1. #3341
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    You can get by though; Fighter Chow helps.
    Nah, DW crusader and a darkmoon card heroism will fix everything

  2. #3342
    Quote Originally Posted by CSINada View Post
    Seems like with current balancing fury wont be first arficact to level up for a mythic raider? I am reading all over that arms with FR is just much better or i got something wrong?

    Also will it stay as it is, for cleave / ST = arms and for burst aoe = fury ? I am sorry for only questions but i didnt have time to test it in beta and i am totally green about legion warrior
    There's still a lot of balancing to be done, I wouldn't worry about this question quite yet

  3. #3343
    Live i have 264k hp, ptr i have 309k hp so yeah it is a bit more than that but not enough to offset the increased damage taken and lack of defensive cool downs.

  4. #3344
    Mythic raid damage will be the only thing that might be a problem, and maybe certain levels of Mythic+ dungeons. It's really not that bad for anything else. I leveled using the boosted template, I never felt like I was struggling to maintain. Enraged Regen I often used just to fill me back up if I had happened to get grinded down low a bit. In dungeons I actually find Bloodthirst healing to be quite good in relation to dungeon damage levels, as I mentioned this might change at Mythic+ dungeons.

    To be clear, I still think it's a really stupid idea, but it's not as big a deal as people are making it out to be. Especially when it concerns leveling or normal/heroic dungeons. I'd say the jury is still very much out when it comes to mythic raiding though.

  5. #3345
    I really dont want to have to swap to arms for anything, hopefully they make it so fury is good in St and aoe/cleave situations.

  6. #3346
    What is this downtime people speak of? I started with a fresh 680 premade and didn't use not 1 of those 200 cinnabuns in my bag all the way through to 110. Furious charge, BT and ER was all I needed to stay topped or <75%. It will be even easier for people charging into Legion with 745+ ilvl and mowing everything.

  7. #3347
    Quote Originally Posted by Artunias View Post
    Mythic raid damage will be the only thing that might be a problem, and maybe certain levels of Mythic+ dungeons. It's really not that bad for anything else. I leveled using the boosted template, I never felt like I was struggling to maintain. Enraged Regen I often used just to fill me back up if I had happened to get grinded down low a bit. In dungeons I actually find Bloodthirst healing to be quite good in relation to dungeon damage levels, as I mentioned this might change at Mythic+ dungeons.

    To be clear, I still think it's a really stupid idea, but it's not as big a deal as people are making it out to be. Especially when it concerns leveling or normal/heroic dungeons. I'd say the jury is still very much out when it comes to mythic raiding though.
    My concern is that you see it as not as big a deal as people are making it out to be, but you're also a top tier player who understands all the nuts and bolts of the game/class. How will someone who doesn't visit MMO-C or AMR or Icy-veins feel when they take more damage during Enrage? Will they understand how it all shakes out? Or will they feel weaker? And what about Mr. Doesn't-know-how-other-classes-work-raid-leader who sees Fury warriors take more damage, so decides they shouldn't be in his raid? That will extend to some guild raid leaders as well. At the end of the day, even if it isn't as bad as it seems, that's about the falsest praise one can give about anything (and yes, i know you're against the mechanic, just sayin').

  8. #3348
    Quote Originally Posted by Murlocbait View Post
    My concern is that you see it as not as big a deal as people are making it out to be, but you're also a top tier player who understands all the nuts and bolts of the game/class. How will someone who doesn't visit MMO-C or AMR or Icy-veins feel when they take more damage during Enrage? Will they understand how it all shakes out? Or will they feel weaker? And what about Mr. Doesn't-know-how-other-classes-work-raid-leader who sees Fury warriors take more damage, so decides they shouldn't be in his raid? That will extend to some guild raid leaders as well. At the end of the day, even if it isn't as bad as it seems, that's about the falsest praise one can give about anything (and yes, i know you're against the mechanic, just sayin').
    O, for sure. It causes tons of problems with perception among your average playerbase. Which really should be enough of a reason why it's a horrible idea.

  9. #3349
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenstate View Post
    What is this downtime people speak of? I started with a fresh 680 premade and didn't use not 1 of those 200 cinnabuns in my bag all the way through to 110. Furious charge, BT and ER was all I needed to stay topped or <75%. It will be even easier for people charging into Legion with 745+ ilvl and mowing everything.
    Depends on how you approach combat. If you continually try to gather up and AoE down everything in the vicinity, Fury will start to struggle quickly. If you approach targets one or two at a time, and only deal with groups with full CDs, Fury is fine.

