A Lesson Learned

[Deleted]

blizzard never listen to the players best to start etching that into your minds

[Heeresman]

blizzard never listen to the players best to start etching that into your minds

I don't think you know what the word 'never' means.

Hint: it's English.

[Alydael]

Tanaan was released alongside HFC, one of the best raids Blizzard has produced in recent memory. A lot of people shit on it nowadays because it's been out for so long but it was a pretty decent raid tier with plenty of memorable and unique bosses, particularly on Mythic difficulty.

You think HFC is one of the best raids? I beg to differ..... I even think BRF is better

[TheDestinatus]

You think HFC is one of the best raids? I beg to differ..... I even think BRF is better

BRF? Did you even clear BRF? It was the worst raid of all time, worse then dragon soul.

[Alydael]

blizzard never listen to the players best to start etching that into your minds

I agree. Blizzard has their "business model" that they use. All companies do it. They balance production costs vs profits and try to find a model that minimizes costs and maximizes profits (they are a "business," surprise!). They basically accept that content droughts and sub losses due to the drought will happen. They even came up with a term for it. They call it "cyclical."

Don't expect it to change. They lie to you and tell you it will be different because it will keep some people subbed longer. Most experienced players know that you can complete the patch content in a month (or even less sometimes) - unsub then resub next patch, rinse, repeat.

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BRF? Did you even clear BRF? It was the worst raid of all time, worse then dragon soul.

Don't know, I liked a lot of the fights. Bh, the furnace, hans and frans, beastmaster, the iron maidens, the train guy. I didn't like ds or hfc. Guess we have different tastes.

[TheDestinatus]

I agree. Blizzard has their "business model" that they use. All companies do it. They balance production costs vs profits and try to find a model that minimizes costs and maximizes profits (they are a "business," surprise!). They basically accept that content droughts and sub losses due to the drought will happen. They even came up with a term for it. They call it "cyclical."

Don't expect it to change. They lie to you and tell you it will be different because it will keep some people subbed longer. Most experienced players know that you can complete the patch content in a month (or even less sometimes) - unsub then resub next patch, rinse, repeat.

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Don't know, I liked a lot of the fights. Bh, the furnace, hans and frans, beastmaster, the iron maidens, the train guy. I didn't like ds or hfc. Guess we have different tastes.

I was only kidding, everything being subjective and all. Every raid is exactly the same as the last. All the pathways are linear, all the fights are the same. Pretending one bomb is different to another is just inexperience. The only thing that makes raiding entertaining is the people you do it with and high turn over rate, thats why everyone hates every last tier because they drag on too long. If it hadn't been for ruby sanctum to inject new information into WotLK then everyone would have hated ICC as well.

[Alydael]

I was only kidding, everything being subjective and all. Every raid is exactly the same as the last. All the pathways are linear, all the fights are the same. Pretending one bomb is different to another is just inexperience. The only thing that makes raiding entertaining is the people you do it with and high turn over rate, thats why everyone hates every last tier because they drag on too long. If it hadn't been for ruby sanctum to inject new information into WotLK then everyone would have hated ICC as well.

Completely agree. I raid, not for the actual raid, but for the people I do it with. I think Blizzard actually realizes this, which is why they make so many "social" features. They know that the more friends you make "in game" the more likely you are more to keep playing. there have been many times I just logged in or hopped into voice chat just to say "hello!"

[Queen of Hamsters]

I was only kidding, everything being subjective and all. Every raid is exactly the same as the last. All the pathways are linear, all the fights are the same. Pretending one bomb is different to another is just inexperience. The only thing that makes raiding entertaining is the people you do it with and high turn over rate, thats why everyone hates every last tier because they drag on too long. If it hadn't been for ruby sanctum to inject new information into WotLK then everyone would have hated ICC as well.

Oh yes, Mythic Gorefiend is the exact same as Ultraxion. Hans and Frans are the exact same as Galakras. Heroic Ragnaros the exact same as MC Rag.

Or not. If raids didn't offer variation in mechanics, require tactics and was "all about the people", it'd get pretty damned boring after a while...

[Decisive The Hallowed]

What bothers me about this is that when Blizzard explained why the last Patch of MoP lasted so long they said it was because they had "hired new game staff and needed training to get up to Blizzard standards". And so one would figure with that; with more staff, better and faster content could come out.
But nope...Blizzard's reason why WoD was a catastrophe? "Oh,we didnt have enough time/developers for this, for that"...Like really?
What happened to this "hiring new staff" business?
I thought the idea was that more staff developers could split off working on one project while the other team works on another... apparently not.

[Ashone]

And yet Final Fantasy XIV has content patches just about every 3 months .

[Deleted]

And yet Final Fantasy XIV has content patches just about every 3 months .

And yes, that's a completely different game, different server architecture, different codebase, different graphic engine.. etc etc.
While to a layman it might seem like "a video game A" equals "a video game B" - that's not really the case at all, and comparisons between two software products are incredibly hard, especially since there's almost 10 years gap between their launch dates - 10 years is a huge deal in term of tech development - and a codebase that is as old as WoW's has very different requirements (in terms of accumulated technical debt) compared to one like FFXIV.

In short, that argument is complete and utter bullshit.

Having said that - it sounds like Blizzard has realized they're unable to push yearly expacs with their legacy platform. That's fine - all I've ever asked was more realistic project management when it comes to release cycles (rushing early patches, then huge gaps). I also wish they'd consider producing smaller "content packs" (like a story based, phased event placed in one of the old-world zones) and sprinkling the releases in the gaps between larger patches. I don't always require a huge multi-gig content patch - sometimes it would be enough to get a piece of story, a quest line, some dailies and a rep faction/some cosmetic rewards).

