Venezuela's Crash: There's No Toilet Paper In Caracas

[s_bushido]

Hey dummies, pointing out that this article is an opinion isn't an argument against it.

When that opinion includes gems like "these countries repented of their evil economic ways," I think it's a pretty good argument. Things may have changed with social media taking over the internet, but I still have some hope that actual journalism would hold to at least some standards.

[Deleted]

What happened in Venezuela has nothing to do with socialism.

[Bushtuckrman]

What happened in Venezuela has nothing to do with socialism.

top
fucking
kek

[Accelerate]

Well i wont be shaking hands with any Venezuelan's until they sort this matter out

We're not pajeets my aussie friend, we do poo in loo and wash our hands.

What happened in Venezuela has nothing to do with socialism.

This must be some bait but whatever.

>Hugo Chavez declares himself socialist
>Starts the Partido Socialista Unido de Venezuela (United Socialist party of Venezuela)
>The word socialist/socialism is slapped in every single fucking thing his Government does or says, even after his death.
>PSUV takes pride in their 18 years of Socialist Goverment.

its..its not socialism guys!!!

[Forogil]

How is bad economic managment, corruption, ect caused by socialism?

Glad you asked; bad economic management and corruption will always occur to some extent. But by having the state seize ownership and control of the means of production as part of the socialism the effect is that the more or less economically competent management is replaced by cronies of the states - so the effect of the corruption and bad economic management is amplified, and other companies are forced out of the economy. That is caused by socialism being based on a misunderstanding of the economic incentives necessary for economic growth.

Just to clarify:
Social democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, and a policy regime involving collective bargaining arrangements, a commitment to representative democracy, measures for income redistribution, regulation of the economy in the general interest and welfare state provisions.
Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production; as well as the political ideologies, theories, and movements that aim at their establishment.
Communism is an ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money, and the state. (Spoiler: It never reaches that.)

So Venezuela is socialism - Bernie Sanders is likely social democrat.

[Deleted]

you prob didnt heard but Oil was worth almost nothing a few months ago

[Deleted]

top
fucking
kek

This must be some bait but whatever.

>Hugo Chavez declares himself socialist
>Starts the Partido Socialista Unido de Venezuela (United Socialist party of Venezuela)
>The word socialist/socialism is slapped in every single fucking thing his Government does or says, even after his death.
>PSUV takes pride in their 18 years of Socialist Goverment.

its..its not socialism guys!!!

It's not bait at all. Honest question, do you guys even have any idea what socialism is? Can you explain to me how this collapse is the fault of socialism?

[VCrash]

Venezuelas crash has nothing to do with socialism. It was one of the worlds top oil exporters and one of the founding nations of OPEC. It's economy has been rocked due to the US increasing its oil production along with a few others.

Blaming Venezuela's crash on socialism is about as accurate as blaming the early American slave trade on lack of toilet paper. They aren't even remotely related.

Sorry Tony, this one is a click bait at best man unless you can come up with a nation not rocked by other factors.

Your post highlights the very reasons why Socialism was at fault.

Innovation, entrepreneurialism, sole traders, big businesses, large tax contributors, all non existent due to Socialism.

Venezuela gambled on a Government controlled oil stream for revenue.

The real World of supply and demand (a free market concoction) hit them hard, very hard.

The ability to not compete crippled Venezuela.

The blame lay directly on Socialist policy.

[Forogil]

Atleast it's positive that Americans are starting to realise, that Scandinavian countries arent socialist countries.

Hopefully.

[VCrash]

It's not bait at all. Honest question, do you guys even have any idea what socialism is? Can you explain to me how this collapse is the fault of socialism?

Well, ill explain again, in addition to my above explanation.

Socialism cripples innovation.

Venezuala had nothing of value to export, and therefore became economically worthless to the rest of the World.


Internally, everybody got lazy, means of production dropped, and resources became scarce.

Thus is a direct result of zero competition, zero innovation.

Due to Socialism.

[Forogil]

It's not bait at all. Honest question, do you guys even have any idea what socialism is? Can you explain to me how this collapse is the fault of socialism?

Yes, see post above - that explains what socialism is - and exactly how socialism made Venezuela into a house of rotten cards, and then decreasing oil prices caused the collapse of that.
That the Venezuelan boliviarian socialist revolution is socialist is just a fact.

