No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[8bithamster]

Post level cap content beyond instances is lack luster to say the least.

Having flight reduces the tedium and annoyance of those tasks.

It is pretty simple if the tedium and annoyance exceeds the fun or rewards to be had people won't do it.

In Legion what will happen is people will do what is needed, then plant themselves in the capital cities or their order halls. Once flight is enabled you will again see people out in the world doing things.

A month after WoD was released, the open world was dead. Now even w/significantly less subs more people are out in the world doing thing why is that? The content sure as hell isn't any better.

Flight reduced the tedium and annoyance, making those thing rewarding to do.

Please answer the question instead of this.. stuff

[Bun-Bun]

Again, no. Just implying that the main content Blizzard wants us to do FOR flight needs to be done.

Again, forcing us to do something we may not want to do. In BC I didn't do isle of quel'danas, Wrath I did everything, Cata I didn't do firelands, MoP I didn't do isle of thunder (only sort of did isle of timeless just for some quick gear upgrades).

Blizzards new model is I have to do all of that before I can fly. So to enjoy the game the way I want, I have to complete it first to have nothing left to do.

That is poor design. And is/will result in less people subbing.

[Eapoe]

No, that was 10 years ago. Today they design the game to cost as little as possible while making as much money as possible.



No, I won't be so ignorant to just quit a game I spent over 10 years in when I instead can stand up and try to prevent it from becoming a disaster. Not only for my sake but for blizzards and everyone else sake as well.

Yes, that's why graphics are being updated, things are always being tweaked and redesigned (mechanics/abilities), new xpacs are coming out...its a shame they spend all that money on man hours. That costs so little money that they must have nothing but profit.
As I said before in the Nost thread, keep pushing for it. Maybe one day you will get it; but, as I've also stated, if the game changes in such a way that you no longer have fun and it kills the game for you, then quit. Why play and support a game that is no longer fun for you? If it doesn't kill the game for you, by all means, keep trying to get what you want and giving feedback, but don't expect to always get it or come up with stupid reasons for it, or try and place your opinion as fact. I know I keep saying "you," but I'm not directly saying you.

- - - Updated - - -

Again, forcing us to do something we may not want to do. In BC I didn't do isle of quel'danas, Wrath I did everything, Cata I didn't do firelands, MoP I didn't do isle of thunder (only sort of did isle of timeless just for some quick gear upgrades).

Blizzards new model is I have to do all of that before I can fly. So to enjoy the game the way I want, I have to complete it first to have nothing left to do.

That is poor design. And is/will result in less people subbing.

Yes, and you keep saying enjoy the game you want, and if you don't like it you're free to not play until WoW puts it back in the game. It's game design, it's not poor game design. I agree it will result in less subs, which is understandable.

[Bun-Bun]

Yes, and you keep saying enjoy the game you want, and if you don't like it you're free to not play until WoW puts it back in the game. It's game design, it's not poor game design. I agree it will result in less subs, which is understandable.

Game design that results in less people playing (ie. less money and less people in the world) is poor game design.

[Eapoe]

Game design that results in less people playing (ie. less money and less people in the world) is poor game design.

It's more of poor decision making if that's the audience you are wanting to keep. Poor game design is more of bad story pacing (which I admit is more of a problem lately), bad graphics, glitches, mechanics that don't work properly. WoW is still a very well designed game in these regards. Even the most perfectly designed game can fail if executed like crap.

[Bun-Bun]

Would everyone be happy with a middle ground?

Flying enabled, but in every major hub some sort of anti flying force-field. Sort of like when your mounted near a Conquest Vendor.
Flying to and from locations can still happen and blizzard can turn on flying when they feel the time is right.


I would have been perfectly happy if I could have flown in WOD but was dismounted near the apexis hubs, main towns, etc.

I am fine with no-fly zones as long as they are reasonable and have lore that makes sense around them.

Dal was a no fly zone. It was fine. It's like the dev's forgot about WotLK.

[Mafic]

*Takes off stealth mode*

Blizzards fee fees are hurt that players bypass their so called 'content". The truth is WoW has some of the worst world content on the market today compared to other MMORPG's. Legion is more of the same Apexis grinding bar stuff and Arcane mana grinding that serves no overall purpose. A Korean grinder even has currency that you grind for to stay meaningful throughout the expansion and life of the game.

Preach covered it in this video about Blizzard's pride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPus4eDaqzA

The bean counters are going to arm twist them to bring flying a lot sooner than the devs want I suspect. I will not be shocked if that happens again like last time.

