Wow Legion : PvP Everyone is Everyone

[artline]

Hello, i'm the only one that feels that the PVP feeling from legion will be empty?
Since i can work very hard to get a good gear for my character, play hours for days and my friend who just get until level 110 will have almost the same power as me?

How empty has become the part of being a bit different in the game?
- Your items dont matter.
- Your Talents dont matter (since i can change then anytime i want how much i want for free).
- Your Specialization dont matter (since i can change it also anytime).

So whats matter in PVP? Get PVP talents to reset?
No more wow feeling like: "look this is my strong rogue", now is jsut "look this is my 'just get level 110 rogue' ".
I'm not talking about grinding gears, but i believe iLVL scaling could work better. Blizzard is just putting everyone in the same bag and throwing in the river.
Imagine you raiding with the same stats just 0.1% calculated by ur iLVL? Would be cool?

Good times when you had to plan your to make a build, calculate the best choices, work hard to be a champion!
We live in the years of no effort, everything on your hands.
I believe they are driving WoW into the same role as Diablo went( and its not a good place for a game, diablo mechanics is terrible nowdays)...

[Deleted]

Hello, i'm the only one that feels that the PVP feeling from legion will be empty?
Since i can work very hard to get a good gear for my character, play hours for days and my friend who just get until level 110 will have almost the same power as me?

How empty has become the part of being a bit different in the game?
- Your items dont matter.
- Your Talents dont matter (since i can change then anytime i want how much i want for free).
- Your Specialization dont matter (since i can change it also anytime).

So whats matter in PVP? Get PVP talents to reset?
No more wow feeling like: "look this is my strong rogue", now is jsut "look this is my 'just get level 110 rogue' ".
I'm not talking about grinding gears, but i believe iLVL scaling could work better. Blizzard is just putting everyone in the same bag and throwing in the river.
Imagine you raiding with the same stats just 0.1% calculated by ur iLVL? Would be cool?

Good times when you had to plan your to make a build, calculate the best choices, work hard to be a champion!
We live in the years of no effort, everything on your hands.
I believe they are driving WoW into the same role as Diablo went( and its not a good place for a game, diablo mechanics is terrible nowdays)...

i agree, its boring and i dont like the changes either

[Eon Drache]

Wait, it's been this way for a while, right? Elite gear is only cosmetic atm right? And you can get like 20k Conq in a day mid season if you got a buddy that can run you through some 2v2. Gear hasn't really mattered for a while. Anyone and their grandma can catch up to you no matter how late in the season they started in just a few hours depending how late into the season it actually is.

[Syri79]

I for one am glad of the change, if it works out. PvP is about who is the best player, not who spammed BGs the longest and picked up the most gear. There will still be some effect from gear, just not as much, and there's also separate pvp talents now, so hopefully they'll help give a bit of variation to things, but it will be nice to know that you were defeated because the others played better, rather than just got better gear because they play longer.

[TwoNineMarine]

Frankly I'm going to be more inclined to PvP now with the new Prestige type system. Especially if the rewards for prestiging stay really cool.

[Allenschezar]

It's all about titles and stuff. But it's for the sake of balance. Now it doesn't matter how long one played. All players are equal. And i think that's how it's supposed to be. Now only skill counts and i can't see why that's supposed to be a bad thing?

And if you want to show off how good you are you can do that by reseting the talents for cosmetic rewards / titles.

[Thelxi]

I totally agree. This standard template thing is perfect for arenas (it would be more perfect if ilvl also did not affect stats in any way), but it sucks the fun out of unrated pvp in any form. At least for me. I really don't see the point in BGs like this. Adding to that the pvp talents that completely change the way your character plays whenever zoning in to a pvp zone.. it just feels artificial and pointless. To me.

They should have stuck to arenas with these changes.

[Deleted]

The only people that are going to complain are the people that can't play on fair grounds. You can still go ganking to get your fix of uberness.