  10. #3350
    The only struggles I really recall while leveling as Fury from the 680 template where the early parts of the Artifact quest line (couple of months ago now...). I just had to eat after fighting 2 or more at once. This probably had more to do with crap starter gear, and my first time getting use to the spec re-design. Either way, it wasn't really a big deal.

    Fury is (and will be...) perfectly 'viable' for leveling. Don't feel like you need to level as Arms, then switch to Fury for end-game. Furious Charge talent is great for leveling and world questing. 20% HP heal after every charge (especially when paired with double time) will keep you going quite easily.

    ---

    I agree that 30% extra damage taken is really only going to be a (potentially) problem at high-end play, where near-one-shot damage sources are a larger concern.

  11. #3351
    Quote Originally Posted by Artunias View Post
    O, for sure. It causes tons of problems with perception among your average playerbase. Which really should be enough of a reason why it's a horrible idea.
    Which was my justification when the concept was first unveiled. It'll be balanced around, so it's not the loss people think it is, but the simple fact of stupid people interpreting it is going to give it (and Fury) a bad wrap.

    They make all these strides to simplify the game for stupid people, like hiding basic UI elements, and then add crap like this, which is clearly going to confuse people.

  12. #3352
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    Isnt that basically what Blizzard does, though?
    They make cool promises and explanations, then more often than not - they end up having mechanics going completely against their own words?

  13. #3353
    Scarab Lord Master Guns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangman View Post
    Isnt that basically what Blizzard does, though?
    They make cool promises and explanations, then more often than not - they end up having mechanics going completely against their own words?
    Not always. They do sometimes, yeah. Just like every developer. People just like to generalize and scrutinize.

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  14. #3354
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    I personally don't understand this whole class hall thing as a whole. I've never cared for housing and whatnot. I do agree with the point which claims that we have quite literally 0 known Warriors in our class hall and we are someones.... Complete that sentence yourselves!

    The story truly makes no sense, but my question still is do you REALLY care? I did for all of 5 seconds (Not saying everyone should be like me, I understand the issues) but at the end of the day its a tiny part of the game.

    Demon Hunters have the same in Aszuna, they treat you as a nobody even though you are the Commander.

  15. #3355
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangman View Post
    Isnt that basically what Blizzard does, though?
    They make cool promises and explanations, then more often than not - they end up having mechanics going completely against their own words?
    That's kind of design in a nutshell. You just can't do everything you want or you'd never stop designing and finally publish a product.

    Don't fool yourselves, they don't have easy jobs; especially with the million screaming fans all clamoring for what they want in particular rather than what is necessarily good, bad, or even feasible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangman View Post
    I personally don't understand this whole class hall thing as a whole. I've never cared for housing and whatnot. I do agree with the point which claims that we have quite literally 0 known Warriors in our class hall and we are someones.... Complete that sentence yourselves!

    The story truly makes no sense, but my question still is do you REALLY care? I did for all of 5 seconds (Not saying everyone should be like me, I understand the issues) but at the end of the day its a tiny part of the game.
    A big part of what draws people into a game, especially one that's been going for over a decade is the story. I daresay that storytelling has been one of Blizzards most notable features since its inception as a company, (as well as the "polish" they put on games, though that's much younger), and I'd continue to say that I think the continuing story of warcraft is what drew a large portion of the player base into WoW to begin with.

    Now, whether or not an individual is invested in the story is a different story altogether. Some players don't, and that's fine, but the question I want to ask is this:
    If the story doesn't matter to you, does that excuse poor storytelling for the players who do care?

    Put another way; if you don't care about the story, you won't care whether it's good or bad. It simply doesn't affect you. On the other hand, it greatly affects a player who does care about the story. Now look at it from another perspective: if you care about PvP (or raiding), bad PvP (or raid) balancing will have a great effect on your enjoyment of the game; regardless of how good the story is. This is also why different people typically work on different parts of the game.

    Demon Hunters have the same in Aszuna, they treat you as a nobody even though you are the Commander.
    Yes and no. The key difference is that it doesn't affect the story either way. While it might be thematic if they addressed you as their leader or whatever, it would require unique text for DH players as opposed to every other class, which just isn't worth the effort, and it has no bearing on the way the story plays out.

    Big difference with Warriors in Stormheim though. There they're actively making you do things which wouldn't happen if they recognized you had already been to the Halls of Valor/received Odyn's blessing, and so you end up doing a lot of stuff that, story wise, doesn't make sense.

