I KNEW the movie would flop

[randomnamegenerator16]

This americentrism is funny.

[Ragedaug]

Every single video game adaptation up to Warcraft has had its success measured by the domestic box office cume. When you use the same metric to measure this film's "success," it's anything but. Then you add onto that the fact that 2nd week performance in China was down nearly 80% and it begins to paint a picture that this film's "success" as described by this clickbait-titled IGN article isn't quite as self-evident.

But hey, go ahead and drink the Kool-Aid. I wanted the film to be successful but I'm not so blinded by my desire for it that I purposefully ignore very strong indicators that the film was not nearly as successful as it could have been. Or as successful as IGN articles written by the Buzzfeed staff would mistakenly lead you to believe.

meh...

I didn't care if the movie was successful or not. I only cared that I enjoyed it. And I did. After I watched it, I thought, "I would really like seeing another sequel or two", and based on what I'm seeing and the money they have made (I don't understand why I have to clarify that "all the money it made" includes all the money it made...but yeah, I'm including all the money it made, not just what it earned in the US) I would be highly surprised if they don't make another one.

...and I'm hoping I enjoy that one too.

Also, considering movies are seen globally, and make money globally, why would we measure success by how it does one country. Please explain why that makes sense. For that matter, why not judge all video game adaptations by how well they do in Sweden or South Korea or some other random country? I guess I'm just not sure why we should only concern ourselves with how well it sells in the US.

[Vitrino]

Yup! I kinda picked it apart after seeing it. My sister who doesn't play and the only thing she knows about Warcraft is it's a game that I play loved it. I mean I loved it too and will see it a few more times and then buy the Bluray but she liked it enough to see it again.

My first impression were the same as yours. But it gets better with subsequent watches. For the second watch I just kept track of the actual movie story instead of trying to match it with the original lore.And it worked and I got a much better experience.

[Jibjub]

Everyone is an expert!

All we have are ticket sales. We have NO CLUE how much merchandise this has sold. We don't know if this will generate more subs for the game. We haveno idea what kind of back-end deals there were [allegedly Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix grossed over 900MM and end up losing 160-ishMM]. We have no idea how much more it will make in its theatrical run (likely not much more), and we have no idea what DVD/Bluray sales will look like [some studies show that usually half of sales are made by DVD sales, because studios get to keep more of that money]. We have no idea what the marketing budget was [the Hollywood rule of thumb is half the production budget on marketing ... so that would be 80MM ... bringing the total to 240MM] ...

Overseas markets are tricky, because studios don't keep all that money ... but keep in mind that marketing movies in China is WAY cheaper than in the US. One of the reasons Legendary went so hard after China. Brilliant, really. For example, Trasnformers, Age of Extinction, made 300 million in China and only spent somewhere between 3 and 5 million to market it there. While spending over 100 million in the US.

Let's just all take deep breaths and wait to hear if a sequel is happening. If you liked the movie, who cares what anyone else thinks. If you hated the movie, who cares what anyone else thinks. If you need others to validate your own thoughts and opinions, seek help.

[Ragedaug]

Let's just all take deep breaths and wait to hear if a sequel is happening. If you liked the movie, who cares what anyone else thinks. If you hated the movie, who cares what anyone else thinks. If you need others to validate your own thoughts and opinions, seek help.

What if we just want others to validate our thoughts and opinions, but don't actually need it. Is that OK? Also, seems like forums would lose much of their usefulness if not for folks looking for a little validation, no?

[Huehuecoyotl]

hahahahaha.....


sorry, I guess I could have just wrote "lol" but I really dislike that trope.

Yeah, so I guess I'm not sure if you are trying to say that this thread is the definitive authority on movie finances...'cause it kinda sounds like that's what you are saying, or rather what the other dude is saying and you are explaining.

Do I take the specific numbers being quoted as gospel? Of course not, but the people that are saying "this is roughly what it needs to break even" are all making it pretty clear that everything is based on estimates and industry standards. But regardless of what the exact numbers are, the two indisputable facts are a) not all of the money that the film makes worldwide go to the people that made the film and b) marketing costs money.

Both of those facts lead to the conclusion that the film will need to gross more than it cost to make in order to be profitable. The exact number is up for debate, but the sources that have a better idea than me about this seem to think the number is around $450-500m. Now even if the film hits that, you are basically saying to someone "give me over $200m, some of it for significant amount of time, and I will add pretty much nothing to it". Which for someone with a large amount of money they want to invest, doesn't sound like the best deal.

All of which has been covered, at length and repeatedly, in this thread. Which you either haven't read, or haven't understood.

[Vitrino]

I guess I'm just not sure why we should only concern ourselves with how well it sells in the US.