*stealth mode activated*

[Bun-Bun]

It's more of poor decision making if that's the audience you are wanting to keep. Poor game design is more of bad story pacing (which I admit is more of a problem lately), bad graphics, glitches, mechanics that don't work properly. WoW is still a very well designed game in these regards. Even the most perfectly designed game can fail if executed like crap.

bugs and mechanic issues are execution of game design, not game design. At least not in the sense I am discussing it. Game design exists at a much higher level.

- - - Updated - - -

The bean counters are going to arm twist them to bring flying a lot sooner than the devs want I suspect. I will not be shocked if that happens again like last time.

This is my hope. I am going to unsub at legion launch and let them know its because of how they continue to handle flight.

[Connll]

*Takes off stealth mode*

Blizzards fee fees are hurt that players bypass their so called 'content". The truth is WoW has some of the worst world content on the market today compared to other MMORPG's. Legion is more of the same Apexis grinding bar stuff and Arcane mana grinding that serves no overall purpose. A Korean grinder even has currency that you grind for to stay meaningful throughout the expansion and life of the game.

Preach covered it in this video about Blizzard's pride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPus4eDaqzA

Interesting video.

While I don´t think all of the points are that important (the one about changing talents is bound to be adressed soon; either by removing the need to be in a city, or by nerfing the difficulty of dungeons/raids) I see that they might add frustration after playing several times.

The bean counters are going to arm twist them to bring flying a lot sooner than the devs want I suspect. I will not be shocked if that happens again like last time.

*stealth mode activated*

Hopefully, it will happen.

[Eapoe]

*Takes off stealth mode*

Blizzards fee fees are hurt that players bypass their so called 'content". The truth is WoW has some of the worst world content on the market today compared to other MMORPG's. Legion is more of the same Apexis grinding bar stuff and Arcane mana grinding that serves no overall purpose. A Korean grinder even has currency that you grind for to stay meaningful throughout the expansion and life of the game.

Preach covered it in this video about Blizzard's pride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPus4eDaqzA

The bean counters are going to arm twist them to bring flying a lot sooner than the devs want I suspect. I will not be shocked if that happens again like last time.

*stealth mode activated*

As much as Preach complains about the game, I'm surprised he even still plays it. He says WoW is the worst world content, he's been quoted as discussing the issues with travel time, yet he still finds the game enjoyable enough with all the flaws he discusses to continue playing it. Every time someone quotes one of these YouTube posts, I laugh a little. It's someone that has paid a sub fee and continues playing the entire life cycle of content and supporting Blizzqrd, yet people quote them as to why no one should support Blizzard.
As far as the Korean grindfest you speak about, what exactly would you call the obtaining of artifact power and the RNG of loot thru all aspects of the game? You ask for something to be in game to keep you interested/keep you playing, and when Blizz gives it to you, it's complained about. I hear all this talk of "new content new content NEW FUCKING CONTENT!" yet to deliver on the scale of what people ask for would require devs to work 24/7/365.
You're not going to be shocked by what, that flight is released close to the middle of the xpac as is their projected release date? Who are these bean counters you speak of? WoW, even with players "no flight=no sub" mantra of WoD, is still more successful than any other mmo and has more active subscribers than any of those to date. As long as Blizz keeps this going, and keeps making a profit on this IP, I doubt the bean counters are going to care all that much.

[Maneo]

"Tedium and annoyance" is a very relative term. If people found ground content so bad they'd never make it past Vanilla content, let alone all the way to lvl 100.

Apples and Oranges. Vanilla was the game where leveling was the bulk of your experience. Every mob you killed had purpose because it took months to level. Currently you are max level in less then 8 hours.

Please answer the question instead of this.. stuff

Since you obviously are unwilling or incapable of understanding the answer I will spell it out for you more clearly.

If you think the content is trash, why are you playing? /headdesk

I play the leveling experience (non flight) and I enjoy it. The first few times I do the dailies or world quests I enjoy them. The problem arises around 1-3 months into the expac.

I do not find riding through an to a objective area for the 20th time (no different then the previous 19) dealing w/WoWs horrible collision mechanics, terrain inconsistency and Leveling mobs so tightly packed I either have to take 5 detour to avoid, 5 minutes to kill even though they offer no threat, challenge or reward, or of course I can just ride through them to leashing them to my destination hoping they don't stun or dismount me.

