How are DH's doing in Raids?

[Jhiz]

Jhiz, saying the momentum build is dead is wrong lol. Tons of people on this forum are using it to very great success.

and those same people only play demonic and never try another talent, it was the goto spec for all things, now it requires heavy CDR on eyebeam to be the best and will perform best in aoe (5+targets) situations.

I don't get it. Metamorphosis is such a big cooldown, yet you guys tell us that DHs are "doing fine" - On a 1min20sec fight where >50% of the time the player was in meta heavily increasing DPS. We can say something like "DHs are doing fine" when we're in the middle after 4 minutes but I wouldn't conclude anything from a 1min20sec attempt.

Meta is 4mins with traits (or less with relics) most class cds are 3mins, its not actually that long a cd compared to the current state of cooldowns.

[Vanyali]

and those same people only play demonic and never try another talent, it was the goto spec for all things, now it requires heavy CDR on eyebeam to be the best and will perform best in aoe (5+targets) situations.

That would be well and wrong.

Accusing others of "not testing right" or "only doing one thing" is a well-used tactic in DH forums. Unfortunately, it's well known for the person using it to be talking straight from their ass rather than for being right.

[Jhiz]

I play both momentum/demonic and cb/nemesis and the fact of the matter is momentum isnt the best spec for st and cleave fights, and in its current form works best vs many mobs and on a st fight i will do easily 25% less dmg with demonic build then with cb build. Do i perform very well with demonic, yes. Do i perform better with CB vs 1-2 target, yes.

Even if you dont agree, if one build is the best for ST Cleave and AoE you can guarantee it wont be on release.

[Vanyali]

I've never said that, and people that have been testing DH here have been noting that since before you started posting in the DH forum. It also HEAVILY depends on what the boss requires, as Momentum provides burst windows at a quicker pace (<2min, basically) than Nemesis, which means that a fight that requires frequent bursting will be better with Momentum because topping the meters isn't the end all be all to fights. Far more often a fight depends on proper burst windows than just a patchwork loldps.

I was pointing out that your method of "they only play demonic they don't know" is both flawed and stupid as fuck. It's been used by other people that want to try to prove how much better they are, and it's generally laughed out. If you want to be a part of this community, welcome. If you want to try to pretend you're better than everyone else, fuck off to talk to a mirror.

[Tato23]

Maybe you just need to practice the build more? You are kinda against a ton of people in this forum haha, kinda weird to be the only one on that side, just saying.

[Mad_Murdock]

Maybe you just need to practice the build more? You are kinda against a ton of people in this forum haha, kinda weird to be the only one on that side, just saying.

You're missing the real joy here. Do you remembers when DKs launched? Everyone was a DK and everyone was an expert on how to best play the spec. Oh the trade chat and dungeon party arguments were glorious. I'm hoping we'll see this again with DHers

[Tato23]

You're missing the real joy here. Do you remembers when DKs launched? Everyone was a DK and everyone was an expert on how to best play the spec. Oh the trade chat and dungeon party arguments were glorious. I'm hoping we'll see this again with DHers

Yeah i remember haha, i also remember those dks were insanely op when they launched, not sure if DHs will be like that at launch, doesn't look like as hugely op as dks

[Jhiz]

I've never said that, and people that have been testing DH here have been noting that since before you started posting in the DH forum. It also HEAVILY depends on what the boss requires, as Momentum provides burst windows at a quicker pace (<2min, basically) than Nemesis, which means that a fight that requires frequent bursting will be better with Momentum because topping the meters isn't the end all be all to fights. Far more often a fight depends on proper burst windows than just a patchwork loldps.

I was pointing out that your method of "they only play demonic they don't know" is both flawed and stupid as fuck. It's been used by other people that want to try to prove how much better they are, and it's generally laughed out. If you want to be a part of this community, welcome. If you want to try to pretend you're better than everyone else, fuck off to talk to a mirror.

I only came to this forum to provide input, there is a large number of people that are concerned that the momentum/demonic builds would become compulsory and the stigma of it being the ONLY viable build that it was considered since alpha and was true until very recently overall is DEAD it is not the be all end all talent setup for dhs, personally i love the demonic playstyle its super engaging but its not without its flaws, that being said not everyone wants a 1 trick pony class, you are the one that jumped on the "your logic is flawed bandwagon" yet you havent actually provided any information other then your opinion and vaguely referencing the alleged entire opinion of a community that you claim to speak for.

