Venezuela's Crash: There's No Toilet Paper In Caracas

[Theinquisition]

Nailed it

http://www.investors.com/politics/co...-its-supplies/

ocialism has found in Venezuela the bottom that socialism always finds. The country is now running out of toilet paper. And food. And medicine. All this want in an extraordinarily oil-rich nation with eight times the crude reserves found in the U.S. and maybe the most in the world.

Venezuela is Bernie Sanders' kind of country. The semi-Democrat likes to say that the version of socialism he advocates is the sort found in Scandinavia, where everyone is taken care of. But the fact is those countries tried welfare statism and found that it didn't work.

Unlike unrepentant cranks such as Sanders -- blame George Orwell, not us, for tagging socialists with the "crank" label -- these countries repented of their evil economic ways. Sweden has reformed its system, while Denmark has told Sanders to stop smearing its market economy as a socialist program in which "it is very hard to become very, very rich, but it's pretty hard to be very, very poor."

Neither one is fully a capitalist nation -- no country, not even the U.S., is -- but they have moved on from their socialist mistakes.

So Sanders is stuck with Venezuela. He's even been named by the country's president Nicolas Maduro as "our revolutionary friend."


But he's tried to create some distance between its failure and his never-ending high-school fixation with government-mandated fairness. When asked about the country's socialist crash, he avoided answering a hard but highly relevant question by saying, "I am very interested, but right now I'm running for president of the United States."

Earlier in the campaign Sanders said he was "not looking at Venezuela ... not looking at Cuba" when endorsing "democratic socialism." But that's the new Bernie Sanders who's running for president and can't afford to appear to be the radical he is. The truth is, Paul Sperry writes, Sanders has a "radical pro-communist past" and even took "goodwill" trips to the U.S.S.R., Cuba and Sandinista Nicaragua. He has also recommended Castro and the Daniel Ortega regime in Managua.

Socialism is actually just another name for misery. Everywhere it's been genuinely tried, the people it's supposed to have benefited have suffered: Venezuela, Cuba, Red China, the Soviet Union. Maybe Sanders' rabid supporters would be willing to help the deprived of Venezuela by sending them toilet paper, which capitalist nations have in abundance. They could even send deodorant, too -- but it would have to be a single brand.

Remember, Sanders is the bossy nabob who has gone on record as saying Americans "don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants." Yes, that's socialism -- and someone who's never outgrown his teen fling with the myth of a worker's paradise -- talking.

[Afrospinach]

Shit just got real

[Underverse]

This is a stupid partisan opinion piece. The problem is central planning of economies with insufficient information. Not socialist ideology at its core - which works extremely well when incorporated into developed nations such as the US.

[Theinquisition]

Shit just got real

definitely going down in the dm's

[May90]

Venezuela is a dictatorship. Dictatorships tend to end up badly, regardless of the economical system they feature; Venezuelan model is just extremely ineffective and ultra-centralized, aimed to serve the interests of the ruling class. Saying that Venezuela is an argument against democratic socialism is like saying that modern Russia is an argument against democratic capitalism.

Also, I see no reason to dig in Sanders' past; people change, their preferences change, political views change.

That said, I don't support Sanders, and I do not like the government to interfere in economy too much - but your point of criticism doesn't seem very relevant to me.

[Deleted]

Nailed it

http://www.investors.com/politics/co...-its-supplies/

ocialism has found in Venezuela the bottom that socialism always finds. The country is now running out of toilet paper. And food. And medicine. All this want in an extraordinarily oil-rich nation with eight times the crude reserves found in the U.S. and maybe the most in the world.

Venezuela is Bernie Sanders' kind of country. The semi-Democrat likes to say that the version of socialism he advocates is the sort found in Scandinavia, where everyone is taken care of. But the fact is those countries tried welfare statism and found that it didn't work.

Unlike unrepentant cranks such as Sanders -- blame George Orwell, not us, for tagging socialists with the "crank" label -- these countries repented of their evil economic ways. Sweden has reformed its system, while Denmark has told Sanders to stop smearing its market economy as a socialist program in which "it is very hard to become very, very rich, but it's pretty hard to be very, very poor."

Neither one is fully a capitalist nation -- no country, not even the U.S., is -- but they have moved on from their socialist mistakes.

So Sanders is stuck with Venezuela. He's even been named by the country's president Nicolas Maduro as "our revolutionary friend."


But he's tried to create some distance between its failure and his never-ending high-school fixation with government-mandated fairness. When asked about the country's socialist crash, he avoided answering a hard but highly relevant question by saying, "I am very interested, but right now I'm running for president of the United States."