Do you honestly find that engaging and compelling game play? If so I promise you are the minority. Simple truth is look at any AAA open world game released in the last 5 years, Fallout 4, Far Cry, both once you discover an area you can instantly port to it again at your leisure why do you think that is? It is simple really those developers understand that reducing tedium and annoyance is a good thing. Even in games like GTAV, and Just Cause 3 games where travel is a significant part of the game (actually in the name in one case), offer fast travel once a location is discovered, again why do you think that is?

One month after WoD, w/out flight, this is what my play time looked like.
1. Log into two toons do garrison missions
2. Do daily pet battle at garrison on the two toons
3. Maybe level another toons (did it 8 more times actually)
4. Log on for raid. (3-4 hours a week)

This is what my play time looks like w/flight being enabled.
1. Log in check garrisons on 11 toons (got to make that gold to keep my sub up)
2. Do garrison daily pet battles on 11 (got to prep for the pets coming in Legion)
3. Level another toon (don't do this anymore as I have a max level of every class)
4. Kill/Collect Rares/Treasures missed on my alts
5. Finish up quest chains missed on my alts
6. Do the garrison campaign or garrison quests (harrison jones) on my alts
7. Do the daily pet battles, outside the garrison even Tanaan
8. Collect and battle wild pets (don't do this much anymore as I have every pet available to me)
9. Do some gathering, honestly one of my favorite things to do is throw on some itunes and gather for a hour to unwind. Not really possible w/out flight
10. Go out to Tanaan, kill some rares
11. Do some some dailies while in Tanaan.
12. Just fly around and landing if I see anything interesting, from a mining node, a rare, someone needing help in WPVP. Anti fly boyz seem to have a hard time grasping that you have to land to actually do those things though.

Personally I don't believe flight is content, however it does enable content. Taking a look at those two lists what one actually includes more play time? I know I know what you are going to say "You could do all that w/out flight" yes I could but I didn't want to because the tedium and annoyance exceeds the reward or fun to be had. aka bad game design and why every other open world game has a better method of fast travel then "Flight Paths" more at place in 2004 along w/SWG shuttle system.

I have determined anti fly folks fall into a few categories typically.
1. Old school MMO players that believe you should have to suffer, grind and work before you have fun.

2. Capital City campers those that the majority of the game is instanced content for them and they are unable to understand how anyone plays differently.

3. WPVP folks, even though nobody cares not even Blizzard. Lets be honest if you are playing WoW for WPVP you are playing the wrong game. First there are no rewards for WPVP, most of the player base are on PVE servers, w/the remaining being on PVP servers so horribly balanced may as well be PVE servers. Only 3-4 real PVP servers exist. I would bet pet battles see more willing participation then WPVP, hell maybe even archeology.

4. The Blizzard devotees. These are the guys that believe sans flight Blizzard will develop more engaging dynamic content, at a faster pace. I could honestly understand this one prior to WoD, but people that still believe this .. I honestly don't know what to say.

5. Trolls

So what one are you? The Blizzard message boards it is pretty easy to figure out. The anti flight people with high achievement points are the old school MMO players, the ones around 10k are the capital city camper, the WPVP folks have mostly pvp achievements, the Blizzard devotees give themselves away when talking, as to the trolls.

Now in regards to why PREACH keeps playing even though he complains about the game so much... simple cause he makes money doing it. Hell if I made 500 dollars a month playing WoW, i wouldn't mind the tedium and annoyance post level cap.

[Eapoe]

Apples and Oranges. Vanilla was the game where leveling was the bulk of your experience. Every mob you killed had purpose because it took months to level. Currently you are max level in less then 8 hours.



Since you obviously are unwilling or incapable of understanding the answer I will spell it out for you more clearly.



I play the leveling experience (non flight) and I enjoy it. The first few times I do the dailies or world quests I enjoy them. The problem arises around 1-3 months into the expac.

I do not find riding through an to a objective area for the 20th time (no different then the previous 19) dealing w/WoWs horrible collision mechanics, terrain inconsistency and Leveling mobs so tightly packed I either have to take 5 detour to avoid, 5 minutes to kill even though they offer no threat, challenge or reward, or of course I can just ride through them to leashing them to my destination hoping they don't stun or dismount me.

Do you honestly find that engaging and compelling game play? If so I promise you are the minority. Simple truth is look at any AAA open world game released in the last 5 years, Fallout 4, Far Cry, both once you discover an area you can instantly port to it again at your leisure why do you think that is? It is simple really those developers understand that reducing tedium and annoyance is a good thing. Even in games like GTAV, and Just Cause 3 games where travel is a significant part of the game (actually in the name in one case), offer fast travel once a location is discovered, again why do you think that is?