I've had already this discussion with him. So I'll answer. It's because studios get around 50% of the box office from the local market while only 25% from the chinese market. (Because of China's protectionist laws. That's for all foreign productions ).
In what we don't get a compromise is in that, with Legendary being a chinese company nowadays, China's laws apply to this movie as a foreign or as a local one.
I must admit I don't know the answer.

PD: I loved the movie and I absolutely want them to establish a profitable franchise.

[Relapses]

Also, considering movies are seen globally, and make money globally, why would we measure success by how it does one country. Please explain why that makes sense. For that matter, why not judge all video game adaptations by how well they do in Sweden or South Korea or some other random country? I guess I'm just not sure why we should only concern ourselves with how well it sells in the US.

Because sensationalist article titles like "#1 BEST PERFORMING VIDEO GAME MOVIE OF ALL TIME" aren't painting an accurate picture when every other video game adaptation film up to this point has performed rather dismally in domestic markets and this film has not been an exception. There's a major asterisk with this film's performance and I don't think it should be glossed over to come to a conclusion that a sequel is all but guaranteed.

I think it's the kind of wishful thinking which fans often indulge that leads to outrage and disgust from them when the reality of the situation -- that a sequel isn't nearly as likely -- comes to light. Don't get me wrong, I'd be just as happy as many other posters here if a Warcraft universe of films were to be born from this movie. At this point, however, the pragmatic realist part of me cannot buy into the hype.

[Jibjub]

What if we just want others to validate our thoughts and opinions, but don't actually need it. Is that OK? Also, seems like forums would lose much of their usefulness if not for folks looking for a little validation, no?

That's allowed. But that would be a discussion and not an argument. I know -- radical thinking -- but I dream of a day it can happen.

[Ragedaug]

Do I take the specific numbers being quoted as gospel? Of course not, but the people that are saying "this is roughly what it needs to break even" are all making it pretty clear that everything is based on estimates and industry standards. But regardless of what the exact numbers are, the two indisputable facts are a) not all of the money that the film makes worldwide go to the people that made the film and b) marketing costs money.

Both of those facts lead to the conclusion that the film will need to gross more than it cost to make in order to be profitable. The exact number is up for debate, but the sources that have a better idea than me about this seem to think the number is around $450-500m. Now even if the film hits that, you are basically saying to someone "give me over $200m, some of it for significant amount of time, and I will add pretty much nothing to it". Which for someone with a large amount of money they want to invest, doesn't sound like the best deal.

All of which has been covered, at length and repeatedly, in this thread. Which you either haven't read, or haven't understood.

Dude, it's only been 10 days, and it's 84% of the way to breaking even. I think you'll be OK and won't have to lose any more sleep over the movie not doing well. I'm guessing the producers are happy with how well it's going, so we don't have to worry for them.

[Jibjub]

Because sensationalist titles like "#1 BEST PERFORMING VIDEO GAME MOVIE OF ALL TIME" aren't painting an accurate picture when every other video game up to this point has performed rather dismally in domestic markets and this film has not been an exception. There's a major asterisk with this film's performance and I don't think it should be glossed over to come to a conclusion that a sequel is all but guaranteed.

I think it's the kind of wishful thinking which fans often indulge that leads to outrage and disgust from them when the reality of the situation -- that a sequel isn't nearly as likely -- comes to light. Don't get me wrong -- I'd be just as happy as many other posters here if a Warcraft universe of films were to be born from this movie but the pragmatic realist part of me cannot buy into the hype at this point.

Movie Studio Executive: "What is all this yen or dinero coming from China? Can we even use this? No. It's so colorful. Let's just burn it."

I don't think studios care as much about WHERE money comes from as much as you think they do. I agree we need to cool it and just wait and see before thumping our chests one or the other, but the fact remains: this movie has grossed more money than any other video game adaptation. That's a low bar, sure, but it's something. If critics hadn't bashed it, it would have done way better ... and who knows, maybe DVD sales will soar.

[Ragedaug]

Because sensationalist titles like "#1 BEST PERFORMING VIDEO GAME MOVIE OF ALL TIME" aren't painting an accurate picture when every other video game up to this point has performed rather dismally in domestic markets and this film has not been an exception. There's a major asterisk with this film's performance and I don't think it should be glossed over to come to a conclusion that a sequel is all but guaranteed.

I think it's the kind of wishful thinking which fans often indulge that leads to outrage and disgust from them when the reality of the situation -- that a sequel isn't nearly as likely -- comes to light. Don't get me wrong -- I'd be just as happy as many other posters here if a Warcraft universe of films were to be born from this movie but the pragmatic realist part of me cannot buy into the hype at this point.

"#1 BEST PERFORMING VIDEO GAME MOVIE OF ALL TIME" is accurate, sooooo....I'm really not sure what you are getting at.

Is it the #1 movie for Tuesday night sales in a Leap Year but only in countries with a population over 30 Million? I dunno, nor do I care. Is it the #1 movie in the US? I do know this one and the answer is no, but I still don't care. You haven't explained to me why it should be important to me that it does good only in the US.

