[BETA] Demonology Warlock Discussion

[garonne]

zPets is a good all in one. There are some WA also around that have similar functions.

thankyou, i'll try that out later tonight. do you know if thal'kiel's consumption is working? im getting no damage from it at all.

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about the target swapping and cleave for demo, i really feel the dreadstalkers should have a frontal cleave as well however in those instances currently, we'll have to spec for them.

felguard cleaves, so synergy or service when we need that option.
then we'll need to find out when darkglare is useful (2, 3 or 4+ targets)
doom for sustained cleave (die too fast = no damage)
implosion for the burst option and hand of guldan cleaves as well
and finally thal'kiel's discord cleaves (currently doesn't seem to be working or is undertuned)

im curious how strong/weak these options are.

[Baconeggcheese]

thankyou, i'll try that out later tonight. do you know if thal'kiel's consumption is working? im getting no damage from it at all.

It was doing like 500 million damage in a single cast so they might have hotfix turned it off until they can properly fix it.

[garonne]

It was doing like 500 million damage in a single cast so they might have hotfix turned it off until they can properly fix it.

oh damn. i just so happen to be scanning my logs and notice i had no damage from the spell.

[Deleted]

Quick question on rotation/priority?

If you cast a 4 bolt hand of guldan, are you supposed to use demonic empowerment or is it a damage loss? Like, do you use it at some points or every point? Or is it too early to know at this stage?

[Baconeggcheese]

Quick question on rotation/priority?

If you cast a 4 bolt hand of guldan, are you supposed to use demonic empowerment or is it a damage loss? Like, do you use it at some points or every point? Or is it too early to know at this stage?

It's looking like you use it immediately after every summon.

[Kithelle]

Is there any specific reason why the artifact weapon grants fire and shadow damage when Demo doesn't seem to do any fire damage?

[ryudaraku]

Is there any specific reason why the artifact weapon grants fire and shadow damage when Demo doesn't seem to do any fire damage?

I would guess to boost the imp's firebolts?

[Yorindesarin]

Demonic Empowerment literally doesn't need to exist. I get the idea is to make it feel like you're doing something to empower your pets, but there's absolutely zero feedback to that end, it feels entirely superfluous and unnecessary. It's probably the single worst maintenance buff they've ever put in the game because it's not even consistent other than as a follow spell to make other spells work - except that there's nothing really immediate to notice that it's even doing that.

On the whole, I don't think there's a really anything in there to stop it feeling very, very repetitive - which is the antithesis of the previous resource and proc model. Even with every active talent picked.

It feels like Rogue, and I hate Rogue.

I have to agree so strongly. As a maintenance buff DE is a joke. In live currently T18 demo its a buff caused and maintained via Soul Fire. Makes it somewhat sensical. This DE however... Is far too integral to the spec.. In my opinion at least, having it linked to the mastery is a weird move. Flat mastery would make the ramp up time smaller for one. DE could easily be redesigned to say be a passive on our filler or some such...? Maybe make the mastery effect demons + players spells a bit. DE becomes a small boost to demons via shard gen...

This way the player would actually feel like they are having some input into their damage? Doom increase, HoG, DB/SB and the like? Not like "Your damage is increased by 50%" but maybe have as a % of the increase to demons damage.

[Kithelle]

I would guess to boost the imp's firebolts?

But there is already a trait that buff the Imp's damage...this buff is personal damage...so I don't understand why it exists.

[garonne]

But there is already a trait that buff the Imp's damage...this buff is personal damage...so I don't understand why it exists.

thats a really good question, but the reason is probably flavor at this point i'd assume.

[demonicpanda]

But there is already a trait that buff the Imp's damage...this buff is personal damage...so I don't understand why it exists.

buffs hand of gul'dan iirc. shadowflame gets both bonuses to fire and shadow damages.

[rhorle]

I keep forgetting warlocks don't have glyph of falling meteor anymore. Its lead to a few deaths on beta lol. Wish we could have it back.

[ryudaraku]

But there is already a trait that buff the Imp's damage...this buff is personal damage...so I don't understand why it exists.

Breath of Thal'kiel is to increase all spell damage you deal

Infernal Furnace is to increase just your Imp's firebolts

The reason behind the Breath thing being Fire and Shadow is because the imps likely deal only fire damage and if it did not boost up both it wouldn't affect them.

