Queue: "If I can't click 1 button, I won't participate"

[Deleted]

Its the same with the pro-flight mentality. "If I cant fly, thus trivializing many aspects the game, I won't participate," when in reality flight is just a means of getting from point A to point B. The content is whats in between point A and B.

I just don't understand how one could have a mentality of non-participation just because of things that make the game more "convenient" are not available. Its a game. Just play the game.

Its simple. They do not want to play MMORPG. They want single player game. They don't want engaging world, they want rewards. For them fun in game is getting rewards, not playing game.

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Durumu wipefests didn't teach people how to get better, neither did abilities that gently tickle.

To be fair, Durumu wipefests weren't caused by incompetence, but by bad encounter design. Many play on low end computers. That stuff on floor was extremely hard to see on low settings. I had to change video settings before doing that encounter to see that stuff. Players died because they didn't see safe zones on floor.

[Foj]

You just wrote that the curve needs to start higher and be steeper, not more gentle. Do you think we're idiots?

No, he doesn't understand his own words and/or their implications.

[Deadite]

By degrees my good man by degrees. Have heroics that can kill groups often not some of the times if abilities from bosses are completely ignored. Bring in adds where if they are not killed in a timely matter greatly increase the difficulty of the fight or kill the group.

I would see heroic dungeons as a place to teach rather then something you just queue into and faceroll completely.

People that what to do that sort of thing are doing it already. Most folk that play this game don't want to do orginized raiding. They never have. They play the game the way they want to play it and not the way you want them to play it. Just accept it and move on. Play with like minded people and worry about your own enjoyment.

Blizzard knows what up. Most people just like to potter about doing what ever in game. Jump into a BG here and a Wing of LFR there. It is fine that some people want more from the game. Fill your boots! Most people just don't want that.

[kary]

Its simple. They do not want to play MMORPG. They want single player game. They don't want engaging world, they want rewards. For them fun in game is getting rewards, not playing game.

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To be fair, Durumu wipefests weren't caused by incompetence, but by bad encounter design. Many play on low end computers. That stuff on floor was extremely hard to see on low settings. I had to change video settings before doing that encounter to see that stuff. Players died because they didn't see safe zones on floor.

People got 10stack on lei shen and nazgrim too. What was the problem on those encounters?

[HuxNeva]

To be fair, Durumu wipefests weren't caused by incompetence, but by bad encounter design. Many play on low end computers. That stuff on floor was extremely hard to see on low settings. I had to change video settings before doing that encounter to see that stuff. Players died because they didn't see safe zones on floor.

That was certainly an issue. Safe zones weren't visible on my computer. I had a similar problem with Twins in Highmaul. My videocard does not render the telegaph for the second stage of pulverize, so I had to have friendly helpfull guildies calling out when i was in one. Yes, my computer is old and my video card is not on the supported list for the game, so my fault entirely, but there a re many like me. I'm looking to upgrade before the Legion launch.

[Marrilaife]

No, he doesn't understand his own words and/or their implications.

If you start off higher the curve indeed will be less steep but at a price of putting the wall before the entry rather than in the middle of the process. Not sure if that's a good tradeoff, but that's what it suggests.

But generally raiding doesn't translate well into group of strangers. Raiding works best when you steadily progress with a group of the same people and you can see both personal progress and progress as a group as days, weeks and months pass. In a group where you won't see those people again any "progress" made overnight is immediately wasted next time you enter and see different people starting again from square 1.

A guild might have an interest in picking a "green" player and teaching him the ropes in exchange for gaining a loyal, long standing member. Doesn't always happen but that's the ideal scenario. A group of strangers has little incentive to spend extra time trying to "teach" someone, because they will never see him again, and that's also made worse by the fact most people react bad to advice as said before, so if you actually want to go out of your comfort zone and "help newbies" you get 90% flame / ignorance and only 10% satisfaction someone improved thanks to your advice.

Yep like this:

Often people say Thanks and try to improve. most people however say "lol doesn't matter it's a stupid dungeon" or when i ask to not stand in fire the reply is "lol im giving the healer something to do" or "doesn't matter at this level"

it's not about being helpful it about when you do try to be helpful 90% of the time it is wasted effort

I once told a guy back in wotlk that he has 3 unspent talent points (I thought maybe he levelled up fast and forgot), and he flamed me back to oblivion. So no, don't tell me "community used to be better back in the days", it wasn't.

[Nakotsu]

1) Yes I did play vanilla and TBC, they were the best times in the game ever.

2) See below.

