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  1. #861
    Deleted
    BT wasn't late TBC though. Late TBC would be Sunwell, in which shadowbolt spamming destro locks reigned supreme. I also recall hunters being up there.

    EDIT: Looking at SK-gamings first kill, they brought one fire mage.. likely just for intellect and/or imp.scorch debuff (can't recall what version of imp.scorch that was)
    Last edited by mmoc535c769ea1; 2016-06-21 at 07:10 AM. Reason: additonal info

  2. #862
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    Arcane Mage was 3rd in BT, especially if they weren't mentally challenged and realized they had to use a couple spirit gems in their gear for mana regen, only beat by Shadow Sac Destro Lock and Fire Sac Destro Lock. Unless you really want to tie Warglaves into the mix in which case they were 5th being beat by also Combat and Fury Warriors. Then when prepatch hit Fire was top of the pack, beating Warglave Rogues if they were good with procs. The only thing mages complained about in BC was how boring Arcane was and how they wished that Mage was more entertaining to play.
    Mages were so bad in Sunwell that the only use they had for top end raids was having a mage alt in front of the raid buffing them and providing food while the raids took 8 Warlocks and 0 Mages.

  3. #863
    Stood in the Fire UR1L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinoa View Post
    It is looking like Rune of Power will be the go-to talent, yes.
    I don't like Rune but at least it's easy to get the most out of it.

    I'm new to Mage but it seems the way to go is:
    get a Pyro proc then Rune->Combustion->Pyro->PF->Pyro->PF->Pyro->PF->Pyro->IB->Pyro->IB->Pyro(->Flame on+IB->Pyro->IB->Pyro)

    Now that seems like a stupid amount of damage done with only instant casts.

    My biggest problem with it is the way it amps up your damage. During your normal rotation it feels like you're throwing firecrackers. Then you Rune+Combustion and you turn into a 50 megaton hydrogen bomb. Is it fun? Hell yeah. But is it going to get Fire and possibly the whole class nerfed to shit? Possibly. A 50% damage increase for the duration of your cooldown is just begging for balance issues.
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  4. #864
    As far as I know, Rune of Power averages out to about 12.5% of spell power increase over 6 minutes with most of the burst at the start of the fight, but it does come with a short cast time and requires the mage to remain in the buff to get the full benefit.
    Incanter's Flow averages out to be 12% after the first 10 seconds and requires no effort on the mages behalf.

    There will always be a "best" talent, but I think the 2 talents are in a good place to be competitive with each other.

  5. #865
    Quote Originally Posted by pyrostorm9001 View Post
    As far as I know, Rune of Power averages out to about 12.5% of spell power increase over 6 minutes with most of the burst at the start of the fight, but it does come with a short cast time and requires the mage to remain in the buff to get the full benefit.
    Incanter's Flow averages out to be 12% after the first 10 seconds and requires no effort on the mages behalf.

    There will always be a "best" talent, but I think the 2 talents are in a good place to be competitive with each other.
    Which would be fine if dps was constant, but the multiplicative nature of cooldown stacking heavily favours the powerful effect that lines up with pot/trinkets/cooldowns/lust

  6. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sxq View Post
    Which would be fine if dps was constant, but the multiplicative nature of cooldown stacking heavily favours the powerful effect that lines up with pot/trinkets/cooldowns/lust
    Yeah, thats what I thought... that's really my only gripe with fire spec atm. Knowingly gimping myself because "i dont like it" is not something I want to do. I guess it adds one more layer to the gameplay... fml

  7. #867
    Deleted
    Because of the nature of stacking CDs together, Rune will certainly be the strongest option for pretty much every fight in PvE. Partly because the design is no longer IF for movement and RoP for static fights, but rather RoP for the 10-15 sec of coordinated burst and nothing else coming close. Hell, I've seen some PvP videos on the beta where it is abused for ridiculous burst, especially from Fire mages with some other PvP talents.

    I foresee a lot of people being unhappy and I just wish the whole talent tier with RoP, MI, and IF to be replaced in the next expansion. Mirror Images is in an especially bad place because not only does it have the old problems from WoD (bad spec synergy and scaling from secondary stats), but RoP essentially has the same function of a on-demand CD with far better results. I can see RoP in Legion having the same faults as Prismatic Crystal does currently - too much damage, not particularity fun to set up (way better than PC though) and being uncontested on the talent tier.
    Last edited by mmoc2462126d54; 2016-06-21 at 10:31 AM.

  8. #868
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovassy View Post
    So one can line it up with the ring
    I can't line it up with the ring on any of the strategies for the bosses we still wipe at (manno/archi).

    (Then again, they could nerf the raid by 50%.. so it might not matter).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Exil25 View Post
    way better than PC though
    I'm not sure about that.