[Kithelle]

buffs hand of gul'dan iirc. shadowflame gets both bonuses to fire and shadow damages.

Perhaps...I just noticed it's shadowflame damage...I swore it used to just do shadow damage...maybe I just misread or they changed it and I didn't notice the change.

[wholol]

Does Thalkiel's consumption count as warlock ( caster ) damage or does thalkiel count as a separate entity ?

What I'm trying to figure out from this is whether caster power ups such a synergy /soul harvest affect the damage increase of T's consumption.

[garonne]

thal'kiel's is caster damage, although its a special damage so im not sure if its affected by synergy/soul harvest.

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so, did some testing (without full artifacts) and I think darkglare may be worth it on 2 targets but definitely on 3 targets. anyone else seeing these findings as well?

im asking as this may be something in the positive column for target switching.

edit:
so what im seeing is darkglare doing about half the damage (average) of demonbolt with 9 pets. so lets say its 100 damage. darkglare is doing around 50 damage. so two targets end up evening it out, however, you still get base shadowbolt which is like 1/3 the damage (33 in this case) that pulls it ahead.

you'd doom a second target regardless so you don't lose the gcd for applying the second doom, plus the second doom gives you an extra shard every 20 sec which is the cost of the darkglare. so overall the negative of the darkglare is that 1 gcd.

sound correct to yall? or is there something im missing?

[wholol]

thal'kiel's is caster damage, although its a special damage so im not sure if its affected by synergy/soul harvest.

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so, did some testing (without full artifacts) and I think darkglare may be worth it on 2 targets but definitely on 3 targets. anyone else seeing these findings as well?

im asking as this may be something in the positive column for target switching.

edit:
so what im seeing is darkglare doing about half the damage (average) of demonbolt with 9 pets. so lets say its 100 damage. darkglare is doing around 50 damage. so two targets end up evening it out, however, you still get base shadowbolt which is like 1/3 the damage (33 in this case) that pulls it ahead.

you'd doom a second target regardless so you don't lose the gcd for applying the second doom, plus the second doom gives you an extra shard every 20 sec which is the cost of the darkglare. so overall the negative of the darkglare is that 1 gcd.

sound correct to yall? or is there something im missing?

The problem I have with pets that cost shards to summon for a duration right now is that demo is so shard demanding I wonder why they are placing shard requirements on even talents that summon pets ( same goes for the pvp talent tree ).

[DesireKT]

Anyone leveling a character or just overall notice that Imps weren't spawning from HoG? I haven't swapped talents or gear around to try and find out what is causing it yet, but at some point yesterday I noticed Imps stopped spawning and my DPS took a severe hit. Changing specs/logging our and removing artifact weapon did not fix it.

I know there were spawning when I was 100 and had on our class trinket and full HFC Mythic gear. I took that off at some point and destroyed it in favor of the BoA trinket so I can't check if that's the cause without leveling another character.

I'm only 108 right now, but noticed it as early as 105 iirc. I didn't notice it Saturday, tho it's possible to have happened then.

[SxLongshadow]

The problem I have with pets that cost shards to summon for a duration right now is that demo is so shard demanding I wonder why they are placing shard requirements on even talents that summon pets ( same goes for the pvp talent tree ).

Because without the shard costs we'd play a lot smoother now, but we'd be incredibly 'cheesy' later on with more haste. When we can achieve 35% haste pre-raid, its frankly a drop in the bucket when you think about what it'll be like in raid gear. If they didn't cost a shard now they would cost one later, I for one am glad its now as well as then instead of having to relearn everything. It definitely makes you avoid playing with the extra shard cost talents (except GrimServ b/c lel the other 2) but I think for most fights we'll see DB > Darkglare or even SC > Darkglare.

[garonne]

Because without the shard costs we'd play a lot smoother now, but we'd be incredibly 'cheesy' later on with more haste. When we can achieve 35% haste pre-raid, its frankly a drop in the bucket when you think about what it'll be like in raid gear. If they didn't cost a shard now they would cost one later, I for one am glad its now as well as then instead of having to relearn everything. It definitely makes you avoid playing with the extra shard cost talents (except GrimServ b/c lel the other 2) but I think for most fights we'll see DB > Darkglare or even SC > Darkglare.

as i said above, the extra shard cost for darkglare is taken care of through doom. also, most fights aren't single target so depending on if its better at two targets, you may actually see darkglare>DB=SC, or Darkglare > db > sc depending on the situation.