[Jotaux]

The only people that are going to complain are the people that can't play on fair grounds. You can still go ganking to get your fix of uberness.

I do a lot of 3s right now for the 100 wins mount. Everyone is fully geared up. I'm not looking forward to the changes at all. I'll have 2 saddles just sitting there for when the new mounts come out so I don't think I'll pvp much at all in legion.

[Mawnix]

I'm way more inclined to PVP now. Sorry you're upset with it.

[ItachiZaku]

My issue is that we still can't level as heals, and I do a lot of PVP while I'm leveling, but also want to quest and do non-PVP things.

[Deleted]

Hello, i'm the only one that feels that the PVP feeling from legion will be empty?
Since i can work very hard to get a good gear for my character, play hours for days and my friend who just get until level 110 will have almost the same power as me?

How empty has become the part of being a bit different in the game?
- Your items dont matter.
- Your Talents dont matter (since i can change then anytime i want how much i want for free).
- Your Specialization dont matter (since i can change it also anytime).

So whats matter in PVP? Get PVP talents to reset?
No more wow feeling like: "look this is my strong rogue", now is jsut "look this is my 'just get level 110 rogue' ".
I'm not talking about grinding gears, but i believe iLVL scaling could work better. Blizzard is just putting everyone in the same bag and throwing in the river.
Imagine you raiding with the same stats just 0.1% calculated by ur iLVL? Would be cool?

Good times when you had to plan your to make a build, calculate the best choices, work hard to be a champion!
We live in the years of no effort, everything on your hands.
I believe they are driving WoW into the same role as Diablo went( and its not a good place for a game, diablo mechanics is terrible nowdays)...

When you are playing against the computer, the entertainment value drops pretty quickly when you don't have character progression. I don't think anyone kept doing Challenge Mode dungeons for fun after they got what they needed from it, because getting scaled down wasn't fun, and there was no real challenge once you beat it once (Unless with a different group or class perhaps).

When you PvP, you are playing against other players. In that situation, skill should be the deciding factor when it comes to who wins and who loses, and gear shouldn't give you huge advantages. And besides, if you want to PvP, you could get geared very quickly anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

My issue is that we still can't level as heals, and I do a lot of PVP while I'm leveling, but also want to quest and do non-PVP things.

You can easily lvl as a healer in Legion. Won't be as fast, but it isn't nearly as bad as it has been before.

[Mad_Murdock]

I think people watch Switfty's fighting naked video and feel like it makes the PvP a joke. I can semi understand the feeling, how would raiders feel if they could enter raid encounters naked and do the same damage.

With that said, I've never cared for most MMO's PvP, when gear is a big part of the experience. For PvP, I prefer games like Battlefield, where regardless of how many unlocks a person has, it mostly boils down to who has the better aim\reflexes. Games like The Division failed hard in this regard, because their PvP could pit you up against someone that would be near impossible to kill or the flip side, their ability to kill you was very easy.

At a minimum it's a very interesting change and will be interesting to see how it helps or hurts PvP in general.

[dippinsawse]

Wait, it's been this way for a while, right? Elite gear is only cosmetic atm right? And you can get like 20k Conq in a day mid season if you got a buddy that can run you through some 2v2. Gear hasn't really mattered for a while. Anyone and their grandma can catch up to you no matter how late in the season they started in just a few hours depending how late into the season it actually is.

If you only look at it from your perspective it is like that, but PvP is more than just 3v3 for a lot of people in this game. A lot of people still PvP casually. In casual PvP there is maybe like 10% of people with full gear.

You may think that is dumb for a competitive mode but that is something MMO's are built on--Getting stronger the more you invest in your character. It makes sense that someone would want their character to be stronger if they put a lot of work into them. There is also the idea of skill that you will develop from playing that character, but skill can't account for being full geared and 2-shotting a fresh 100. Skill isn't what let me chaos bolt a DK for 425k last week and I will miss those moments.