This is a moot point now that there is a tool specifically designed to put groups together CROSS REALM. It has never been easier to form groups than right now. There is no "literally 2 hours in trade chat to look for people" (and by the way, that is a highly over exaggerated line of bullshit that the LFR crowd loves to throw around, as if it really took people 2 hours to find a group.. yeah, i was on a medium pop realm in TBC and it never took me 2 hours, 15 mins? yeah for sure, but not 2 hours as there were plenty of other people wanting to run dungeons back then).

your a liar. you never played vanilla. First you state you did then you state you were on a medium pop realm in TBC, TBC IS NOT VANILLA hate to tell you this so just stop lying and accept it. It did take 2 hours for a group to form and it did take hours later on if your group fell apart. I have always been on the first PVE server that was available since the first day. And at that time servers would go down for days sometimes they'd be down for weeks so don't try and throw baloney out there when you did not even play the game at the time. As for attunements they were freaking hellish and as a bloody tank they drove you mad having to run people threw them over and over again just so that you could end up raiding as you needed to gear them up and attune them for certain things.
Being in a guild of over 500 it was a pain in the butt!
Attunements were removed for a reason and that was people wanted to see content not be gated and annoyed to death.

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I was around. And I preferred that system over queue button. It was slow, and frustrating. But when you found a group of people you added them to friends. You ran more dungeons with them. You bonded with them. You formed guilds and stuck together. The new system does not organically create large groups of players. And that is very unhealthy for an mmo. Blizzard recognizes this.

I very much liked Asmongold's video on the subject. He sums up pretty much everything.

Asmongold Excuse me but you realize that was s a website that sold gold to people right not a actual player that was there account and website name.

Blizzard recognized one thing attunements were not user friendly nor did we like them.

[Jaylock]

your a liar. you never played vanilla. First you state you did then you state you were on a medium pop realm in TBC, TBC IS NOT VANILLA hate to tell you this so just stop lying and accept it. It did take 2 hours for a group to form and it did take hours later on if your group fell apart. I have always been on the first PVE server that was available since the first day. And at that time servers would go down for days sometimes they'd be down for weeks so don't try and throw baloney out there when you did not even play the game at the time. As for attunements they were freaking hellish and as a bloody tank they drove you mad having to run people threw them over and over again just so that you could end up raiding as you needed to gear them up and attune them for certain things.
Being in a guild of over 500 it was a pain in the butt!
Attunements were removed for a reason and that was people wanted to see content not be gated and annoyed to death.

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Asmongold Excuse me but you realize that was s a website that sold gold to people right not a actual player that was there account and website name.

Blizzard recognized one thing attunements were not user friendly nor did we like them.

lol, ok since you personally know me and know my entire WoW playing history.... Wrong again kid. I played during Vanilla, and it didn't take 2 hours to find a group. How ignorant can you be? If you were taking 2 hours to find a group to do one dungeon, then you were doing it wrong. I mentioned TBC because that was the first EXPANSION, and that EXPANSION was the best expansion created so far, kid.

[Nakotsu]

lol, ok since you personally know me and know my entire WoW playing history.... Wrong again kid. I played during Vanilla, and it didn't take 2 hours to find a group. How ignorant can you be? If you were taking 2 hours to find a group to do one dungeon, then you were doing it wrong. I mentioned TBC because that was the first EXPANSION, and that EXPANSION was the best expansion created so far, kid.

Enough lies guy. You lost all your credibility already. Your nothing but a liar and you can't back pedal.

[primalmatter]

Enough lies guy. You lost all your credibility already. Your nothing but a liar and you can't back pedal.

What is he back pedaling on exactly?

[Mesoforte]

If you don't talk to people in your groups in LFD it's because you're just as much of an anti-social ass as you think everyone else.

I will say, from doing content TBC to now, earlier on I was doing less, so I had time to write in chat. Nowadays, unless you want to take a break between pulls, talking in party chat requires me to wait for when people aren't trying to die.

I wonder if there's a correlation between talking and chat and the amount of buttons you need to hit to maintain what you need to do.

[Jtbrig7390]

This thread is miss leading.

You don't click one button you click 3-7+ buttons depending.

For LFR.
1) Click LFG button
2) Click the role u want to be
3) Click LFR tab
4) Click LFR wings you want to do "This can lead to alot of buttons being pushed"
5) Click Join Que.
6) Click Accept Que when it pops.
Bonus 7) Click Accept Que again when someone decides to drop and it doesn't que you in.

Edit: Forgot a click had to add it

[Foj]

I once told a guy back in wotlk that he has 3 unspent talent points (I thought maybe he levelled up fast and forgot), and he flamed me back to oblivion. So no, don't tell me "community used to be better back in the days", it wasn't.

Going around inspecting people is one thing; offering unsolicited "advice" to strangers based on that is just plain rude.

You might think everyone wants your "helpful" un-asked for advice but in reality pretty much no one does. No matter who you are and what your advice is.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

It's about the journey. One does not simply queue into Mordor.

Nice.