Earlier in the campaign Sanders said he was "not looking at Venezuela ... not looking at Cuba" when endorsing "democratic socialism." But that's the new Bernie Sanders who's running for president and can't afford to appear to be the radical he is. The truth is, Paul Sperry writes, Sanders has a "radical pro-communist past" and even took "goodwill" trips to the U.S.S.R., Cuba and Sandinista Nicaragua. He has also recommended Castro and the Daniel Ortega regime in Managua.

Socialism is actually just another name for misery. Everywhere it's been genuinely tried, the people it's supposed to have benefited have suffered: Venezuela, Cuba, Red China, the Soviet Union. Maybe Sanders' rabid supporters would be willing to help the deprived of Venezuela by sending them toilet paper, which capitalist nations have in abundance. They could even send deodorant, too -- but it would have to be a single brand.

Remember, Sanders is the bossy nabob who has gone on record as saying Americans "don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants." Yes, that's socialism -- and someone who's never outgrown his teen fling with the myth of a worker's paradise -- talking.

You got a link for that? If true he must be bloody mental.

[Dezerte]

Socialism-man strikes again.

[Shadowferal]

Idiotic opinion piece....

[Spectral]

This is a stupid partisan opinion piece. The problem is central planning of economies with insufficient information. Not socialist ideology at its core - which works extremely well when incorporated into developed nations such as the US.

Sure, but not long ago, moderately left leaning organizations like The Guardian were publishing positive pieces about Venezuela's form of socialism, like this and American leftist rags like Salon were publish glowing pieces like this. I'm fine with people that didn't participate in this shit show disavowing blame, but there really are significant chunks of the left that were really enthusiastic about Venezuela's policies.

[Sykol]

TIL: What we can expect in the next four years from Clinton or Trump.

[Underverse]

Sure, but not long ago, moderately left leaning organizations like The Guardian were publishing positive pieces about Venezuela's form of socialism, like this and American leftist rags like Salon were publish glowing pieces like this. I'm fine with people that didn't participate in this shit show disavowing blame, but there really are significant chunks of the left that were really enthusiastic about Venezuela's policies.

Sure. I'm not one of them. Venezuela has been fucked for a long time.

- - - Updated - - -

TIL: What we can expect in the next four years from Clinton or Trump.

I don't think things will change quite as drastically as you expect hem to.

[Spectral]

You got a link for that? If true he must be bloody mental.

Looks like it's from this CNBC interview with him. Full context:

HARWOOD: If the changes that you envision in tax policy, in finance, breaking up the banks, were to result in a more equitable distribution of income, but less economic growth, is that trade-off worth making?
SANDERS: Yes. If 99 percent of all the new income goes to the top 1 percent, you could triple it, it wouldn't matter much to the average middle class person. The whole size of the economy and the GDP doesn't matter if people continue to work longer hours for low wages and you have 45 million people living in poverty. You can't just continue growth for the sake of growth in a world in which we are struggling with climate change and all kinds of environmental problems. All right? You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country. I don't think the media appreciates the kind of stress that ordinary Americans are working on. People scared to death about what happens tomorrow. Half the people in America have less than $10,000 in savings. How do you like that? That means you have an automobile accident, you have an illness, you're broke. How do you retire if you have less than $10,000, and you don't have much in the way of Social Security?

The bolded actually makes his claim seem more bizarre. Does he actually believe that the choice is between footwear selection and feeding kids?

[xChurch]

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact a Bus Driver is running their country.

[Theinquisition]

You got a link for that? If true he must be bloody mental.

direct quote

"If 99 percent of all the new income goes to the top 1 percent, you could triple it, it wouldn't matter much to the average middle class person. The whole size of the economy and the GDP doesn't matter if people continue to work longer hours for low wages and you have 45 million people living in poverty. You can't just continue growth for the sake of growth in a world in which we are struggling with climate change and all kinds of environmental problems. All right? You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country."

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

A country with an economy heavily based on oil is having economic troubles during a Oil Crisis? Socialism is to blame!

[Spectral]

Venezuela is a dictatorship. Dictatorships tend to end up badly, regardless of the economical system they feature; Venezuelan model is just extremely ineffective and ultra-centralized, aimed to serve the interests of the ruling class. Saying that Venezuela is an argument against democratic socialism is like saying that modern Russia is an argument against democratic capitalism.

