Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[Mafic]

Deeper stratagem kind of works with SnD and Ghostly Strike for more consistent DPS, but it is very ordinary and not as fun as other variations. I can see some players that like DFA going with Deeper Stratagem though and don't care for a bunch of melee attacks just for fun. However, Ghostly Strike with Roll the Bones is very inconsistent when chosen with Deeper Strategem you really miss Swordmaster and Quick Draw awarding the extra combo points and feel energy starved at times.

I can see a lot of players that use Roll the Bones avoiding using Ghostly Strike and Quick Draw given Swordmaster with Anticipation and MFD you can do multiple rolls looking for the good rolls or even fishing for True bearing.

Quick Draw combined with Anticipation is interesting storing of CP's and it feels rewarding to pool energy, but Roll the Bones RNG seems to detract from that combination. It feels better with SND, but the energy coming in from SnD is too much.

Right now, Vigor allows energy pooling waiting for the 2nd Saber Slash proc and/or Opportunity Proc of Pistol Shot. And Anticipation allows to convert that energy into store CP's to chain Run Throughs or DFA's within three globals.

[MiZeRoK]

I honestly don't see how anyone could play the spec without Anticipation. I am not sure what Blizz is thinking to be honest.

Because energy capping is an issue at higher Haste levels so having 150 will make sure you don't cap (for the most part). It also feels like you don't waste a ton of CP not having Anticipation (and if you did it feels like there is no controlling it). On top of that once you have high enough Artifact Power (at least enough to get Blurred Time) this is what combat boils down to;

1. Get True Bearing

2. Adrenaline Rush + Dreadblades

3. SABER SLASH ~> RUN THROUGH (Between the Eyes if you happened to get +Crit from your True Bearing roll)

4. MFD on CD, Adrenaline Rush on CD, Dread Blades on CD, keep True Bearing up (this is cancer)

True Bearing needs to be fixed, and not because it's broken because honestly Run Through does garbage damage (need to test with DFA).

[Mafic]

Because energy capping is an issue at higher Haste levels so having 150 will make sure you don't cap (for the most part). It also feels like you don't waste a ton of CP not having Anticipation. On top of that once you have high enough Artifact Power (at least enough to get Blurred Time) this is what combat boils down to;

1. Get True Bearing

2. Adrenaline Rush + Dreadblades

3. SABER SLASH ~> RUN THROUGH (Between the Eyes if you happened to get +Crit from your True Bearing roll)

4. MFD on CD, Adrenaline Rush on CD, Dread Blades on CD, keep True Bearing up (this is cancer)

True Bearing needs to be fixed.

Yeah it definitely favors Vigor when you have better gear and Blurred Time. As I feared it looks like Blizz needs to address True Bearing eventually haha.

[Ickz]

I was excited to play outlaw, but roll the bones/true bearing just is just bad design imo. Rng to this extent is just annoying and constantly "rerolling" until you get true bearing just isn't compelling gameplay. I'm sure for pve, it'll probably be a little different as theorycrafters will figure out how many times you can reroll before it becomes a huge dps loss or what other buff combos are acceptable depending on which roll you're on or whatever, etc - but for PvP, it's just not going to be fun constantly focusing on rerolling until you can finally start playing and unload damage. Was looking forward to main my rogue again, but with subtlety seeming a bit clunky and assassination being a pure damage bot with limited control, I'll probably go warrrior or something.

[defury]

4. MFD on CD, Adrenaline Rush on CD, Dread Blades on CD, keep True Bearing up (this is cancer)

True Bearing needs to be fixed, and not because it's broken because honestly Run Through does garbage damage (need to test with DFA).

This right here makes the spec so incredibly awful to play, you just fish for true bearing then spend the next 45 seconds dumping cooldowns into it hoping it refreshes on the next roll. It's incredibly poorly designed and shoehorns us into Assasination (since sub is less than fun)

[Deleted]

Yeah, roll the bones is fucking awfully designed. How many sets of 5 CPs am I going to waste to find the right buff. Like it's lame. Get rid of that shit and I would enjoy the spec a lot more.

[Mafic]

When you roll Jolly Roger the pacing of the spec slows down a lot even with Swordmaster talent. With SnD it feels smoother but the energy comes in large chunks requiring you take Vigor.

I think the 40 percent attack speed buff should always rolls regardless which other combo roll you pick up.