[Tato23]

I only came to this forum to provide input, there is a large number of people that are concerned that the momentum/demonic builds would become compulsory and the stigma of it being the ONLY viable build that it was considered since alpha and was true until very recently overall is DEAD it is not the be all end all talent setup for dhs, personally i love the demonic playstyle its super engaging but its not without its flaws, that being said not everyone wants a 1 trick pony class, you are the one that jumped on the "your logic is flawed bandwagon" yet you havent actually provided any information other then your opinion and vaguely referencing the alleged entire opinion of a community that you claim to speak for.

Ummm dude, we provided a dps log for you to prove that the spec is not dead. We jumped on you because you said the spec was "dead" someone new could come to this forum and see you said that and take it for fact. The spec is not the only spec to play but it is not dead, therefor you saying that we called you out to being wrong...which is fact. Plenty of logs have been posted that suggest the momentum build is more than capable of doing well.

[Jhiz]

....... Dragons isnt a 1-2 target fight so you arent really showing anything other then what i have been saying, the idea that momentum is the only build is dead, you are seriously defensive about someone simply putting input into a thread about their current state in raids, as for impressions on new people to the "community" you speak for, you should be more concerned with providing input to them rather then telling people to fuck off and talk to a mirror because they suggested something you dont agree with but is proven right.

[Tato23]

Ok, well how about you show come logs of dps comparrisons between the build you think is dead, and the others? You asked proof for us, how about you back up your claim too.

[Deleted]

I don't know which is better Nemesis/momentum, but I really hope it's momentum just cause.

*grabs popcorn

[ujx]

My guild's logs are private so I can't link them directly, best I can do is show screenshots. These are all the longest attempts made.

Krosus 3:02 - Chaos Blades/Nemesis


High Botanist Tel'arn 3:24 - Chaos Cleave/Bloodlet/Nemesis/Fel Barrage (full pad spec)


Star Augur Estraeus 3:01 - Fel Mastery/Prepared/Momentum/Chaos Blades


Take the warlock's damage with a grain of salt, it's a bugged artifact ability.

[Deleted]

My guild's logs are private so I can't link them directly, best I can do is show screenshots. These are all the longest attempts made.

Krosus 3:02 - Chaos Blades/Nemesis


High Botanist Tel'arn 3:24 - Chaos Cleave/Bloodlet/Nemesis/Fel Barrage (full pad spec)


Star Augur Estraeus 3:01 - Fel Mastery/Prepared/Momentum/Chaos Blades


Take the warlock's damage with a grain of salt, it's a bugged artifact ability.

You took the momentum build in the augur fight ?I'd like to see the momentum uptime and melee range uptime on that , cause i found it be very difficult to not blow up the raid, while still maintaining high momentum uptime and not miss a GCD while VR'ing away from the target cause the hitbox is so small.

[Sarkol]

Ok, well how about you show come logs of dps comparrisons between the build you think is dead, and the others? You asked proof for us, how about you back up your claim too.

I suggest you learn to read. He didn't say Momentum was dead at all. He said the idea of it being the ONLY spec, is dead.

[Tato23]

I suggest you learn to read. He didn't say Momentum was dead at all. He said the idea of it being the ONLY spec, is dead.

post number 57 in this thread and i quote "Momentum/Demonic builds are dead" Very first thing he said...I think you need to read through the thread first bud before saying anything lol.

[Sarkol]

post number 57 in this thread and i quote "Momentum/Demonic builds are dead" Very first thing he said...I think you need to read through the thread first bud before saying anything lol.

The most recent post from him said otherwise.

[Tato23]

The most recent post from him said otherwise.

Lol people change what they say when a lot of people jump on them.

[ujx]

You took the momentum build in the augur fight ?I'd like to see the momentum uptime and melee range uptime on that , cause i found it be very difficult to not blow up the raid, while still maintaining high momentum uptime and not miss a GCD while VR'ing away from the target cause the hitbox is so small.

I went with momentum because of all the dashing around I was doing trying to clear my sign, bringing the ice debuff out, dashing in and out for fel nova, and for burst on the adds in the final phase. I think nemesis would have been the obvious single target winner, I was just experimenting with builds and this happen to be our longest attempt.

My uptime was 30.80%. Could be a lot better if I didn't play conservatively with dash during sign phase or if I had weakauras set up to monitor my cooldowns better.

[videnfost]

If you want to try to pretend you're better than everyone else, fuck off to talk to a mirror.

Wait. Like you?