One month after WoD, w/out flight, this is what my play time looked like.
1. Log into two toons do garrison missions
2. Do daily pet battle at garrison on the two toons
3. Maybe level another toons (did it 8 more times actually)
4. Log on for raid. (3-4 hours a week)

This is what my play time looks like w/flight being enabled.
1. Log in check garrisons on 11 toons (got to make that gold to keep my sub up)
2. Do garrison daily pet battles on 11 (got to prep for the pets coming in Legion)
3. Level another toon (don't do this anymore as I have a max level of every class)
4. Kill/Collect Rares/Treasures missed on my alts
5. Finish up quest chains missed on my alts
6. Do the garrison campaign or garrison quests (harrison jones) on my alts
7. Do the daily pet battles, outside the garrison even Tanaan
8. Collect and battle wild pets (don't do this much anymore as I have every pet available to me)
9. Do some gathering, honestly one of my favorite things to do is throw on some itunes and gather for a hour to unwind. Not really possible w/out flight
10. Go out to Tanaan, kill some rares
11. Do some some dailies while in Tanaan.
12. Just fly around and landing if I see anything interesting, from a mining node, a rare, someone needing help in WPVP. Anti fly boyz seem to have a hard time grasping that you have to land to actually do those things though.

Personally I don't believe flight is content, however it does enable content. Taking a look at those two lists what one actually includes more play time? I know I know what you are going to say "You could do all that w/out flight" yes I could but I didn't want to because the tedium and annoyance exceeds the reward or fun to be had. aka bad game design and why every other open world game has a better method of fast travel then "Flight Paths" more at place in 2004 along w/SWG shuttle system.

I have determined anti fly folks fall into a few categories typically.
1. Old school MMO players that believe you should have to suffer, grind and work before you have fun.

2. Capital City campers those that the majority of the game is instanced content for them and they are unable to understand how anyone plays differently.

3. WPVP folks, even though nobody cares not even Blizzard. Lets be honest if you are playing WoW for WPVP you are playing the wrong game. First there are no rewards for WPVP, most of the player base are on PVE servers, w/the remaining being on PVP servers so horribly balanced may as well be PVE servers. Only 3-4 real PVP servers exist. I would bet pet battles see more willing participation then WPVP, hell maybe even archeology.

4. The Blizzard devotees. These are the guys that believe sans flight Blizzard will develop more engaging dynamic content, at a faster pace. I could honestly understand this one prior to WoD, but people that still believe this .. I honestly don't know what to say.

5. Trolls

So what one are you? The Blizzard message boards it is pretty easy to figure out. The anti flight people with high achievement points are the old school MMO players, the ones around 10k are the capital city camper, the WPVP folks have mostly pvp achievements, the Blizzard devotees give themselves away when talking, as to the trolls.

Now in regards to why PREACH keeps playing even though he complains about the game so much... simple cause he makes money doing it. Hell if I made 500 dollars a month playing WoW, i wouldn't mind the tedium and annoyance post level cap.

Been playing since Wrath, not sure if at this point you'd call that old school or not. I have achievements b/c I enjoy the game. If it's coming down to trying to lessen people's points by bringing up achievements then the grasping is becoming strong.
He still makes money playing a game thru an entire lifecycle. If you truly dislike something, you won't stay doing it. Maybe if you have problems paying the bills. After all, aren't you one of the many saying you won't sub until flight hits?
There's also other groups you forgot to mention:
1. Those that are happy with the game without flight.
2. Those that just don't care.
People that are pro-flight:
1. RP'ers that enjoy the aspect of pretend or really getting into the game.
2. People that enjoy flight for what it is, a convenience and way to skip things.
3. People that like seeing wings flap.
Yeah, I got nothing else.
If you want to know what type of gamer I am, it's simple, I enjoy the game. I have fun playing, with or without flight. When it's in game I'll admit to using it to exploit every bit as much as the next person. As it stands though, no flight did not ruin the game for me as I still enjoyed WoD before it was back. If I didn't enjoy the game, I wouldn't be playing it. I don't mind the grind of an MMORPG as that's partly the point of one, I also don't mind the heirloom system for alts to catchup after that grind. I play what I enjoy, plain and simple.

[Nachtigal]

but why blizzard don't implement a system like final fantasy, you complete a zone collect things that allow you to fly in that zone and by doing so unlock more quests, hubs , secret locations etc.
The problem is that blizzard tell us that flying diminish the content and make it cheap in fact flying if implemented correctly expand the thing you can do, unfortunately blizzard refuse to implement it correctly that is the thing that i hate the most.
This entire discussion is ridiculous peoples should be banging their head at blizzard demanding flying to be implemented the correct way because that mean more world content to do no less.