    Again, obviously it's unrealistic to expect them to have some sort of check which changes everything for Warrior players, but that's where the disconnect occurs, and it should have been taken into account from the beginning. If I had to guess, I'd say that the Warrior Class Hall was probably done later in the design process, after the quest writing was done, which is why the disconnect occurred and it was obviously to late to go back and either redo that zone or completely change the class hall, leaving us stuck in limbo. Either way, why it happened isn't really important, the fact of the matter is that it did happen, and it leaves Warriors in a really poor place, with a bunch of story that A) doesn't apply to their class, and B) doesn't even fit properly into the game experience.

    Of course, having played through the entire beta, I can also say that Vrykul are pretty superfluous altogether. They flat out don't exist outside of Stormheim, and none of their story has anything to do with the greater Broken Isles/Suramar/raids/etc. Going to be interesting to see if they flesh it out a little bit more, maybe adding some more Titan story in an Ulduar style patch, but right now they're pretty isolated.

  16. #3356
    I leveled like two weeks ago? Something like that, and while not always there definitely some quest dialogue/text differences since I was a warrior. Helya referenced our encounter to obtain the swords. A couple of other quests were like "ah, Odyn's Champion himself" and various things along those lines.

    While there is still some disconnect, I appreciated the small effort.

  17. #3357
    Started playing the Beta again today (stopped at end of alpha) now that char copy is up. Sockets are worth 200stats now, what is this madness? Also my character feels really weak even at 745 gear when doing the artifact quest, Bladestorm hits like a soggy biscuit. I was expecting to just be able to go balls deep and mass pulling everything, but it's quite the contrary to that and I managed to get myself killed.

    Had to level a DH first so my Warrior could skip the broken broken shore scenario, impossible to gauge any comparisons between classes though so I have no idea how the overall balance looks or where Warriors sit but I'd imagine Blizzard need to rebalance the artifact quest line for players using ilvl680 gear, as it's quite brutal tuning wise for what is meant to be an introduction.

    Also wtf is up with the voice acting of the Vikings, absolutely mental.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  18. #3358
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Started playing the Beta again today (stopped at end of alpha) now that char copy is up. Sockets are worth 200stats now, what is this madness? Also my character feels really weak even at 745 gear when doing the artifact quest, Bladestorm hits like a soggy biscuit. I was expecting to just be able to go balls deep and mass pulling everything, but it's quite the contrary to that and I managed to get myself killed.

    Had to level a DH first so my Warrior could skip the broken broken shore scenario, impossible to gauge any comparisons between classes though so I have no idea how the overall balance looks or where Warriors sit but I'd imagine Blizzard need to rebalance the artifact quest line for players using ilvl680 gear, as it's quite brutal tuning wise for what is meant to be an introduction.

    Also wtf is up with the voice acting of the Vikings, absolutely mental.
    if with 680 gear is a pain, imagine with 595 from fresh warriors

  19. #3359
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Started playing the Beta again today (stopped at end of alpha) now that char copy is up. Sockets are worth 200stats now, what is this madness? Also my character feels really weak even at 745 gear when doing the artifact quest, Bladestorm hits like a soggy biscuit. I was expecting to just be able to go balls deep and mass pulling everything, but it's quite the contrary to that and I managed to get myself killed.

    Had to level a DH first so my Warrior could skip the broken broken shore scenario, impossible to gauge any comparisons between classes though so I have no idea how the overall balance looks or where Warriors sit but I'd imagine Blizzard need to rebalance the artifact quest line for players using ilvl680 gear, as it's quite brutal tuning wise for what is meant to be an introduction.

    Also wtf is up with the voice acting of the Vikings, absolutely mental.
    I've heard that the Artifact lines and a few other big story moments scale with ilvl, rather than character level.

  20. #3360
    I've done some further testing on the PTR @ L100, ilvl700 looking at 2-target cleave and found this talent setup to give me the best results:
    ER > DT > WB > FC > Car > Frenzy > DR.

    Tried Bladestorm, but for 2 targets DR seemed consistently better. Inner Rage, same thing. As it doesn't cleave it was best to take Frenzy and ignore RB, plus more haste = faster returns to Rampage which did cleave. Also Wrecking Ball proc'd too often on all the tests to make Avatar useful.

    It's not the appropriate forum, but, I tested this against Arms and could not get Arms 2-target cleave to be superior to Fury's. However, I believe a lot of this had to do with the fact that Sweeping Strikes seems to have a coat of paint's range and I could not successfully cleave any target dummies with it regardless of where I stood. I'm hoping it's a bug, or just needs a range adjustment. Otherwise SS seems near useless unless mobs are right on top of each other.

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