How are DH's doing in Raids?

[Delimit]

Why is that locks damage so high? Gear? Or is there a fight mechanic that tuned his damage up extremely high?

Artifact is bugged.

[Tato23]

Ahhh okay, god haha that is incredibly bugged haha. Looks like besides that artifact you would have stomped.

Is there any single target fights longer than 2-3 minutes in a raid that is being tested right now?

[Infective]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1854&wipes=1

Here is some logs from dragons of nightmare testing while i was playing dh. As you can see they are still strong performers even on a fight that is considered bad for melee. The first few pulls i was going into portals the last 12 pulls i was outside.

We arent by any means weak after the chaos strike nerf ad it only hit us on ST during cleave Chaos strike still refunds 40 fury.

What spec were u using there?

[Deleted]

How!? how do they screw up something that easy? I feel like it is a really simple class to play, which is fine, and as long as you fire your meta at the right time during a burn phase, or right at the start of a fight to get it back up at the end...you will be in really good shape.

Maybe there is more to the class than that haha.

Its because people aer playing the momentum build.

Its actually one of the more micro management oriented builds in Legion.

Not the hardest by a large margin, but if you play it wrong you loose much dps

[Tato23]

Its because people aer playing the momentum build.

Its actually one of the more micro management oriented builds in Legion.

Not the hardest by a large margin, but if you play it wrong you loose much dps

How much control
Do you have over meters? Like how much burst can you have with momentum? How easy of a spec is it for an experienced player ?

[Deleted]

How much control
Do you have over meters? Like how much burst can you have with momentum? How easy of a spec is it for an experienced player ?

ok so. You have a lot of control over when and how to burst which is always nice. Its relatively easy for an experienced player. It basicly revolves around:

Pooling, buffing, bursting.

The buff lasts 4 seconds so its short burst windows but you can pretty much do them all the time.

Downside, at least for me, is that its shit annoying to play. I know there are many on this forum that likes it a lot however.
The buff comes from you using one of two abilities. One of them makes you leap backwards away from the things you are trying to kill(which atm can be gaimed to not leap backwards. This may or may not be intentional). The oither abilities is a straight up dash.

Both of them making you move(unless gaimed) which i dont much like.

That being said the original rotation of the DH is mind numbingly boring. So i can definately see why blizzard decided to stick with this spec as the highest dps spec for dh's.(Basicly making a lot of talents never use talents)

[Tato23]

That is awesome, i like the on demand burst. Is it a ton of burst? Or because it is such a short time i just keeps you on the board? How much pooling do you need? I have played rogue a lot so i am used to pooling energy, but i felt it didnt slow the gameplay down much, does it with DH?

[Deleted]

That is awesome, i like the on demand burst. Is it a ton of burst? Or because it is such a short time i just keeps you on the board? How much pooling do you need? I have played rogue a lot so i am used to pooling energy, but i felt it didnt slow the gameplay down much, does it with DH?

Its a little different from rogue as the pooling is active and not passive(you get resource by spamming an attack).

Its enough to keep you on the meters. When you are inside demonform(be it from the long cd, or from eye beam) is where you really do a lot of damage.

The pooling in itself takes very little time and so does the setup for the burst phase.

It kinda feels like a part of the rotation instead of actual pooling.

You have to try out the spec for yourself to see if you like it. Bear in mind though that unless they really change the way the talents are made you wont be able to fully play a Havoc DH pre lvl 110. At lvl 100 you only have your first tier talents and momentum needs certain talents.

[Tato23]

Ok so tell me this, you say it is enough to keep you on the meters. What does it look like usually? Are you top all the time and the burst just keeps you further ahead at number 1? Or do you fall down to 3-5 and then the burst makes you jump back each time at the top. Meaning it will really take coordination with timings to finish top? Just trying to get a feel for the dps i can visualize it pretty well.

[Deleted]

Ok so tell me this, you say it is enough to keep you on the meters. What does it look like usually? Are you top all the time and the burst just keeps you further ahead at number 1? Or do you fall down to 3-5 and then the burst makes you jump back each time at the top. Meaning it will really take coordination with timings to finish top? Just trying to get a feel for the dps i can visualize it pretty well.

You are basicly in the burst window 90%+ of the time. So you cant really say it like that.

That being said its been a while since i've played DH since i decided for a different main. I know there have been some nerfs since i played so i dont know how they are doing now.

But yeah calling it a burst phase might be a little wrong since you are in it most of the time. The actual burst phase happens during the Meta cd or the Eye beam meta.

It does feel satisfying seeing your dps increase by a huge amount in meta though.

[Tato23]

I thought meta and eye beam had pretty long cooldowns? And for some reason i thought meta eye beam was not part of momentum, man i got lots of learning to do.

[Deleted]

I thought meta and eye beam had pretty long cooldowns? And for some reason i thought meta eye beam was not part of momentum, man i got lots of learning to do.

Meta is the dps cd of the havoc spec. It basicly enhanced your main dps ability IE the one you spam during burst phases(that uses your pooled resources).

During meta its basicly the same rotation: Pool, Buff, burst. The burst is just much higher.

Meta has a long cd, eye beam slightly shorter. Eye beam gives you a short time in meta aswell so its an important part of your burst.

