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  1. #1661
    Bloodsail Admiral keqe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcuro View Post
    wait i am confused now.
    did i read correctly that playing the orb game to be around 30-70% health isnt correct anymore?
    how are we supposed to use ISB and PB now?
    or did i read something wrong?
    Do i now use Gift of the Mist or light brewing? (dont like Black Ox Brew)

    considering both for WoD (meaning without OD because well, no artifact ) and later in legion

    i dont know how to tank anymore ): its so sad... dont want to reroll protadin just to have a clear way to tank (hitting SotR when big hit will come.. easy as that)
    Well in Legion you most likely don't want to use IsB at full health just to reduce overhealing from HoTs and such. But overall yes it won't really matter at what % hp you are. Gift of the Mists is quite strong and probably the best for dungeon content. With it it is worth trying to hover around 50% HP using IsB smartly, but not as radically as originally thought that you "have" to be low. Being full HP isn't really punishing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    For everything else, there's Brewmastercard

  2. #1662
    Bloodsail Admiral Sickjen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skybliss View Post
    It's really boring and slow on the beta compared to live, and the new brew mechanic as 'active' mitigation is pretty much a passive part of the rotation in fights... skillcap is dramatically lowered, why the hell did they have to rework it completely? I'm finding it hard to believe many pre-existing BrM monks would actually like this change

    The only thing they have actually managed to get right is the chi torpedo talent row, that's actually a pretty awesome change, but other then that I am really upset with the dumbing down of skill and the slower pace.

    I also can't wait for the live game to hit to see 200 WW monks sat in my class hall with green circles floating about everywhere, talk about class fantasy!!!!!!!!!!!
    I only main one character which is my monk. I've been playing my brewmaster since the release of them. I could live with losing avert harm/clash.. i wasn't happy about it but it wasn't destroying the class. Fast forward to legion we get an entire revamp which arguably nobody wanted. I'm not giving up on Monk but just brewmaster until blizzard throws some reasonable changes our way. Windwalker looks somewhat appealing.

    It's sad Demon Hunters will be taking our raid spots. Nobody want's a tank that can't self sustain.
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  3. #1663
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abominable View Post
    It's sad Demon Hunters will be taking our raid spots. Nobody want's a tank that can't self sustain.
    I know right, no one ever took warrior tanks for their raids

  4. #1664
    Bloodsail Admiral keqe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abominable View Post
    It's sad Demon Hunters will be taking our raid spots. Nobody want's a tank that can't self sustain.
    The tank which will actually "take our spots" is the one which can tank the content with the least gear. Usually "self sustain" classes don't fit to that category that well and even in beginning of WoD we saw warriors and paladins as the most used tanks by top teams. Legion might seem somewhat similar with warrior and paladin having strong mitigation tools without needing gear to empower them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    For everything else, there's Brewmastercard

  5. #1665
    Quote Originally Posted by Willus View Post
    I know right, no one ever took warrior tanks for their raids
    Most good guilds that can cherrypick, will cherrypick, unless their GM is a prot warr. That said, it really doesn't matter much outside top 100 or so.
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    Tanking should not exist just to let healers and dps have fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coramac
    If a monk has 200k DTPS and 200k HPS in hots on him, does anyone hear when he purifies?
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  6. #1666
    Quote Originally Posted by keqe View Post
    The tank which will actually "take our spots" is the one which can tank the content with the least gear. Usually "self sustain" classes don't fit to that category that well and even in beginning of WoD we saw warriors and paladins as the most used tanks by top teams. Legion might seem somewhat similar with warrior and paladin having strong mitigation tools without needing gear to empower them.
    ive been watching slootbag do mythic + dungeons lately. he was running a 840ish geared dh tank and his health was yoyoing all over the place. he then brought in his 799ilvl prot warrior and his health basically never moved.

    to me, prot and guardians are going to be taken a lot at the beginning of the tier - but once geared, who knows what tanks will be favored.

  7. #1667
    Quote Originally Posted by Abominable View Post
    I only main one character which is my monk. I've been playing my brewmaster since the release of them. I could live with losing avert harm/clash.. i wasn't happy about it but it wasn't destroying the class. Fast forward to legion we get an entire revamp which arguably nobody wanted. I'm not giving up on Monk but just brewmaster until blizzard throws some reasonable changes our way. Windwalker looks somewhat appealing.

    It's sad Demon Hunters will be taking our raid spots. Nobody want's a tank that can't self sustain.
    If you really are keen on continuing Brewmaster I recommend giving it a few levels come Legion. The spec's changed, but I'd recommend giving it at least a couple of levels to see if you get used to and enjoy (or are at least willing to deal with) the change in rotation and what not. I don't think everyone will eventually be won over, but I've had multiple people tell me that after a few levels of actually playing Brewmaster it felt better than they initially expected. Of course, I expect a good number of people to gravitate towards other tanks, Demon Hunters in particular with the parity it has with current Brewmaster.