[Independent voter]

Six Venezuelan army officers were arrested Sunday after allegedly stealing goats from a nearby farm because they were hungry, the PanAm Post reports.

The soldiers were arrested in the central region of Lara after investigators spotted an unmarked van carrying dead animals. The army officers told local law enforcement they had no choice but to steal, kill and eat the animals because their army base, Fort Manaure, had almost run out of food.

The owner of the stolen goats told police he saw the theft when it happened. Local farmers claim this was not the first time somebody stole their animals.

“Instead of protecting us, they come to kill our animals,” farmer Jaime de Dios Verde Lameda told police, according to local media. “I began to yell, ‘What’s going on?’ And they said nothing.”

Lameda said he did not fight back against the soldiers because he was afraid they might shoot him.

The food shortage has crippled industries across Venezuela. Last weekend, there were reports of mass lootings of pharmacies, shopping malls, supermarkets and food trucks, PanAm reports.

As a result, Venezuela’s Chamber of Commerce has declared most businesses now only have enough inventory to last the next 15 days.

[Deleted]

Well, ill explain again, in addition to my above explanation.

Socialism cripples innovation.

Venezuala had nothing of value to export, and therefore became economically worthless to the rest of the World.


Internally, everybody got lazy, means of production dropped, and resources became scarce.

Thus is a direct result of zero competition, zero innovation.

Due to Socialism.

How does socialism cripple innovation? Saying it is so because it is so, doesn't make it true. You have to explain it a bit better.

Venezuela had nothing of value to export? They have tons of oil. But sure, the manufactured price drop is completely the fault of socialism right? Also, where is the collapse of Saudi Arabia? Oh, the lower oil prices didn't have as much effect there because it isn't socialism but an islamic state, right?

Everybody got lazy? Do you have any sources for that? And how is this the fault of socialism?

Resources became scarce? Means of production dropped? How is this the fault of socialism? You do understand that today almost no country is self sufficient in food? When you rely on imports for food, controlled by huge corporations, what do you do when food stop coming in? You do realize Venezuela has been a US target for the past years? That they are facing internal destabliziation by US, and an economic war on them?

http://www.mintpressnews.com/details...-light/202549/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-aggr...ezuela/5433954
http://www.strategic-culture.org/new...-killings.html
http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2016/0.../Eric-Draitser

Now of course, the government is corrupt and they haven't been doing much during the years to prepare for such events. But this has nothing to do with socialism. Do you even understand what socialism is?

[Deleted]

How does socialism cripple innovation? Saying it is so because it is so, doesn't make it true. You have to explain it a bit better.

Venezuela had nothing of value to export? They have tons of oil. But sure, the manufactured price drop is completely the fault of socialism right? Also, where is the collapse of Saudi Arabia? Oh, the lower oil prices didn't have as much effect there because it isn't socialism but an islamic state, right?

Everybody got lazy? Do you have any sources for that? And how is this the fault of socialism?

Resources became scarce? Means of production dropped? How is this the fault of socialism? You do understand that today almost no country is self sufficient in food? When you rely on imports for food, controlled by huge corporations, what do you do when food stop coming in? You do realize Venezuela has been a US target for the past years? That they are facing internal destabliziation by US, and an economic war on them?

http://www.mintpressnews.com/details...-light/202549/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-aggr...ezuela/5433954
http://www.strategic-culture.org/new...-killings.html
http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2016/0.../Eric-Draitser

Now of course, the government is corrupt and they haven't been doing much during the years to prepare for such events. But this has nothing to do with socialism. Do you even understand what socialism is?

You're saying SA doesnt have economic problems ? They were smart enough to put away alot for a rainy day. The last 5-10 years they have also been branching heavily to combat the age when they won't have oil.

Venezuela exports mainly metals (steel,alumium) and oil. Both oil and steel crashed hard. Their argicultural sector is underdevoloped and ineffecient and even though they export from it they are not even self sufficient.


They did failed experiment after failed experiment like taking over companies and farm lands because "reasons" (socialism). They went full retard on their argiculture like Zimbabwe and Soviet did back in the days but Soviet even realised that if farmers don't own their lands they wont bother to dedicate themselves to it.
Fixing their currency with official exchange rate against foreign (dollars) was also stupid instead of letting the marked decide as prices just keep going up.

