[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[siccora]

If you don't think knowing how to maximize your healing within the Virtue window is useful/relevant, that's your business I guess!

With or without shields, healing is both reactive AND proactive. Good healers know damage patterns. Nothing in using Virtue stops you from dpsing in downtime, but if you know damage is coming and you're gonna pop virtue, it's good to know how to maximize. And yes, of course, especially in mythic progression, "rotations" get disrupted, movement interferes, etc. But it's still relevant for us to think about/discuss maximum/optimal output. IMO at least. Anyway if talking about how to maximize offends you....then don't. <3

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what you discribed is more a healing combo for me, not a rotation. i understand a rotation as a repeated combination of inputs again and again without stopping beside moving and stuff. but when different scenarios accure i use heal combo x y or z to counter that. so just a misunderstanding of words.

[mcbubble]

Does anyone have a link to any logs from last week's testing?
I've seen a few where h pallies look strong from an HPS perspective.

[Taeldorian]

There is a fine difference between not having all and being constantly crap since at least Cataclysm

I think you're in the wrong class forum. Or at least the wrong spec thread.

[EzG]

Does anyone have a link to any logs from last week's testing?
I've seen a few where h pallies look strong from an HPS perspective.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to get worthwhile logs due to the weird release from body lag and random crashing. I was however keeping up with a resto shaman for a good chunk of the testing. When I wasn't specced to funnel a huge amount of tank healing I actually pulled off very decent hps. There was a disc priest in our group who had insanely inconsistent HPS and a monk who was doing even with another shaman in the group below me and the other shaman. All in all I think it was ok, but on the downside the irritating talent system was in place and I couldn't test different talents from attempt to attempt, as well as having 0 artifact points. Fail testing

[Deleted]

Does anyone have a link to any logs from last week's testing?
I've seen a few where h pallies look strong from an HPS perspective.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/all/10/all

The logs are mostly useless for drawing any comparison because of how bad the testing session was
-Blizzard did the test, just to do the test and check bosses off a list. Very few raid groups had a full 20 people inside.
-A lot of players didn't even have the Artifact Weapon equipped
-Even if players had their Artifact Weapon, there was no common number of traits, so some people had 20 while others had 1
-The usual ilvl scaling shennanigans- where using a ilvl 700 ring with a socket is better than an 850 ring because they'll both be scaled, but the socket stays, and where some trinkets go nuts

[Mikkah]

I ran my first few Mythic +5s tonight, including BRH. I did some mythic raid testing on Thurs in a PUG.

I think everyone needs to just chill out a bit. I agree our mobility is lacking. Our AOE heals and artifact powers seem a little weak. However, I find I am holding my own in hard 5 mans. Time will tell with raids....

[Tomana]

we speak from the same healing class right ?

Yes, you know, the class that was invariably nerfed by the devs while leaving disc priests and druids OP because some of the lead devs are maining them in raids. And I've been playing holy since BC.

- - - Updated - - -

I think everyone needs to just chill out a bit. I agree our mobility is lacking. Our AOE heals and artifact powers seem a little weak.

Don't worry, for mythic+ it'll be go druid or die because of mobility, AOE, and battle rez. -_-

[Tedj]

Yes, you know, the class that was invariably nerfed by the devs while leaving disc priests and druids OP because some of the lead devs are maining them in raids. And I've been playing holy since BC.

Players like you who believe Blizzard actually favors one class over another because they "main it in raids" give me the cringes. They do not do that, period.

[Tomana]

Players like you who believe Blizzard actually favors one class over another because they "main it in raids" give me the cringes. They do not do that, period.

Yeah, the only problem is, that's what is happening. Disc was OP since WOTLK and never changed (well, in Legion it'll be, but whatever, it'll be OP holy instead), same for resto druids. There were some outliers but that's the trend.

Just look at the artefact trees for shaman, druids and then paladin. The lack of effort that went into designing the latter is blatant. Or the Legion talent trees.

[Supliftz]

I don't really agree. HPS looks really good. Of course BoSac sucking is bad. But Devo has always been a useful raid cd; not as good as tranq/htt/etc but good, certainly not holding hpal back in WoD. If you aren't scared of 1-shots, Sac Aura provides a pretty potent raid cd too. So I disagree about subpar raid cds. And if your team is reasonably skilled, you could use BoP at least once in a fight to completely negate a big dmg hit on a tank; taunt with it, cancelaura when taunt debuff expires, and enjoy continuing to dps thru the bop.

Make BoSac useable, give hpal a much better movement option (ideally not competing with a thruput ability as Holy Donkey does now), and hpals will be better off, certainly. But I think the doom and gloom is overstated.

The hps isn't the problem with paladin though. It's really just their subpar raid cd (compared to everyone else) and their god awful tank cd.

this is made worse by their mobility problems

[Thundering]

The hps isn't the problem with paladin though. It's really just their subpar raid cd (compared to everyone else) and their god awful tank cd.

this is made worse by their mobility problems

Utility is the main problem for paladins and that its a boring class to heal whit, i also think that many of the spells look really boring and bad.