    The TL;DR of this paragraph is to wait till Legion and give it a few levels worth of time to see if it grows on you or if its something that you'd rather shelve.

    As far as raid spots, that really only matters if you're in the extremes of content progression. If you're a good, established tank in your guild and they don't require you having several tank alts to min/max tanks then you'll be fine/safe. Those Demon Hunters are more than likely going to be the tank that rolls leather while the other rolls plate or something of that nature.
    Every time you say "Brewmasters need to stay at 40-60% to be optimal" your favorite deity kills 10 kittens. Here is how it actually works from the Sparkle Dragon's mouth
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  8. #1668
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    ive been watching slootbag do mythic + dungeons lately. he was running a 840ish geared dh tank and his health was yoyoing all over the place. he then brought in his 799ilvl prot warrior and his health basically never moved.

    to me, prot and guardians are going to be taken a lot at the beginning of the tier - but once geared, who knows what tanks will be favored.
    I've been saying this since the PTR came out. But I would expect a Warrior nerf. They can do things other tanks 30 ilvl higher than them can't Either that or expect other tanks to get buffs.

  9. #1669
    Warriors have the absorbs vs heals dilemma right now, in addition to likely being a bit overpowered. What I mean is, it's way better to put up a 400k absorb shield with Ignore Pain than it is to have your health spike down and get a 400k heal from Gift of the Ox. Absorbs are just better

  10. #1670
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampere View Post
    Warriors have the absorbs vs heals dilemma right now, in addition to likely being a bit overpowered. What I mean is, it's way better to put up a 400k absorb shield with Ignore Pain than it is to have your health spike down and get a 400k heal from Gift of the Ox. Absorbs are just better
    which is why everyone wanted disc priests

    sloot did say that brm was really solid in mythic testing. so ill be interested to see how things shake out.

  11. #1671
    I finally got Obstinate Determination today, I have to say, it does make a world of difference, I would very much so say i'm on par with my warrior. I just don't die anymore, but that is me pulling 8 mobs on myself to simulate heavy damage taken. I will have to try it out in a dungeon or something, but so far, it makes a world of difference and some spice to the spec.

  12. #1672
    My biggest problem with brewmaster is the level 100 talents. I want a talent I can activate and gain an advantage. Everything currently seems automatic. Even if the activated ability is worse mated out I want something I can click when things get crazy. And not 5 minute cd crazy but that extra damage mitigation that I want or extra healing. Something more.

  13. #1673
    Quote Originally Posted by arcuro View Post
    wait i am confused now.
    did i read correctly that playing the orb game to be around 30-70% health isnt correct anymore?
    how are we supposed to use ISB and PB now?
    or did i read something wrong?
    Do i now use Gift of the Mist or light brewing? (dont like Black Ox Brew)

    considering both for WoD (meaning without OD because well, no artifact ) and later in legion

    i dont know how to tank anymore ): its so sad... dont want to reroll protadin just to have a clear way to tank (hitting SotR when big hit will come.. easy as that)
    Do not lose faith, brother.

    Here's how you do it, at least what I've been doing, anyway:

    Don't start the fight with Ironskin Brew up unless you're in danger of autodeath (packs of 6+). Let them get you to 65-45%, then ISB. Don't pick up your orbs. Wait until you've got sufficient stagger to drop you below 35% to trigger OD. The healer should be healing you a bit that this point, but your stagger should be able to keep you going between sub and supra 35% to spawn more orbs along with the 100%-hp taken orb from the melee. Once you've used 1-2 ISB, grab them orbs and Purify, then repeat the process again. With 2-ish ranks of Overflow, all it takes is 4-6 orbs to completely heal you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    sloot did say that brm was really solid in mythic testing. so ill be interested to see how things shake out.
    After watching Slootbag's last attempt at Brm, I doubt his observations are worth much.

  14. #1674
    It wasn't slootbag playing Brewmaster from what I understand. It was their monk Naowh who was testing Brewmaster while Sloot was playing something else (I'm assuming Pally or Bear). Of course I'd be more interested in what Naowh or their healers said about it, but they're also most likely to be above your average raider as well in how well their group plays and really good healers can affect how a class is perceived. One of the two bosses was absolutely mauling tanks (I think Botanist?) and Brewmaster's weakness to truly hard hitting bosses (I.e. Velhari and Butcher) was shown, but there're so many bosses where tank damage is being reported as relatively unthreatening that I'm not sure which is actually intended anyway.
    Every time you say "Brewmasters need to stay at 40-60% to be optimal" your favorite deity kills 10 kittens. Here is how it actually works from the Sparkle Dragon's mouth
    Play Monster Hunter? Here's my FC: 1779-0791-2717

    Thanks Shyama for the awesome Signature

  15. #1675
    Quote Originally Posted by stross01 View Post
    Do not lose faith, brother.

