Turkey bans Istanbul gay pride due to 'security fears'

[May90]

seems pretty relevant in describing what is irrational and thus a phobia.

Otherwise a dislike of anything is phobic behavior, making the label pretty useless.

No. An irrational behavior may be normal; for example, in Medieval Europe it was normal to hate "infidels", even though the only justification of that hate was "they don't share values of our church". Until just 50-something years ago, it was normal in the US to consider black people inherently inferior to others, based on... who knows, I've never understood that argument.

Normality of behavior is not an indication of its rationality.

[Dreknar20]

Overuse of term doesn't destroy the term.

Really

Cause I would see accusations of homophobia, like being called a Nazi, as a pretty serious accusation.
Yet these days its thrown around liberally to the point where it seems to me more like a personal attack/insult than anything else. Where you could just replace the word with asshole/jackass and it would mean the same thing.

[Dug]

Do you enjoy gay porn?

No I'm not sexual aroused by gay pornography. Kissing =/= innately sexual. But again this is your desperate "gotcha" attempt because you think we're changing definitions when we're using the exact definitions to describe your behavior when you see, you guessed it, two men kiss.

[Kuntantee]

Cause I would see accusations of homophobia, like being called a Nazi, as a pretty serious accusation.

This is true. Being called homophobic wouldn't feel awesome. Although here, in this case, I am giving no flying damn as I am quite confident about my position.

[Dreknar20]

It's not impossible and simply saying "Well that's how I am!" is frankly being weak and throwing in the towel.

funny............didn't people say that about gay people?

[May90]

Really

Cause I would see accusations of homophobia, like being called a Nazi, as a pretty serious accusation.
Yet these days its thrown around liberally to the point where it seems to me more like a personal attack/insult than anything else. Where you could just replace the word with asshole/jackass and it would mean the same thing.

It is not that serious. Being called Nazi is serious, yes, because Nazi is a very narrow and specific term, and just calling someone Nazi because you disagree with them makes you look like a fool. Homophobia is a much wider term; when I call someone a homophobe according to the definition, I do not imply that they are a monster, a beast, a disgusting human being, etc. - no, I'm just talking about his feelings and views on one particular aspect. A person can be a homophobe, for example, and, at the same time, a loving father and a successful mathematician.

[Dug]

funny............didn't people say that about gay people?

Indeed but being homosexual is not irrational. Disliking homosexual people is however

[Dreknar20]

you think we're changing definitions when we're using the exact definitions to describe your behavior when you see, you guessed it, two men kiss.

Seems like a big ass dicrepency here over whats considered irrational/excessive behavior.

[Kuntantee]

No I'm not sexual aroused by gay pornography.

You are a homophobe.

But again this is your desperate "gotcha" attempt because you think we're changing definitions when we're using the exact definitions to describe your behavior when you see, you guessed it, two men kiss.

This is pretty much how some of you argued in this entire discussion. Make up some definition, classify accordingly. I tried several different method of argumentation previously. I argued functionality/purpose of definitions. I argued the interpretation of "dislike" in a definition I stated earlier and finally, I argued whether disliking a particular action constitutes dislike against the whole group or not. You can find those arguments in previous pages. I've put some effort to come up with good arguments.

If there is one who just can't fucking complain about my arguments, it's you. You did nothing other than saying "you are homophobe".

[Dug]

The problem this creates is that you alienate people that do actually support gay rights, but are told they are homophobes.

My brother, and a few other people I know, is uncomfortable when two guys are kissing, but is ok with two girls kissing. He supports gay rights, gay marriage, and DJ's at gay clubs.

He might get more comfortable, he might not... but that is irrelevant to the actual actions he takes. Purity tests have a way of disqualifying people that are not 100% perfect.

To me its encouragement to want to keep bettering yourself and unlearning your prejudices. But of course I do see how being lumped in with the likes of Ted Cruz and his ilk can be alienating

[Dreknar20]

Disliking homosexual people is however

Disliking homosexual people? Or disliking sexual acts you find distasteful?

People cant seem to differentate the two

[Dug]

Disliking homosexual people? Or disliking sexual acts you find distasteful?

People cant seem to differentate the two

You were talking about "gay people" in general. Nothing you said was related to the topic of two men kissing.

[May90]

Disliking homosexual people? Or disliking sexual acts you find distasteful?

People cant seem to differentate the two

But once again, kissing is not a sexual act. Hell, in some cultures (a lot of Middle Eastern ones, for example) men kissing can be an expression of friendship. So I fail to see how it is relevant here.

[Dug]

This is pretty much how some of you argued in this entire discussion. Make up some definition, classify accordingly. I tried several different method of argumentation previously. I argued functionality/purpose of definitions. I argued the interpretation of "dislike" in a definition I stated earlier and finally, I argued whether disliking a particular action constitutes dislike against the whole group or not. You can find those arguments in previous pages. I've put some effort to come up with good arguments.

If there is one who just can't fucking complain about my arguments, it's you. You did nothing other than saying "you are homophobe".

Woosh. Well don't know what to tell you, maybe try reading again if you can't get what I'm really trying to say. Problem is you're trying to argue semantics and I'm saying that your distaste/disgust of seeing two men kiss is irrational, falling into a category of homophobia.

Whether you want to work on that is up to you but hey it's good you're not full on homophobic asshole like some individuals are who are actively trying to strip their rights away. But you should keep trying to improve. A suggestion is all

[Kuntantee]

But once again, kissing is not a sexual act. Hell, in some cultures (a lot of Middle Eastern ones, for example) men kissing can be an expression of friendship. So I fail to see how it is relevant here.

I didn't want topic to converge to this point, but kissing from mouth is globally considered a sexual act. In fact, if it's done before intercourse, it's called foreplay.

[Dreknar20]

You were talking about "gay people" in general. Nothing you said was related to the topic of two men kissing.

pretty sure this whole discussion has revolved around two men kissing.

[Dug]

pretty sure this whole discussion has revolved around two men kissing.

I mean your post in which I replied to. Read it again, has nothing to do with kissing.

- - - Updated - - -

I didn't want topic to converge to this point, but kissing from mouth is globally considered a sexual act. In fact, if it's done before intercourse, it's called foreplay.

Kissing your SO with a quick peck in a crowded super market is a sexual act? Foreplay, even?

[Kuntantee]

Kissing your SO with a quick peck in a crowded super market is a sexual act? Foreplay, even?

It doesn't matter how quick it is. Kissing from mouth is of sexual nature, mostly. I've rarely seen people kiss their father/mother from mouth, it's weird but other than that, it's a sexual act. Why do you kiss your brother/sister/friends from the cheek, and your loved one from the mouth?

[May90]

I didn't want topic to converge to this point, but kissing from mouth is globally considered a sexual act. In fact, if it's done before intercourse, it's called foreplay.

Quick googling didn't confirm your claim. For example:

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/s038.htm

Also, undressing is done before intercourse - and yet undressing before you alone go to sleep is not a sexual act. Nor does kissing from mouth always predate intercourse.

[Kuntantee]

@May90

I can go on, but I won't. I just think discussing what constitutes a sexual act or not is waste of time.