What is Rape Culture?

[Underverse]

Most of your argument just boils down to saying "no," but there are a few things I want to address. This is exactly what is meant by rape culture: a victim is scared to come forward with an allegation because they know they would be punished for it, which is exactly what many people in this forum are arguing for, so she simply does not come forward. The government saying she was not raped is not the same as her not being raped.

As far as starting out innocent, I'm not sure you know what the word means. If I kill someone and don't get caught, does that mean there was no murder in your view? Should the family of the victim be forced to attend counseling until they agree that there was no murder? Do you see how absurd your position is? You are confusing two ideas. If you are acquitted, it means that you are innocent for purposes of sentencing. It doesn't magically make the crime disappear or a dead body come back to life.

Are you arguing in favor of zero consequences for demonstrably false allegations? I'm confused.

[Huulo]

Are you arguing in favor of zero consequences for demonstrably false allegations? I'm confused.

You didn't answer any of my questions, but no I am not. Unless you are arguing that any rape accusation that does not result in a conviction is a false accusation (some people on this forum have made that explicit argument, the 88% figure). Recanting under pressure or otherwise being unable to testify does not prove that an accusation is false. Crazily enough, I think that proving an accusation false (with physical evicence or eye witness testimony) proves an accusation false. And, for the fourth or fifth time, I am not arguing for a different standard of proof for conviction.

[Hana Song]

There is no culture of rape anywhere

[Underverse]

You didn't answer any of my questions, but no I am not. Unless you are arguing that any rape accusation that does not result in a conviction is a false accusation (some people on this forum have made that explicit argument, the 88% figure). Recanting under pressure or otherwise being unable to testify does not prove that an accusation is false. Crazily enough, I think that proving an accusation false (with physical evicence or eye witness testimony) proves an accusation false. And, for the fourth or fifth time, I am not arguing for a different standard of proof for conviction.

What questions? Feel free to pose them again, I didn't see them.

Of course it's ridiculous to say that non-convictions are false.

[xdmemes]

Stop living under a rock.

Are you one of those Tumblrites that scream "educate yourself" or throw out any random buzzword instead of presenting actual facts and arguments?

[Huulo]

What questions? Feel free to pose them again, I didn't see them.

Of course it's ridiculous to say that non-convictions are false.

My questions from before:

If I kill someone and don't get caught, does that mean there was no murder in your view? Should the family of the victim be forced to attend counseling until they agree that there was no murder? Do you see how absurd your position is? You are confusing two ideas. If you are acquitted, it means that you are innocent for purposes of sentencing. It doesn't magically make the crime disappear or a dead body come back to life.

Keep in mind, that's the bulk of what I've been arguing against in this thread.

[Underverse]

My questions from before:

If I kill someone and don't get caught, does that mean there was no murder in your view? Should the family of the victim be forced to attend counseling until they agree that there was no murder? Do you see how absurd your position is? You are confusing two ideas. If you are acquitted, it means that you are innocent for purposes of sentencing. It doesn't magically make the crime disappear or a dead body come back to life.

No and I never made any claims to the contrary. I think you might be confusing me with someone else.

[May90]

I wonder how female on male rape works. Somebody who knows? Since the man can just overpower her with ease if it gets uncomfortable i think.

Try to overpower Laila Ali. Or someone who holds a gun to your throat or a pistol to your head. Or someone who bound you to an iron bed and uses you once every day (I've heard of one such real case in Russia). Plenty of options!

[Huulo]

No and I never made any claims to the contrary. I think you might be confusing me with someone else.

You're right, that's because the questions were for GoblinP. I got confused when you responded to them, my bad.

[THE Bigzoman]

The whole Brock Turner case.

"She was drunk so it was partly her fault."

"He was drunk so we should be lenient."

"He's an athlete so we should be lenient."

"This whole ordeal has potentially ruined his life, his chance at swimming, he no longer eats, all for twenty minutes of action! (all while ignoring the effect on the victim.)"

The last one:

People tend to go to bat for their kin, even when they do something wrong. Many deny that their loved ones did anything wrong.

Well, no shit. That doesn't mean they trivalizie or condone rape. They just don't like seeing their loved ones suffer

[Theodarzna]

What is rape culture?.......

Its another Unsolved Mystery,



Is it what it says it is? For every mystery, there is somewhere, someone, who knows the truth. Perhaps that someone is reading now. Perhaps... it's you?