    Here's how you do it, at least what I've been doing, anyway:

    Don't start the fight with Ironskin Brew up unless you're in danger of autodeath (packs of 6+). Let them get you to 65-45%, then ISB. Don't pick up your orbs. Wait until you've got sufficient stagger to drop you below 35% to trigger OD. The healer should be healing you a bit that this point, but your stagger should be able to keep you going between sub and supra 35% to spawn more orbs along with the 100%-hp taken orb from the melee. Once you've used 1-2 ISB, grab them orbs and Purify, then repeat the process again. With 2-ish ranks of Overflow, all it takes is 4-6 orbs to completely heal you.

    - - - Updated - - -



    After watching Slootbag's last attempt at Brm, I doubt his observations are worth much.
    wasnt him, was the other main tank in Serenity.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Leblue View Post
    It wasn't slootbag playing Brewmaster from what I understand. It was their monk Naowh who was testing Brewmaster while Sloot was playing something else (I'm assuming Pally or Bear). Of course I'd be more interested in what Naowh or their healers said about it, but they're also most likely to be above your average raider as well in how well their group plays and really good healers can affect how a class is perceived. One of the two bosses was absolutely mauling tanks (I think Botanist?) and Brewmaster's weakness to truly hard hitting bosses (I.e. Velhari and Butcher) was shown, but there're so many bosses where tank damage is being reported as relatively unthreatening that I'm not sure which is actually intended anyway.
    i think the important point is that they thought monk would likely not be that great but ended up surprising them. at least, thats what i took from it.

  16. #1676
    Quote Originally Posted by Leblue View Post
    One of the two bosses was absolutely mauling tanks (I think Botanist?) and Brewmaster's weakness to truly hard hitting bosses (I.e. Velhari and Butcher) was shown, but there're so many bosses where tank damage is being reported as relatively unthreatening that I'm not sure which is actually intended anyway.
    I don't know about anyone else, but I shined like the sun on Tyrant and never had problems on Butcher.

    WTB some logs though.

    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    i think the important point is that they thought monk would likely not be that great but ended up surprising them. at least, thats what i took from it.
    Without logs, this falls under the hyperbole/anecdotal that everyone hates so much.

  17. #1677
    Bloodsail Admiral keqe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stross01 View Post
    I don't know about anyone else, but I shined like the sun on Tyrant and never had problems on Butcher.
    I guess he meant bosses of "that caliber" for Legion Brewmaster, not those bosses "back then". Meaning how legion brewmaster handles sustained, very high damage like there is on those fights.

    Of course "back then" those were jokes, dodging bleeds and lol stagger on Butcher and lol 4pc on Tyrant and guard spam.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    For everything else, there's Brewmastercard

  18. #1678
    Quote Originally Posted by stross01 View Post
    I don't know about anyone else, but I shined like the sun on Tyrant and never had problems on Butcher.
    Was in reference to Legion Brewmaster, not live. 4 piece and WUE did make for good giggles on Tyrant and Butcher had people doing ChiEx on progression because "balanced".

    Quote Originally Posted by stross01 View Post
    Without logs, this falls under the hyperbole/anecdotal that everyone hates so much.
    I agree here. While its refreshing to hear someone was pleasantly surprised I'd really like to see some logs and maybe video, but I don't think their logs are going to be public and I'm unable to check Sloot's stream to see if he streamed it at all while at work.
    Every time you say "Brewmasters need to stay at 40-60% to be optimal" your favorite deity kills 10 kittens. Here is how it actually works from the Sparkle Dragon's mouth
    Play Monster Hunter? Here's my FC: 1779-0791-2717

    Thanks Shyama for the awesome Signature

  19. #1679
    Quote Originally Posted by Leblue View Post
    Was in reference to Legion Brewmaster, not live. 4 piece and WUE did make for good giggles on Tyrant and Butcher had people doing ChiEx on progression because "balanced".



    I agree here. While its refreshing to hear someone was pleasantly surprised I'd really like to see some logs and maybe video, but I don't think their logs are going to be public and I'm unable to check Sloot's stream to see if he streamed it at all while at work.
    I watched Sloot for about an our or so last week he seemed to me to be leaning Warrior or DK. When he talked about BrM he just said " From everything I've heard they are solid".

  20. #1680
    Was testing mythic Botanist and the tankdamage was indeed incredibly high. We switched to 3 tanks pretty soon and ran with Warrior, DH and Brewmaster. I tanked the blue/green one together with the Warrior and while tanking was stressful, I ended up living longer than the warrior. Most of the time I was one of the last players standing.

    I must say I´m pretty surprised by this (espacially healing done: https:/ /w ww.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TCZqmGa3gxhLdWbH/#type=healing&boss=1886&wipes=1). From what i had experienced while leveling and doing dungeons I didn´t expect the Brewmaster being that decent on this boss. But nonetheless: I really don´t like the new Brewmaster and the playstyle going along with it.
    Last edited by balsa; 2016-06-21 at 09:11 PM.

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