- - - Updated - - -



in fact it is precisely what he is saying, a single apexis daily took nearly the same time to be done than all the dailies wotlk had, that is effectively less content for the same time played.

Flying REMOVES the mystery of the world, and REMOVES the dangerous feeling. We do not need flying that allows us to skip over mobs/obstacles. Id be okay with flying everywhere at launch if they add mobs that can shoot you down and dismount you, and have the skybox low enough that you can't just fly super high.

[Fabinas]

Flying REMOVES the mystery of the world, and REMOVES the dangerous feeling. We do not need flying that allows us to skip over mobs/obstacles. Id be okay with flying everywhere at launch if they add mobs that can shoot you down and dismount you, and have the skybox low enough that you can't just fly super high.

Go play another game. WoW has flight and will have flight.

[wing5wong]

Go play another game. WoW has flight and will have flight.

as long as you do pathfinder first

[Eapoe]

Flying REMOVES the mystery of the world, and REMOVES the dangerous feeling. We do not need flying that allows us to skip over mobs/obstacles. Id be okay with flying everywhere at launch if they add mobs that can shoot you down and dismount you, and have the skybox low enough that you can't just fly super high.

Good luck with that. People have proposed similar things and peoples tune changes from: "yeah, mystery! exploration! FEELINGS!" to becoming "no, screw that, why should I have to compromise? I want to do all those things to bypass all of that stuff because we always could before!"
As it stands, not a bad idea though for flying at launch, or even while leveling too.

[clevin]

Good luck with that. People have proposed similar things and peoples tune changes from: "yeah, mystery! exploration! FEELINGS!" to becoming "no, screw that, why should I have to compromise? I want to do all those things to bypass all of that stuff because we always could before!"
As it stands, not a bad idea though for flying at launch, or even while leveling too.

Because the game had unrestricted flight without these silly compromises for almost 8 of the first 10 years it existed and it was FINE. If it was so terrible, why didn't all the people hating the game so much quit? Because it wasn't bad. Millions, tens of millions, played. Flight has never been an issue and there's no reason to compromise because of some emo wannabe hardcore.

[Eapoe]

Because the game had unrestricted flight without these silly compromises for almost 8 of the first 10 years it existed and it was FINE. If it was so terrible, why didn't all the people hating the game so much quit? Because it wasn't bad. Millions, tens of millions, played. Flight has never been an issue and there's no reason to compromise because of some emo wannabe hardcore.

It's not a matter of people hating the game...it's a matter of just not caring about it to the point of it being gone they start screaming the sky is falling like others have been. The compromise isn't mine, it's a suggestion by someone else for Blizzard. I do enjoy the overall lack of intelligence and sense of entitlement from a lot of your posts though, especially when they degrade even further by just being insulting.
You are right though, the game was and still is good. The lack of flight didn't change that. It's more just people being upset that it's taken away because it's a feature they liked. You don't want to compromise? That's fine, if t breaks your enjoyment that much then don't play, that's your right.

[Jaylock]

Because the game had unrestricted flight without these silly compromises for almost 8 of the first 10 years it existed and it was FINE. If it was so terrible, why didn't all the people hating the game so much quit? Because it wasn't bad. Millions, tens of millions, played. Flight has never been an issue and there's no reason to compromise because of some emo wannabe hardcore.

So the game developers thinking that they want to keep players grounded to foster better game play is "emo wannabe hardcore?" The developers made this change collectively because they inherently believe that a grounded game is better than a boundless game with no restrictions. Not to mention a shallow game when they effectively allow people to skip quest obstacles and go straight from point A to point B. And before you pull shit out of your ass and claim "herpa derp, den mak teh flight more interstig!!!" the developers have already stated why they just don't make a bunch of cannons trying to shoot you down... because it would just be a frustrating mess.

At the end of the day you got your way. You whined and kicked your feet, and cried until Blizzard gave into you and your like. You have flight in Legion. I think the compromise they struck was fair though. You get flight a few patches in, after most of the content has been consumed from the ground. Fair. Ez pz.

[Zalamander]

People that are pro-flight:
1. RP'ers that enjoy the aspect of pretend or really getting into the game.
2. People that enjoy flight for what it is, a convenience and way to skip things.
3. People that like seeing wings flap.
Yeah, I got nothing else.

Mate, you got three tries and still didn't even manage to hit the majority of the people who loves flying and their reason. You should really just get out of this thread since you don't even know why we want to fly.