[fenixazul]

Glad to hear that. But am I the only one who thinks that they should have learned this lesson a long time ago? It took Legion to learn it??? Really?

WOD was the first expansion with really really poor content, very rushed. MOP, at least had 3 major patches, and 2 minor patches with a decent amount of content.

[Deleted]

"When the team set out to make Legion, the goal was to solve the content drought problem by making expansions faster than they have before.
The team made sacrifices along the way to try and make Legion faster.
They discovered along the way that there is a certain amount of time that goes into making an expansion that is up to par with what players expect and deserve.
If an expansion was just some new zones and dungeons, like a bigger patch, they probably could make them faster.
When the team starts adding new systems or classes, it takes time to iterate on the new things and get them right.
The team was too ambitious with their targets when planning for Legion.
The team has learned their lesson and accepted that they can't produce an expansion faster, so the plan moving forward as they start working on the next expansion is to make sure Legion has a lot more patch content."

Glad to hear that. But am I the only one who thinks that they should have learned this lesson a long time ago? It took Legion to learn it??? Really?

Nope it took them 8 mil players what unsubbed during WoD to realize it.

[muto]

Tanaan was released alongside HFC, one of the best raids Blizzard has produced in recent memory. A lot of people shit on it nowadays because it's been out for so long but it was a pretty decent raid tier with plenty of memorable and unique bosses, particularly on Mythic difficulty.

It was good, but I still think BRF was the best raid of the expansion.

[Deleted]

It's just marketing talk. They learned jack shit. Next expansion will be just as disappointing.
It's always around the release of a new expansion where they show themselves enlightened just to make those same mistakes again next time.

[Stormspark]

Tanaan was released alongside HFC, one of the best raids Blizzard has produced in recent memory. A lot of people shit on it nowadays because it's been out for so long but it was a pretty decent raid tier with plenty of memorable and unique bosses, particularly on Mythic difficulty.

The HFC *raid* was good. Noone complained about the raid. The "content" in Tanaan was absolute total garbage. There's no way they spent more than 2 weeks making that and the shipyard. The only teams that spent more than 2 weeks on patch 6.2 were the raid encounter team, and the art team. Just because the raid was good, does not mean the patch was good, or the expansion was good. 6.2 was one of the worst patches ever made. There is more to the game than raiding.

[Cosmic Janitor]

"When the team set out to make Legion, the goal was to solve the content drought problem by making expansions faster than they have before.
The team made sacrifices along the way to try and make Legion faster.
They discovered along the way that there is a certain amount of time that goes into making an expansion that is up to par with what players expect and deserve.
If an expansion was just some new zones and dungeons, like a bigger patch, they probably could make them faster.
When the team starts adding new systems or classes, it takes time to iterate on the new things and get them right.
The team was too ambitious with their targets when planning for Legion.
The team has learned their lesson and accepted that they can't produce an expansion faster, so the plan moving forward as they start working on the next expansion is to make sure Legion has a lot more patch content."

Glad to hear that. But am I the only one who thinks that they should have learned this lesson a long time ago? It took Legion to learn it??? Really?

What a load of garbage. They needed to work on 6 expansions to realize this, where people made jokes about it after the 2nd? The project lead needs to be flogged.

[Girrag]

Until you can AFK everything by using queue things no amount of content will be enough.

[Deleted]

The HFC *raid* was good. Noone complained about the raid. The "content" in Tanaan was absolute total garbage.

The Tanaan zone was a further iteration of the Timeless Isle in MoP. It was pretty good imho. Much better than the original. The content wasn't too bad, but when you're looking at 14-18 month gap, nothing really stays very fresh.

[ComputerNerd]

You need to read some books, or go back to school. You're incredibly hard to understand with your butchery of our language.

I do have one question for you, how did Heirlooms ruin the game for people? I'm a long time WoW player, since Tier 2 raiding in Blackwing Lair. Leveling your main was an arduous, lengthy task if you maintained a life outside of WoW. However, when it came to experiencing a new class, I believe this opened up a nice avenue to level alts. What detrimental effects does it have? Please list me some so I can understand.

I do agree that LFR should be burned to the ground. At the very least, make it to where it doesn't provide any rewards other than valor or something. If people desperately need to see content let them see it without getting rewarded for it. As far as I know, that's the only reason Blizzard keeps it implemented. "For the players who can't dedicate time to traditional raiding." Why the hell those people need gear, then? Let them see the content and be done with it if that's what it's for. Epics don't feel epic anymore because of this trash system.

Then what alternative is there for players being excluded from group finder or manual pugs by inflated requirements.
LFR continues to serve a need for those people.
Those players inflating the requirements are why LFR is absolutely necessary.

And stop that utter rubbish about epics not feeling epic any longer, when they were never that.
There was never consistency even in vanilla, between world drops, crafted, and multiple tiers of "epics".
That colour even from the start never had any consistent difficulty or value attached to a given colour.

Shows how out of touch you are.
That LFR has proven hugely popular STILL with hugely nerfed gear rewards. yet you want to reduce it AGAIN.
Because there is something in that watered down experience that players are not getting anywhere else.
You make a general assumption of why it exits while ignoring what other players have frequently said on the subject.
Because you don't want to believe it.
Because there is someone who isn't blizzard, because there is someone other than the "casuals" to blame.