[Turtlewithnoshell]

Just let them all be "too cool".

[Relapses]

Movie Studio Executive: "What is all this yen or dinero coming from China? Can we even use this? No. It's so colorful. Let's just burn it."

I don't think studios care as much about WHERE money comes from as much as you think they do. I agree we need to cool it and just wait and see before thumping our chests one or the other, but the fact remains: this movie has grossed more money than any other video game adaptation. That's a low bar, sure, but it's something. If critics hadn't bashed it, it would have done way better ... and who knows, maybe DVD sales will soar.

That's not exactly what I'm getting at. I understand money is money and I'm honestly not trying to downplay the film's performance in foreign markets. Yes, it matters and no the article title isn't completely inaccurate. But I don't feel we should forgo critical thinking about this film's stellar performance being almost exclusively in foreign markets and how this fact fundamentally changes the way we, as fans, should view such a success.

[Zaqwert]

I have read several articles predicting a sequel solely as a Chinese release, which given the numbers would make sense.

I'm sure it'd get like a DVD release in the states.

[Ragedaug]

If critics hadn't bashed it, it would have done way better ... and who knows, maybe DVD sales will soar.

I do think there is some validity to this, not to mention their is still a stigma attached to enjoying RPGs, which this movie will be associated to regardless of the fact that it's based off an RTS game. But seeing how credence American culture gives to critic reviews, I think this hurt the movie.

Otherwise I don't know when I've seen as big of a disparity between critic reviews (TOMATOMETER) and audience reviews. There's a 50+ point difference, and it was bigger last weekend. The other funny thing with that is from my experience many critics (not the good ones, but a lot of them) want two things: 1) to be right, and 2) to be witty. So they tend to go overdramatic good or overdramatic bad attempting to guess if the general public will like it. So with this being a Video Game adaptation or a game that is most famous for it's RPG, they guessed it would fail. So critic reviews prior to opening weekend were at 20-23%. Now that the fans have gone to see it and it's over 80% approval, the few critics who were slow to posting have a much more positive outlook than the early reviews and the TOMATOMETER is up to 29%.

[Jibjub]

That's not exactly what I'm getting at. I understand money is money and I'm honestly not trying to downplay the film's performance in foreign markets. Yes, it matters and no the article title isn't completely inaccurate. But I don't feel we should forgo critical thinking about this film's stellar performance being almost exclusively in foreign markets and how this fact fundamentally changes the way we, as fans, should view such a success.

It could be said that Studios might look at it critically and say "a sequel will likely be a hit in China" and what could we do differently, if anything, to make more domestically. A bigger named star, for example, might do the trick. I think it's something that hasn't been mentioned in the domestic performance conversation -- this was a HUGE budget summer release without JJ Abrams or Christopher Nolan or Robert Downy Junior or Will Smith, etc. That's a big deal and, like it or not, those big names sell tickets.

[Ragedaug]

That's not exactly what I'm getting at. I understand money is money and I'm honestly not trying to downplay the film's performance in foreign markets. Yes, it matters and no the article title isn't completely inaccurate. But I don't feel we should forgo critical thinking about this film's stellar performance being almost exclusively in foreign markets and how this fact fundamentally changes the way we, as fans, should view such a success.

What's this got to do with critical thinking?

1) I enjoyed the movie
2) The movie is doing well financially, so it's likely they will make sequels that I enjoy.
3) Why should I care about anything else regarding the statistics of this movie?

[Jibjub]

critics want two things: 1) to be right, and 2) to be witty. So they tend to go overdramatic good or overdramatic bad attempting to guess if the general public will like it.

I couldn't agree more. I would add a #3 ... they are rarely ever qualified to be reviewing films. They haven't directed, produced, or acted in shit (I have directed a low budget indie film ... roughly 200k budget). They are writers who either got an online following by saying ridiculous or entertaining things or they got hired because their friend was an editor at a newspaper :P

They existed when user reviews were impossible to aggregate on a huge scale (pre-internet). They are no longer needed. They should go away.

[Ragedaug]

It could be said that Studios might look at it critically and say "a sequel will likely be a hit in China" and what could we do differently, if anything, to make more domestically. A bigger named star, for example, might do the trick. I think it's something that hasn't been mentioned in the domestic performance conversation -- this was a HUGE budget summer release without JJ Abrams or Christopher Nolan or Robert Downy Junior or Will Smith, etc. That's a big deal and, like it or not, those big names sell tickets.

Considering they draw from the story of War II, we have the potential for a couple box-office-ringers to be cast for key roles:

Uther, Turalyon, Alleria, Danath, and possibly Kurdran.

Not that they couldn't cast a ringer for one of horde, but I suspect short of human form Neltharion, they will be CG and won't have quite the same impact to box office numbers.