[LEGION] Brewmaster Discussion

[redfella]

I'm seeing purifying playing a much smaller role (20%ish) in overall mitigation which I find unfortunate.

This, 1000 times this. I really like Stagger as a mechanic, and they could have built more of our kit around it instead of GotO.

[Valkaneer]

This, 1000 times this. I really like Stagger as a mechanic, and they could have built more of our kit around it instead of GotO.

20% on what though? If your floating between 35 and 70% I would think on boss fights your going to be using ISB and Purifying brew constantly.

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Will also be a lot higher if your using Light Brewing.

[Leblue]

Light Brewing and Black Ox Brew certainly shift a lot of the emphasis to brews vs orbs. I'm just surprised no sort of cooldown has been added to obsintinate determination. That said, may not matter very much as time goes on since the heal relative to your health pool shrinks as you gear up.

[Xiaojin]

I don't know about other BrMs, but I really don't look forwards to our tanking revolving around being tankier the less we have HP. I'm not that annoyed by most of the changes, but this is the one point that I really hate.

AFAIK there are only two things that make you "tankier" at low HP by increasing the healing from your Gift of the Ox (both provide more orbs):
1) Obstinate Determination (artifact trait)
2) Gift of the Mists (talent)

So, unless you try to game OD (which I think is not Blizzard's intent) you are equally tanky at all HP levels if you spec into Light Brewing or Black Ox Brew. My guess is that as long as you don't mind Gift of the Ox itself (which I do; re-rolling to DK in Legion) and talents are reasonably balanced (tuning is still on-going), you should be fine as a Brm in Legion. And you don't need to hang around low HP levels to get the most out of your monk. The only thing you may want to try to avoid is overheal from your orbs. But that doesn't require you to intentionally drop low. But from what I hear tanks take enough damage in Legion anyway.

[keqe]

I just sort of hope they truly enforce their new philosophy on talents. Active buttons being more powerful by nature. Thus RJW should be the most optimal talent choice from the row as using it takes the most "effort". Thus we can enjoy playing 95%+ GCD locked while also playing with optimal build.

Though we can expect on bosses with serious burn phases requiring Niuzao.

[Deleted]

I'm surprised that people are still saying you need to 'use your health as resource' and 'dance around low health', when that is only true when you're playing gift of the mists, (or gaming OD). As far as I've understood we will probably talent into either of the brew talents for raiding, and gaming OD in raids seems very, very unwise to do, meaning that it doesn't matter at all at what health percentage we will be in content that actually matters.

For leveling yes, gift of the mists and OD are probably best and I guess we will be dancing around low health then, but for any situation where you actually take a lot of damage and are not solely relying on self-heals (like soloing stuff), I really really doubt the healthpool as resource thing still counts.

[Valkaneer]

I'm surprised that people are still saying you need to 'use your health as resource' and 'dance around low health', when that is only true when you're playing gift of the mists, (or gaming OD). As far as I've understood we will probably talent into either of the brew talents for raiding, and gaming OD in raids seems very, very unwise to do, meaning that it doesn't matter at all at what health percentage we will be in content that actually matters.

For leveling yes, gift of the mists and OD are probably best and I guess we will be dancing around low health then, but for any situation where you actually take a lot of damage and are not solely relying on self-heals (like soloing stuff), I really really doubt the healthpool as resource thing still counts.

Because the lower heath you are the more chance you have to spawn an orb.

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So if you can float around at lower health you will spawn more orbs and have more survivability. Meaning you can take more damage cuz your spawning orbs faster than you could generate life.. At least that is how it's suppose to work.

[Ampere]

I'm surprised that people are still saying you need to 'use your health as resource' and 'dance around low health', when that is only true when you're playing gift of the mists, (or gaming OD). As far as I've understood we will probably talent into either of the brew talents for raiding, and gaming OD in raids seems very, very unwise to do, meaning that it doesn't matter at all at what health percentage we will be in content that actually matters.

Celestalon joined the Brewmaster feedback thread and told everyone "how you are supposed to play", and then even though they made formula changes later that was probably the most read post in the thread. Naturally it's all a lot of people remember and not the follow up details. That's probably where people are drawing from.

It's hard to tell what Brewmasters will do in raiding since I have seen very little raid testing done with Brewmasters. It'd help if we had a natural "Will of Necropolis" at low health like Death Knights and Paladins have.

Because the lower heath you are the more chance you have to spawn an orb.

So if you can float around at lower health you will spawn more orbs and have more survivability. Meaning you can take more damage cuz your spawning orbs faster than you could generate life.. At least that is how it's suppose to work.

Only when you take the Gift of the Mists talent, or fall below 35% health and have the Obstinate Determination trait. Otherwise the chance is normalized and takes 100% of your HP before absorbs to spawn an orb.

[Valkaneer]

Only when you take the Gift of the Mists talent, or fall below 35% health and have the Obstinate Determination trait. Otherwise the chance is normalized and takes 100% of your HP before absorbs to spawn an orb.

You mean for every full bar of heath it spawns an orb?

[Ampere]

You mean for every full bar of heath it spawns an orb?

Yes, unless you have Gift of the Mists talented, then you get a bonus towards that health bar meter as your health gets lower. They changed it from a chance on hit to a counter that increments then resets to 0 on orb spawns (not including Obstinate Determination orbs).

[Deleted]

That is actually interesting... Did anyone test if OD orbs reset GotOx orb counter, or if they are fully independent?

Also @Valkaneer you were indeed one of the people that kept talking about the old situation that Celestalon talked about, before stuff got changed (and Celestalons explanation now is only valid when you take Gift of the Mists talent)

[redfella]

Because the lower heath you are the more chance you have to spawn an orb.