/10

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I don’t mind reaching out socially to form a group among my friends and guildies. I don’t mind reaching out to strangers if I’m well-rested and focused and ready to embrace a challenge – that challenge being the reason I’m reluctant to do so when I’m feeling lazy: drama. When you reach out to strangers you never know what you will get, new best friends or new additions to your ignore list. Sometimes I’m up for playing morale officer and cheer leader and peace keeper; sometimes it’s late and I’m just not up for all that.

Sure, you can get the same problems in queued content, but there you’re more likely to outgear the content so thoroughly that there’s nothing to fuss over.
So it all comes down to whether I’m feeling more adventurous and effervescent, or lazy and reclusive.

[Gilgameshh]

I will say, from doing content TBC to now, earlier on I was doing less, so I had time to write in chat. Nowadays, unless you want to take a break between pulls, talking in party chat requires me to wait for when people aren't trying to die.

I wonder if there's a correlation between talking and chat and the amount of buttons you need to hit to maintain what you need to do.

Conversations were easily started because you had to actually speak to people (gasp) to form/join groups. I think the biggest thing that allowed conversation was the time it took to set up between pulls. It's not like dungeons were faceroll as fuck back in TBC when the trash was harder than the bosses we have in dungeons today. There was time to talk in between pulls. The problem with that system? Not going to fly in cross realm LFD when people expect faceroll content without any organization whatsoever. I don't think most people who queue for LFD are looking for a conversation, either. That's just how the community has developed over the years because of things like LFD.

Anyone who argues that socializing is just as easy today as it was years ago is just plain ignorant or never played back then. The cross realm queue system has obliterated much of the social experience in WoW. Even Ion, in his latest interview, spoke about the added socialization that pristine servers would bring by getting rid of shit like LFD (wasn't what he said verbatim, but that's the obvious implication that we all speak about).

[kamuimac]

To be fair, Durumu wipefests weren't caused by incompetence, but by bad encounter design. Many play on low end computers. That stuff on floor was extremely hard to see on low settings. I had to change video settings before doing that encounter to see that stuff. Players died because they didn't see safe zones on floor.

the encouter was ok - what was not ok was puting 1 shot mechanic into lfr - that was exackly done by incompetence of devs and tuning team nothing else - people responsible for it should get fired for leting it go to live because they are clearly not fit to be in that position if they let shit like that make it to live

[Asotcha]

When the Userbase is spoiled you have to just rip the band-aid off and keep the ones you can. People don't really know what they want exactly, they talk about very minor specifics of certain features, but in actuality the feel of a game is not found in bullet-points on the box.

Well stated. If Warlords of Garrisons taught us anything, its that catering to that mentality in the extreme is deadly to the game. It will never get easier then it was during that time, and the proof is in the pudding of what it cost us. Maybe it was a wake-up call, albeit an expensive one for the whole community.

[Deianeira]

The vast majority of players prefer it. The real question is why don't you?

Yes and the bigger question why cant people be social regardless? When i queue i always talk with the people i play with, some are very talkative and some are not just like in real life..

[Jtbrig7390]

No one would quit if the queue mechanic was removed. It's just things that people with social anxiety lie about.

Ummm I would and as long as raiding is the Endgame (Where the story ends) there must be a queable raid or I won't play.

On top of that if the WOD state of LFR carried over into Legion I wasn't going to play anymore.

So its best for you to not speak on behalf of everyone. By ur logic no one has ever left WoW and those 5 million sub loss in WOD didn't happen.

[Chrno]

Nice.

/10

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I don’t mind reaching out socially to form a group among my friends and guildies. I don’t mind reaching out to strangers if I’m well-rested and focused and ready to embrace a challenge – that challenge being the reason I’m reluctant to do so when I’m feeling lazy: drama. When you reach out to strangers you never know what you will get, new best friends or new additions to your ignore list. Sometimes I’m up for playing morale officer and cheer leader and peace keeper; sometimes it’s late and I’m just not up for all that.

Sure, you can get the same problems in queued content, but there you’re more likely to outgear the content so thoroughly that there’s nothing to fuss over.
So it all comes down to whether I’m feeling more adventurous and effervescent, or lazy and reclusive.

This is true for most people i believe.
Difference being in Classic i simply didn't do dungeons if i was lazy and didn't feel like putting in effort and instead focus on different things the game had to offer. Now it's indeed different ... The problem now is that dungeons feel so boring and feel so anti-social that it actually kills my motivation to do them before i even start .....

I did 2 heroic dungeons this weekend simply because i felt like it and ended up doing both runs in 45min or so .... i would kill to get a real dungeon feeling again.

edit: The last time i had a real dungeon experience was during the launch of Cataclysm. Those heroics were great and forced group effort with strat's and sometimes the use of CC. BC heroics were pretty brutal and more difficult then karazhan was at the time. But still fun to do. WotLK, WoD and cata post-nerf have had the most boring dungeons in the game so far as no group effort is needed.