[MiZeRoK]

This right here makes the spec so incredibly awful to play, you just fish for true bearing then spend the next 45 seconds dumping cooldowns into it hoping it refreshes on the next roll. It's incredibly poorly designed and shoehorns us into Assasination (since sub is less than fun)

The absolute worse part is that your potential damage is very easily realized. You have your auto-attacks (mediocre DMG), Main Gauche (poor DMG), Saber Slash (annoyingly good DMG), and Run-Through (medicore DMG), and you very awkwardly spam SS, cast RT, spam SS, etc. (it's awkward because you're fighting against the GCD the entire time and it severely limits your pacing and feels like you are generating way too much NRG against your input limitation).

You do all of this constant, RSI inducing spam to get numbers basically the same as Assassination but for 2000% the effort, it's no good.

When you roll Jolly Roger the pacing of the spec slows down a lot even with Swordmaster talent. With SnD it feels smoother but the energy comes in large chunks requiring you take Vigor.

I think the 40 percent attack speed buff should always rolls regardless which other combo roll you pick up.

Either the 40% NRG or ASPD buff would be fine really.

[Roiids]

I have not broken the numbers down but strictly based off how fast mobs die based on the buffs i get.

This is based also on only a few artifact talents but i would always roll at 3 combo points and keep the +40% attacks +40% crit +40% NRG even if they were rolled by themselves. Then build up points do a DFA and then reroll again with 5 points when the original 3 combo point buff was almost out. It worked pretty well. The ranking of single buffs though to me in PVE was Crit, energy, melee attack. The cooldown reduction by itself sucks because you cant generate points fast enough to make it worth it. But the crit you dish out enough damage its ok to keep and mobs die fast.

This most likely translates the same to raiding. I have TONS more testing to do but just my initial thoughts.

This was with Swordmaster, Deeper Strategem, DFA. I will say DFA starts hitting really hard at higher levels.

In dungeon packs: Blade flurry + adrenaline rush + artifact power + cooldown reducer buff + unloading DFA's = crazy damage.

I'm assuming most of the people talking about the cooldown reducer are taking Marked for death as that would drastically change the experience from what I'm talking about.

[thottstation]

Yeah, roll the bones is fucking awfully designed.

It's designed so good players cannot achieve better results than bad players, which takes away the bad players fun.

[Wyrel]

It's designed so good players cannot achieve better results than bad players, which takes away the bad players fun.

That's not the case. I guess that Blizz think that you should roll for a buff that isn't JR, and for how I see that that should be the way to use RtB.
Fishing for TB is a certainly a DPS loss, we're still in a tuning phase so I'm expecting the other buff being balanced to be competitive with TB so you're just going to roll if you get JR when you don't need heals.

[Deleted]

Are you guys using Between the Eyes in your rotation? I'm testing using it every cooldown and according to my Skada it has a higher Average Damage than Run Through, so I'm guessing it's a DPS increase?

- - - Updated - - -

Actually I guess it's only a DPS increase if you use it during Shark Infested Waters, my bad.

[Samvex]

RtB should be switched with SnD. RtB is so bad rng and TB is way op at least in pvp.

I will play Outlaw only using SnD at all. Maybe I dont get the idea behind RtB, but for me it looks like very bad gamedesing..

[Deleted]

Again on Between the Eyes, using it on cooldown with a Slice n' Dice build, some of the times it came out on top of Run Through in terms of average damage, and other times the opposite happened. Perhaps they have around the same DPS output, or perhaps depending on your Crit levels it might be worth casting BtE on cooldown.

Using BtE only during Shark Infested Waters, however, it clearly comes out on top of Run Through.

[Lucksack]

Maybe I dont get the idea behind RtB, but for me it looks like very bad gamedesing..

Wait, Blizzard making bad design choices? In 2016? Say it ain't so!!

[ymirsson]

Again on Between the Eyes, using it on cooldown with a Slice n' Dice build, some of the times it came out on top of Run Through in terms of average damage, and other times the opposite happened. Perhaps they have around the same DPS output, or perhaps depending on your Crit levels it might be worth casting BtE on cooldown.

Using BtE only during Shark Infested Waters, however, it clearly comes out on top of Run Through.

Why would it BtE better with a crit buff which should influence both skills equally?

[Typhod]

Why would it BtE better with a crit buff which should influence both skills equally?

BtE does 4 times more damage when it critically strikes.

[Wyrel]

RtB should be switched with SnD. RtB is so bad rng and TB is way op at least in pvp.

I will play Outlaw only using SnD at all. Maybe I dont get the idea behind RtB, but for me it looks like very bad gamedesing..

Playing this spec without RtB it's not playing Outlaw, sadly.

[Bryanator1989]

Hopefully Blizzard changes RtB. Way to much rng.

[Deleted]

BtE does 4 times more damage when it critically strikes.

Is the dmg scaling different at 110 than 100? On ptr the crit of bte is barely stronger than rt non crit, and when rt crits is much stronger than bte crit.