This just isn't true. Here, read about their recent election:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezu...election,_2015

[Theinquisition]

Venezuela is a dictatorship. Dictatorships tend to end up badly, regardless of the economical system they feature; Venezuelan model is just extremely ineffective and ultra-centralized, aimed to serve the interests of the ruling class. Saying that Venezuela is an argument against democratic socialism is like saying that modern Russia is an argument against democratic capitalism.

Also, I see no reason to dig in Sanders' past; people change, their preferences change, political views change.

That said, I don't support Sanders, and I do not like the government to interfere in economy too much - but your point of criticism doesn't seem very relevant to me.

I think Bernie has been pretty consistent in his views over the years, for better or for worse, I can at least begrudgingly give him that much respect.

- - - Updated - - -

Idiotic opinion piece....

how insightful, please, tell us more!

- - - Updated - - -

Looks like it's from this CNBC interview with him. Full context:

The bolded actually makes his claim seem more bizarre. Does he actually believe that the choice is between footwear selection and feeding kids?

what it really shows is just how ignorant he is of how modern economics work.

[Deleted]

Nailed it

http://www.investors.com/politics/co...-its-supplies/

ocialism has found in Venezuela the bottom that socialism always finds. The country is now running out of toilet paper. And food. And medicine. All this want in an extraordinarily oil-rich nation with eight times the crude reserves found in the U.S. and maybe the most in the world.

Venezuela is Bernie Sanders' kind of country. The semi-Democrat likes to say that the version of socialism he advocates is the sort found in Scandinavia, where everyone is taken care of. But the fact is those countries tried welfare statism and found that it didn't work.

Unlike unrepentant cranks such as Sanders -- blame George Orwell, not us, for tagging socialists with the "crank" label -- these countries repented of their evil economic ways. Sweden has reformed its system, while Denmark has told Sanders to stop smearing its market economy as a socialist program in which "it is very hard to become very, very rich, but it's pretty hard to be very, very poor."

Neither one is fully a capitalist nation -- no country, not even the U.S., is -- but they have moved on from their socialist mistakes.

So Sanders is stuck with Venezuela. He's even been named by the country's president Nicolas Maduro as "our revolutionary friend."


But he's tried to create some distance between its failure and his never-ending high-school fixation with government-mandated fairness. When asked about the country's socialist crash, he avoided answering a hard but highly relevant question by saying, "I am very interested, but right now I'm running for president of the United States."

Earlier in the campaign Sanders said he was "not looking at Venezuela ... not looking at Cuba" when endorsing "democratic socialism." But that's the new Bernie Sanders who's running for president and can't afford to appear to be the radical he is. The truth is, Paul Sperry writes, Sanders has a "radical pro-communist past" and even took "goodwill" trips to the U.S.S.R., Cuba and Sandinista Nicaragua. He has also recommended Castro and the Daniel Ortega regime in Managua.

Socialism is actually just another name for misery. Everywhere it's been genuinely tried, the people it's supposed to have benefited have suffered: Venezuela, Cuba, Red China, the Soviet Union. Maybe Sanders' rabid supporters would be willing to help the deprived of Venezuela by sending them toilet paper, which capitalist nations have in abundance. They could even send deodorant, too -- but it would have to be a single brand.

Remember, Sanders is the bossy nabob who has gone on record as saying Americans "don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants." Yes, that's socialism -- and someone who's never outgrown his teen fling with the myth of a worker's paradise -- talking.

As if no capitalist societies ever failed... I guess nobody remembers our recent crisis, and before that another crisis. Hell, do you evne remember the Great Depression?

And in what way has Sweden and Denmark moved away from socialism? You wanna know how that's been going for us in Sweden? Badly. Our golden age was under the Social Democratic Party, a heavily socialistic party, when they took power after decades conservatives completely fucking our country over. But what would a fucking American know about that... You think profit is the highest thing, the most important goal, whilst having less freedom than western and Northern Europe, less equality, worse health, less happy citizens.
But keep telling yourself you don't have a crippling debt, taht your government isn't owned by companies and doesn't give a shit about you.

Do you know how Rome fell? To greed, corruption, arrogance and complacency. You're right on the same path and you refuse to change. You just put your hands on your ears and close your eyes, acting like nothing needs to change.

Meanwhile, you BARELY have half your population evne participating in your faux democracy and you still have the balls to act like you've got the moral high ground.

[PC2]

This is where socialist say it has nothing to do with socialism, but if other places do bad it is due to capitalism.

[Deleted]

This is where socialist say it has nothing to do with socialism, but if other places do bad it is due to capitalism.

It's almost as if all systems can fail...