[Tato23]

Ok that is what i figured, i thought meta was like 4 minutes, and eye beam is like 1 min, and only puts you in meta form for about 5 seconds. So most of the time you are out of meta; but maybe that is more recent changes, or i am just dumb

[Deleted]

Ok that is what i figured, i thought meta was like 4 minutes, and eye beam is like 1 min, and only puts you in meta form for about 5 seconds. So most of the time you are out of meta; but maybe that is more recent changes, or i am just dumb

Its been a while but yoy are mostly right. Though as far as i remember you can get the cd of both eye beam and meta significantly lowered by the artifact tree

[Jhiz]

Momentum/Demonic builds are dead, they just do not compare to the power of Nemesis/Demon Reborn/Chaos Blades builds, the exception to this would be a fight with a constant supply of stunnable adds with low hp to give you as many orbs as possible during a fight to reduce Nova/Eyebeam cooldown but this will be largely dependant on RNG (chaos nova stun proc orbs) and getting killing blows for additional Orbs each which reduce EB cd by 5s giving alot more power to demonic.

During the logged Dragons of Nightmare linked earlier i was running Chaos Cleave/Demon Blades/Felblade/Soul Rending/Nemesis/Demon Reborn/Chaos Blades.

While the momentum build was strong a while ago, after prepared and demonic were nerfed into the ground i just find them lacking, 2 gcds from meta after eyebeam just doesnt compare to 24s of chaos blades during meta. Nemesis is also an amazing talent as many people are looking passed its potential to increase your dmg by 30% for 1 min or 15% for 2mins, the buff on yourself and the debuff on target are not unique and with cd resets from Reborn you can do some crazy shit.

Demon blades is super powererful and its not just a pick and forget talents, it actually takes more effort and skill to use then demon bite, after the last changes it has a 50% chance to proc, but cannot proc while on gcd, it can bank 2 procs which will both be consumed on the next non gcd auto attack. When engaging with demon blades you always want to land a white hit before using Felblade so you can cap fury almost instantly.

[Deleted]

Momentum/Demonic builds are dead, they just do not compare to the power of Nemesis/Demon Reborn/Chaos Blades builds, the exception to this would be a fight with a constant supply of stunnable adds with low hp to give you as many orbs as possible during a fight to reduce Nova/Eyebeam cooldown but this will be largely dependant on RNG (chaos nova stun proc orbs) and getting killing blows for additional Orbs each which reduce EB cd by 5s giving alot more power to demonic.

During the logged Dragons of Nightmare linked earlier i was running Chaos Cleave/Demon Blades/Felblade/Soul Rending/Nemesis/Demon Reborn/Chaos Blades.

While the momentum build was strong a while ago, after prepared and demonic were nerfed into the ground i just find them lacking, 2 gcds from meta after eyebeam just doesnt compare to 24s of chaos blades during meta. Nemesis is also an amazing talent as many people are looking passed its potential to increase your dmg by 30% for 1 min or 15% for 2mins, the buff on yourself and the debuff on target are not unique and with cd resets from Reborn you can do some crazy shit.

Demon blades is super powererful and its not just a pick and forget talents, it actually takes more effort and skill to use then demon bite, after the last changes it has a 50% chance to proc, but cannot proc while on gcd, it can bank 2 procs which will both be consumed on the next non gcd auto attack. When engaging with demon blades you always want to land a white hit before using Felblade so you can cap fury almost instantly.

Sounds like things changed then.

I always advocated that the Momentum build should be for aoe burst and somethign else should replace single target as it was fucking annoying to play vs medium on low hitbox sized bossed. Good on you Blizzard!

[Dimzum]

Momentum/Demonic builds are dead, they just do not compare to the power of Nemesis/Demon Reborn/Chaos Blades builds, the exception to this would be a fight with a constant supply of stunnable adds with low hp to give you as many orbs as possible during a fight to reduce Nova/Eyebeam cooldown but this will be largely dependant on RNG (chaos nova stun proc orbs) and getting killing blows for additional Orbs each which reduce EB cd by 5s giving alot more power to demonic.

During the logged Dragons of Nightmare linked earlier i was running Chaos Cleave/Demon Blades/Felblade/Soul Rending/Nemesis/Demon Reborn/Chaos Blades.

While the momentum build was strong a while ago, after prepared and demonic were nerfed into the ground i just find them lacking, 2 gcds from meta after eyebeam just doesnt compare to 24s of chaos blades during meta. Nemesis is also an amazing talent as many people are looking passed its potential to increase your dmg by 30% for 1 min or 15% for 2mins, the buff on yourself and the debuff on target are not unique and with cd resets from Reborn you can do some crazy shit.

Demon blades is super powererful and its not just a pick and forget talents, it actually takes more effort and skill to use then demon bite, after the last changes it has a 50% chance to proc, but cannot proc while on gcd, it can bank 2 procs which will both be consumed on the next non gcd auto attack. When engaging with demon blades you always want to land a white hit before using Felblade so you can cap fury almost instantly.

Vanyali seems to be doing damn well with it.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...mmary&fight=22

They are still in numbers tuning. Might be a bit premature to say "Momentum/Prepared/Demonic is dead"

[Deleted]

I don't get it. Metamorphosis is such a big cooldown, yet you guys tell us that DHs are "doing fine" - On a 1min20sec fight where >50% of the time the player was in meta heavily increasing DPS. We can say something like "DHs are doing fine" when we're in the middle after 4 minutes but I wouldn't conclude anything from a 1min20sec attempt.

[Dimzum]

I don't get it. Metamorphosis is such a big cooldown, yet you guys tell us that DHs are "doing fine" - On a 1min20sec fight where >50% of the time the player was in meta heavily increasing DPS. We can say something like "DHs are doing fine" when we're in the middle after 4 minutes but I wouldn't conclude anything from a 1min20sec attempt.

I completely agree with saying 1 min 20 secs shouldn't be something to base our dps or compare specs. Part of why I said saying any build is better than the other, or a build is dead is premature.

The guys over on the Havoc thread have been going over this a bit more in depth.

[Tato23]

Jhiz, saying the momentum build is dead is wrong lol. Tons of people on this forum are using it to very great success.