problems on their identity, rather than the context in which they live, you're attacking everyone who shares that identity, rather than just attacking those responsible for whatever issue you're talking about.

    That's the literal definition of prejudice.
    You are conflating hate with prejudice?

  20. #5660
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    The term "loaded question" doesn't mean "question that has answers that make me uncomfortable". Again, your claim is that this is a "few" people. This is nonsense. Many gay people are killed because of Islamic laws. There are hundreds of millions of people living in Islamic nations that criminalize homosexuality. There is significant support for these policies in these countries.
    Which only matters when discussing those particular countries. You can't use that to talk about Islam in general. Because then you'd have to include countries like Turkey and Jordan, which don't criminalize homosexuality, and who for most of their history have been more tolerant on that point than the USA and other nations in the West, even though Turkey's a Muslim nation.


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