[HPLathus]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/all/10/all

The logs are mostly useless for drawing any comparison because of how bad the testing session was
-Blizzard did the test, just to do the test and check bosses off a list. Very few raid groups had a full 20 people inside.
-A lot of players didn't even have the Artifact Weapon equipped
-Even if players had their Artifact Weapon, there was no common number of traits, so some people had 20 while others had 1
-The usual ilvl scaling shennanigans- where using a ilvl 700 ring with a socket is better than an 850 ring because they'll both be scaled, but the socket stays, and where some trinkets go nuts

Maybe I am missing some information.


How would they not have an artifact weapon equipped? That doesn't even make sense.

[Deleted]

Thats like saying "holy priest was playable in WoD" yet nobody serious played it cause disc was much better. It doesnt matter if you are in top 20 or top 200, you will still run into the same issues and frustration regardless.

Everything is "playable" but being playable isn't what matters on progress.

If you say that paladins on beta are in the same state as holy priest in wod then ill have you call you a big liar.

[Dreamguard]

Maybe I am missing some information.


How would they not have an artifact weapon equipped? That doesn't even make sense.

For me, I test with a Horde guild, but I normally play Alliance. The realms were down all day before and the morning of testing, so I didn't take the time to prep a Horde pally to play with. I had to use the starter gear for testing. I have a 110 Pally on Alliance, but I was unlucky with the faction change options and just hadn't made a Horde pally with an Artifact.

Edit: Character Copy had just come out about an hour before testing, so some people probably tested with their normal character and didn't have a chance to finish the intro scenario and get the artifact weapon because the servers we unstable.

[Deleted]

@Guy above. There weren't any template chars for testing, and many players simply made a char 1 hour before the test and never finished the Artifact Questline. At least 5 ppl even in Serenity for example didn't have an artifact.

If you say that paladins on beta are in the same state as holy priest in wod then ill have you call you a big liar.

Holy Priests were actually in a great state in WoD Beta. The Holy Priest tier 17 bonuses were really good, and Holy Priests really only needed druids nerfed to shine(Druids did the same thing but better and had much better tank cd and raid cd). What happened was that disc as a spec backfired, and Blizzard megabuffed PWS and more or less made disc the default raiding healing priest spec-- in tier 18 for example I doubt developers even spent 10 minutes trying Holy Priest out(see H Priest Archi Trinket ).

Regarding the whole topic of it doesn't matter what class you play if you're not aiming for top 20. It matters a lot less, but it still matters. People are aware of the general performance of X class/spec up until heroic mode raid and for sure in mythic+ dungeons. Even in a much more casual end game format, like 10 man HCSoO for example, in the first 30 kills on 10 man, only 1 ret pala and 1 windwalker were in the raid .

[Jeathebelle]

The hps isn't the problem with paladin though. It's really just their subpar raid cd (compared to everyone else) and their god awful tank cd.

this is made worse by their mobility problems

Right. And by that measure hpals had a subpar raid cd in WoD too. Did that hurt them?

So it's really just the awful (to the point of nonexistent) tank cd. And of course everyone hopes they fix that. But do you really think with the widespread reduction in tank cds in general, hpals will be suboptimal solely because of no tank cd?

Remind me again what you were saying about hpals in the WoD beta. :P

[HPLathus]

For me, I test with a Horde guild, but I normally play Alliance. The realms were down all day before and the morning of testing, so I didn't take the time to prep a Horde pally to play with. I had to use the starter gear for testing. I have a 110 Pally on Alliance, but I was unlucky with the faction change options and just hadn't made a Horde pally with an Artifact.

Edit: Character Copy had just come out about an hour before testing, so some people probably tested with their normal character and didn't have a chance to finish the intro scenario and get the artifact weapon because the servers we unstable.

Thanks for clarifying.

Doesn't it seem kinda... redundant to test heroic/mythic raids without artifact? I understand people want to get into the content ASAP to experience it... but for the sake of balance/accuracy they should be taking the time to get the artifact.

[Deleted]

Thanks for clarifying.

Doesn't it seem kinda... redundant to test heroic/mythic raids without artifact? I understand people want to get into the content ASAP to experience it... but for the sake of balance/accuracy they should be taking the time to get the artifact.

Well the servers where not exactly stable. I wasn't able to log any character till the first test had 15mins left. And that was what with a server restart 2 hours before the test started. And out of the 30 people with beta access in our group we could only get 12 on. Some of them with brand new characters because they couldn't login anything else.

[Deleted]

How does Tyr's Hand of Faith interact with loh reduction from talents and artifact trait interacts?

[Supliftz]

Right. And by that measure hpals had a subpar raid cd in WoD too. Did that hurt them?

So it's really just the awful (to the point of nonexistent) tank cd. And of course everyone hopes they fix that. But do you really think with the widespread reduction in tank cds in general, hpals will be suboptimal solely because of no tank cd?

Remind me again what you were saying about hpals in the WoD beta. :P

It hurt paladin to some degree, but they were carried by overpowered numbers/utility. To my knowledge that doesn't exist in legion as of right now.

You're somewhat right about the reduction of tank cds, but that doesn't change the fact the strong healers atm either offer a strong tank cd or offer strong utility. So it is important to holy paladins viability if hosac becomes good.