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So if you can float around at lower health you will spawn more orbs and have more survivability. Meaning you can take more damage cuz your spawning orbs faster than you could generate life.. At least that is how it's suppose to work.

GotO gaming is exactly what I meant.

Actually, fuck GotO in any scenario. I'm also leaning towards DK even when it looks to be quite boring in its current state.

[Leblue]

You mean for every full bar of heath it spawns an orb?

Yeah its only Gift of the Mist that allows you to play like was originally intended with Brewmaster when they first put it out there (minus the fact its a chance).

Easiest way to think about it is that your health is filling another invisible bar that will spawn an orb when it fills and then starts over again. Gift of the Mist increases that by up to 60% based on where your health would be after Damage Reductions but before Stagger (keeping in mind that ticking stagger damage doesn't count towards orb spawning because its been counted already). So if you had 100 health and took a 100 health hit you'd spawn an orb. If you have Gift of the Mist and took a 100 health hit, you'd spawn an orb and be 60% of the way to spawning yet another orb (thus speeding it up). If you're at 100 health and take a hit for 50 then you fill that bar by 65.

The change was made so that our healing was more consistent so we didn't run into the freak situations where you simply would go too long without any sort of self healing in a difficult situation (which is a similar sort of problem currently with monks vs glaive combo and Elusive Brew RNG). I apologize if its restating something you knew, but I wanted to clarify for anyone who might.

[Blur4stuff]

Even with recent adjustments, BrM still feels the worst out of all tanks. It can tank content, but the design is clearly a tier down from everyone else. I can hardly express how disappointed I still am with release closing in. I never expected to shelve my monk for an entire expansion.

[Valkaneer]

That is actually interesting... Did anyone test if OD orbs reset GotOx orb counter, or if they are fully independent?

Also @Valkaneer you were indeed one of the people that kept talking about the old situation that Celestalon talked about, before stuff got changed (and Celestalons explanation now is only valid when you take Gift of the Mists talent)

Now I think I only mentioned it twice, and in truth I did not get that idea from teh Celestalon post, I got it from reading else where, It might have been mentioned in his post but what I got my information from was much more recent like one month ago information. I guess it's possible I misunderstood what he was saying but I thought it was the lower your heal the more chance you had to spawn.

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I mean GotO does say "The lower your current heath, the greater your chance to spawn a healing sphere". That would lead me to believe that the lower your health % that you do indeed have a chance to summon a sphere. I mean why would they word it that way if it does not?

[Leblue]

I mean GotO does say "The lower your current heath, the greater your chance to spawn a healing sphere". That would lead me to believe that the lower your health % that you do indeed have a chance to summon a sphere. I mean why would they word it that way if it does not?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...21?page=11#218

It says that, but he explains the under the hood info. To most people it doesn't matter at all. Its more of a min/max nice to know thing and keeps in line with how bad blizzard can be with tooltips. Obviously later Gift of the Mist was nerfed from 100% to 60%. Most players won't track Gift of the Ox and it won't even actually matter if you do or don't (especially if you game OD since that's a lot of Orbs being generated). To people who aren't invested in it it may very well look random, but anyone who does a bit of reading or even really pays attention to their generation will notice there's a pattern.

[Valkaneer]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...21?page=11#218

It says that, but he explains the under the hood info. To most people it doesn't matter at all. Its more of a min/max nice to know thing and keeps in line with how bad blizzard can be with tooltips. Obviously later Gift of the Mist was nerfed from 100% to 60%. Most players won't track Gift of the Ox and it won't even actually matter if you do or don't (especially if you game OD since that's a lot of Orbs being generated). To people who aren't invested in it it may very well look random, but anyone who does a bit of reading or even really pays attention to their generation will notice there's a pattern.

Gah that is absolutely terrible wording then for the tool tip, and this " The tooltip still says ‘chance’, to keep it understandable." WTF is that? How can he call it a chance when it in fact is not? That does not "keep it understandable" that is out right, purposeful, misleading.

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I wonder if there is a way to track GotO then with a weak aura or something.

[keqe]

I wonder if there is a way to track GotO then with a weak aura or something.

I think someone tried to do a WA. Especially without GotM it should be very easy to track as long as it can be synced properly. It was very "heavy" for an aura and caused issues.

But possibly with clever aura or standalone addon non-GotM version should be very much possible and GotM one possibly even.

Gah that is absolutely terrible wording then for the tool tip, and this " The tooltip still says ‘chance’, to keep it understandable." WTF is that? How can he call it a chance when it in fact is not? That does not "keep it understandable" that is out right, purposeful, misleading.

That is the new philosophy on blizzard. Hide everything so everyone is confused why things work like they do. Their answer: "Get addons if you want to see all options lol".

[Leblue]

Yeah, not a big fan on their reasoning behind tooltips and makes me wonder why they can't just expand tooltips further for those who're interested. That said, this is less of a clarity issue and more the ability working entirely different from what the tool tip actually says so its kind of borked. A better way to word it would be "You create a Gift of the Ox orb whenever you take (Your Health Bar) in damage before stagger" and that would more accurately describe how it works. I'm taking a jab in the dark and saying that the reason it doesn't is because it would probably look pretty off putting to a player who sees that they literally have to take their entire health in damage to get what's meant to be their self healing. Obviously makes more sense in group content, but could be a point of contention for those who primarily do world content.

[arcuro]

wait i am confused now.
did i read correctly that playing the orb game to be around 30-70% health isnt correct anymore?
how are we supposed to use ISB and PB now?
or did i read something wrong?
Do i now use Gift of the Mist or light brewing? (dont like Black Ox Brew)

considering both for WoD (meaning without OD because well, no artifact ) and later in legion

i dont know how to tank anymore ): its so sad... dont want to reroll protadin just to have a clear way to tank (hitting SotR when big hit will come.. easy as that)