In other words they destroyed their economy and set the tables for a single source economy.

[Deleted]

You're saying SA doesnt have economic problems ? They were smart enough to put away alot for a rainy day. The last 5-10 years they have also been branching heavily to combat the age when they won't have oil.

Venezuela exports mainly metals (steel,alumium) and oil. Both oil and steel crashed hard. Their argicultural sector is underdevoloped and ineffecient and even though they export from it they are not even self sufficient.


They did failed experiment after failed experiment like taking over companies and farm lands because "reasons" (socialism). Fixing their currency with official exchange rate against foreign (dollars) was also stupid instead of letting the marked decide as prices just keep going up.

In other words they destroyed their economy and set the tables for a single source economy.

All you said is true. They made a lot of mistakes. I never wanted to absolve the government of anything. But they also are under attack. Internal and external. But my point is that this has nothing to do with socialism. The oil and steel crash also isn't their fault.

[Bushtuckrman]

It's not bait at all. Honest question, do you guys even have any idea what socialism is? Can you explain to me how this collapse is the fault of socialism?

Fucking hell how old are you? Are you even an adult? My sides cannot comprehend this.

[Forogil]

How does socialism cripple innovation? Saying it is so because it is so, doesn't make it true. You have to explain it a bit better.

It removes the capitalist incentives for innovation, and adapting to changing circumstances - that problem can be traced back to the start of Marx' "Das Kapital" that is based on the de-humanizing idea of seeing workers as simply replaceable cogs - including education - since it is seen as "education-worker-time".

Basically socialism cripples innovation because it doesn't understand it - and everything that it doesn't understand it stops.

Venezuela had nothing of value to export? They have tons of oil.

Exactly - they have nothing of value to export, since the oil price collapsed. And their mismanagement of the oil production, as part of the socialist control of the means of production, cause them to produce less of the oil. There is a reason fracking began in the US - because of the economic incentives.

But sure, the manufactured price drop is completely the fault of socialism right? Also, where is the collapse of Saudi Arabia? Oh, the lower oil prices didn't have as much effect there because it isn't socialism but an islamic state, right?

Oil is a lot cheaper to produce in Saudi Arabia, so the collapse of Saudi is 4-5 years away - it might be delayed even further; they are considering de-nationalizing the oil producer - i.e. avoiding the collapse by using the opposite of socialist policies.

Everybody got lazy? Do you have any sources for that? And how is this the fault of socialism?

By removing the capitalist incentives, people stop working efficiently for the actual benefit of society.

Now of course, the government is corrupt and they haven't been doing much during the years to prepare for such events. But this has nothing to do with socialism. Do you even understand what socialism is?

That has everything to do with socialism - in a capitalist society it wouldn't rely on the government for all that planning. By putting everything on the shoulders on the socialist president it is limited by the foresight of that president; not the many capitalist companies.

- - - Updated - - -

All you said is true. They made a lot of mistakes. I never wanted to absolve the government of anything. But they also are under attack. Internal and external.

The "internal attack" is part of democracy - something that is rare in socialist countries; remember that Chavez was a general of a bloody coup. The "external attack" is just a bad excuse.

But my point is that this has nothing to do with socialism. The oil and steel crash also isn't their fault.

Yes, but point has been refuted - and is simply wrong.

[Deleted]

Fucking hell how old are you? Are you even an adult? My sides cannot comprehend this.

So you have no idea about what you are talking about? Good.
@Forogil

I think you are confusing socialism with communism.

[Forogil]

So you have no idea about what you are talking about? Good.
@Forogil

I know exactly what I talk about - socialism, Venezuela, capitalism, social democrats, communism. I guess you have run out of arguments.

I think you are confusing socialism with communism.

Nope. Linked definitions of both - but socialism and communism has common roots, including Marx, even if both have older historic roots. But there are others that use "socialism" as an umbrella term - including communism, social democrats, syndicalist, etc.

[dadev]

Oil is a lot cheaper to produce in Saudi Arabia, so the collapse of Saudi is 4-5 years away - it might be delayed even further; they are considering de-nationalizing the oil producer - i.e. avoiding the collapse by using the opposite of socialist policies.
.

What? Oil is a lot more expensive to produce there. Also Saudi Arabia might collapse, but it'll happen after Europe/US collapses because they were smart enough to buy a ton of real estate and bonds in the west.