[THE Bigzoman]

I've seen mixed evidence, I see your Catholic Church and raise you Duke Lacrosse, UVA, and Mattress Girl. As a society we are quick to grab the torches and pitchforks over rape allegations. As for Brock Turner, I wonder why he has become the cause celebre on Facebook, Twitter, and the Media when way before him we had James Winston? Yet the usual suspects never latched onto that case? Why? Probably because James Winston was a black football player and that would break the usual narrative, thank the heavens Brock Turner was at last the evil cis-male white devil we've all been hearing you lot bang on about for years. At long last you finally have your ideal rapist, it only took dozens of tries.

There's almost zero basis in believing Jameis Winston did anything except get his dick sucked by a willing participant.

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Is it really that hard to tell rape from consensual sex in most cases though? When rape takes place, there are always signs of struggle, such as scratches, bruises, etc. I would think a medical examination soon after the rape accusation has been made would be enough most of the time for the court to see the whole picture.

But yes, there are certainly cases in which the only evidence we have is the words of the victim; in such cases, indeed, a rapist might get away. How common those cases though are is everybody's guess.

In a world with rough sex and BDSM, there's a degree of plausible deniability in those areas as well.

[Theodarzna]

There's almost zero basis in believing Jameis Winston did anything except get his dick sucked by a willing participant.

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In a world with rough sex and BDSM, there's a degree of plausible deniability in those areas as well.

That is true, but there was zero evidence the boys of Duke's Lacrosse team did anything either, but that got them zero reprieve, OR the UVA fraternity, OR the guy in the Mattress Girl case.

IMHO, had Winston been the preferred suspect he would still be suspect to this day.

[THE Bigzoman]

If the standard for making someone the ultimate villain is a mere accusation, James Winston should have been burned in a wicker suite by now or at the very least been given the bees. The boys at the fraternity in the UVA case didn't do shit, didn't save them from it. Neither did that Lacrosse team do anything.

ol' Brock was thankfully definitively guilty and thankfully a dreaded cis-white male shitlord. He was at long last the devil we have been looking for.

Except people did try to hang Winston to dry. The accusation + the crab legs+ the outburst almost spelled the end of his NFL Prospects

They just weren't successful because Winston looked so promising as a QB that a team was willing to take the character gamble.

[Hana Song]

umm Islam?

How is islam a culture of rape?

[Lilija]

How is islam a culture of rape?

It justifies rape especiy - especially on non-muslim women, who don't cover themselves.

[Cosmic Janitor]

It justifies rape especiy - especially on non-muslim women, who don't cover themselves.

The marry the rapist and die if you don't try to get away enough or too much part is also fairly condemning.

[Deleted]

Most of your argument just boils down to saying "no," but there are a few things I want to address. This is exactly what is meant by rape culture: a victim is scared to come forward with an allegation because they know they would be punished for it, which is exactly what many people in this forum are arguing for, so she simply does not come forward. The government saying she was not raped is not the same as her not being raped.

In a legal sense, Yes it is - The Qatari justice system made that decision.

As far as starting out innocent, I'm not sure you know what the word means.

It means, You are innocent.

If I kill someone and don't get caught, does that mean there was no murder in your view?

No, it means you are innocent of the murder, not that the murder magically didn't happen.

Should the family of the victim be forced to attend counseling until they agree that there was no murder? Do you see how absurd your position is?

seeing as how you completely made it up out of thin air, sure.

You are confusing two ideas. If you are acquitted, it means that you are innocent for purposes of sentencing. It doesn't magically make the crime disappear or a dead body come back to life.

No you are the one sporting the false equivalence.
Innocence specifically relate to legal guilt, or rather lack of it.
It in no way whatsoever relates to the objective truth.
O.J Simpson is innocent of killing his wife.

[TheImperios]

It is when rape is justifies and the victim is blamed for allowing herself (or himself) to be raped.

Rome for example was a rape culture where the definition of rape was merely "adultery", and the husband had full rights to rape his wife.

Rape culture is present, albeit in a greatly weakened form, in Western culture where we often blame girls for being date raped. More so in Middle Eastern and SSAfrican cultures where this is more prevalent, albeit still not to the extent of ancient civilisations.

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It justifies rape especiy - especially on non-muslim women, who don't cover themselves.

Islam is not a culture, it encompasses several. Some of these have stronger rape culture, others more in line with Western expectations.

[Deleted]

You didn't answer any of my questions, but no I am not. Unless you are arguing that any rape accusation that does not result in a conviction is a false accusation (some people on this forum have made that explicit argument, the 88% figure).

Yeah and there is the 98% of rapist never see jail figure bandied about - Its a worse figure actually, but it does the exact same thing, assigns all murky cases in the middle to one side (including ones who get acquitted) and then pretend that number has significance.

And, for the fourth or fifth time, I am not arguing for a different standard of proof for conviction.

There has been an ongoing battle for moving due process in the west for the last 50 years - Always in the direction of less of it, and only by feminists for rape.