That said, having gear requirements in PvP isn't all good. It is competitive so of course it should be as balanced as possible. Gear shouldn't matter, skill should. It also serves as a barrier to entry for a lot of people because it is frustrating to be the guy with no gear getting destroyed just so you can get items to play on equal footing. A lot of people don't pvp for that very reason.

This is the problem. I think both sides have valid points and there isn't really a correct answer. There is no compromise to satisfy that MMO feeling of your character getting stronger with time while also making it balanced and less frustrating for those that aren't as geared.

[zeropeorth]

My issue is that we still can't level as heals, and I do a lot of PVP while I'm leveling, but also want to quest and do non-PVP things.

Rather certain I recall blue saying heals should be better than ever at leveling this xpac. The changes are well needed; pvp should be on a level ground as far as stats; skill and experience trumps all. Experienced players will still stomp new players but the new players will have more of a chance to learn and improve from encounters instead of being wiped out with no hope of improving. It provides a balance without making skill useless. Those upset at this probably are afraid their skill and experience can't carry them and prefer the gear advantage to feel better about themselves.

[Allenschezar]

I do a lot of 3s right now for the 100 wins mount. Everyone is fully geared up. I'm not looking forward to the changes at all. I'll have 2 saddles just sitting there for when the new mounts come out so I don't think I'll pvp much at all in legion.

what exactly don't you like about it? In terms of the situation your describing there isn't really a difference is there? It's just instead everyone is "fully geared up" it's everyone has all their talents unlocked.

[artline]

Is the world fair? Anywhere?

So I believe raiding would be fair too, just give ppl the same ILVL to raid, no more work to get items.

[Allenschezar]

My issue is that we still can't level as heals, and I do a lot of PVP while I'm leveling, but also want to quest and do non-PVP things.

That's not true. I play Beta and lvled as Holy Priest and Holy Paladin so far and it was no problem at all. Quite the opposite it was really fun. A friend of mine lvled as a Fury Warrior at the same time and we hit 110 with about 1 hour difference. (he was a little bit faster as he was DPS but 1hour is not really much)

[artline]

I think people watch Switfty's fighting naked video and feel like it makes the PvP a joke. I can semi understand the feeling, how would raiders feel if they could enter raid encounters naked and do the same damage.

With that said, I've never cared for most MMO's PvP, when gear is a big part of the experience. For PvP, I prefer games like Battlefield, where regardless of how many unlocks a person has, it mostly boils down to who has the better aim\reflexes. Games like The Division failed hard in this regard, because their PvP could pit you up against someone that would be near impossible to kill or the flip side, their ability to kill you was very easy.

At a minimum it's a very interesting change and will be interesting to see how it helps or hurts PvP in general.

The problem is that you are no one man, your work gives nothing you will not be stronger or anything... Imagine raiding, get more items for nothing?
I dont know even why blizzard call this thing "talents" cuz talents is something you born with, your character in WoW talents is just senseless, you can modify it anytime anywhere for 0 cost.

Blizzard should then makou be model classes for everyone raid, pvp, world questing.. You just buy the game and work for Titles, Mounts and Achives... Maybe they are forgeting the main part of the game the "character" is what the players control and what they work to improve, anything else is just a coadjuvant where the main actor(characters) be in. They are making your actor be a Mr Mime.

[Jotaux]

what exactly don't you like about it? In terms of the situation your describing there isn't really a difference is there? It's just instead everyone is "fully geared up" it's everyone has all their talents unlocked.

I like progressing on the character, starting a new one, gearing that up, etc. I like being able to have choices in gear. In Legion how different is stacking mastery over haste going to be when its worth .1%? My priest doesn't even use the PVP rings currently because the crafted ones give more versatility. That choice is meaningless in legion. I also hate being powered down. Its why I don't bother with challenge modes once I get gold. I would be fine with silver just because I just want the mounts and don't care for the transmog pieces but the people I ran with wanted the transmog too and gold was easy.