  9. #869
    Quote Originally Posted by Exil25 View Post
    Because of the nature of stacking CDs together, Rune will certainly be the strongest option for pretty much every fight in PvE. Partly because the design is no longer IF for movement and RoP for static fights, but rather RoP for the 10-15 sec of coordinated burst and nothing else coming close. Hell, I've seen some PvP videos on the beta where it is abused for ridiculous burst, especially from Fire mages with some other PvP talents.

    I foresee a lot of people being unhappy and I just wish the whole talent tier with RoP, MI, and IF to be replaced in the next expansion. Mirror Images is in an especially bad place because not only does it have the old problems from WoD (bad spec synergy and scaling from secondary stats), but RoP essentially has the same function of a on-demand CD with far better results. I can see RoP in Legion having the same faults as Prismatic Crystal does currently - too much damage, not particularity fun to set up (way better than PC though) and being uncontested on the talent tier.
    To be honest, i don't think RoP will go live the way it is: they will probably nerf its damage bonus quite consistently. If it goes live the way it is, it will probably be changed shortly after, expecially for its PvP potential.

  10. #870
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by The Archmage View Post
    To be honest, i don't think RoP will go live the way it is: they will probably nerf its damage bonus quite consistently. If it goes live the way it is, it will probably be changed shortly after, expecially for its PvP potential.
    I'm not sure the spell is going to be that important for specs other than arcane, even with the mastery buff of combustion.

    It doesn't look too PvP friendly. PvP needs almost constant movement. Mages often have to blink on cooldown.

  11. #871
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Exil25 View Post
    Hell, I've seen some PvP videos on the beta where it is abused for ridiculous burst, especially from Fire mages with some other PvP talents.
    Pretty sure you're talking about the greater Pyroblast oneshot setup. That won't really work in coordinated team PvP. It basically only works if there is no way to disrupt the mage for about 6 seconds (cast RoP, hard cast greater Pyro followed by hard casting a Fireball - both arriving at approximately the same time due to greater pyros slow travel time)


    I'd love for them to at least make Mirror Images competitive, especially since they nerfed their health, making them not even viable as a semi defense CD (as emergency tanks)

    I just hope they make RoP not the dominant "you gotta take this or you'll suck" choice. Why is Blizzard tormenting us with this shitty spell? I mean the current iteration is MILES better than than MoP RoP but jesus fucking christ, why is it still there? And why is it still the BEST choice?




    BY THE WAY

    How come that there is so little discussion about Fire Mages having a bubble of ice around them 90% of the time? Blizzard wanted to promote spec fantasy so hard this expansion, yet the masters of fire and flames are encased in ice for the majority of their actual play time. I know Blizzard said they don't want to change it, by why isn't there a a stronger backlash for this decision? Are people just okay with having to use Ice Barrier?

    Quite frankly, it doesn't disturb me in Arcane spec eveen half as much as in fire spec. But FIRE spec in an ice bubble? Why Blizzard? At least give us an arcane bubble.
    I don't mind using frost spells generally, but having such a dominant icy visual that basically has some 80-90% up time really breaks the fire mage class fantasy for me.
    Last edited by mmocc8e49f527e; 2016-06-21 at 07:02 PM.

  12. #872
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Grungrungrun View Post
    Why is Blizzard tormenting us with this shitty spell? I mean the current iteration is MILES better than than MoP RoP but jesus fucking christ, why is it still there? And why is it still the BEST choice?
    Because you're not melee and you have to stay put and dps because otherwise you would be OP. I don't like it but that's how I understand their logic. It might not be fair when compared against other ranged either.

  13. #873
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    The only thing mages complained about in BC was how boring Arcane was and how they wished that Mage was more entertaining to play.
    I really don't remember it being like that at all during TBC. Arcane was still very much an underdog spec but other mages were praising it for what was a really engaging spec (for mages at the time). The main lament about arcane was how players felt like they were locked out of it if they couldn't get the 2-piece tier 5 set bonus, and people were complaining for ages about the Improved Fireball / Frostbolt coefficient penalty. Along with a lot of bitterness over not being able to benefit from anything like the shadow priest / warlock synergy wildness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grungrungrun View Post
    How come that there is so little discussion about Fire Mages having a bubble of ice around them 90% of the time? Blizzard wanted to promote spec fantasy so hard this expansion, yet the masters of fire and flames are encased in ice for the majority of their actual play time. I know Blizzard said they don't want to change it, by why isn't there a a stronger backlash for this decision? Are people just okay with having to use Ice Barrier?
    I'll admit to being biased about this but from what I've read, it seems like the vocal mage population is split down the middle about this. Some prefer to be spec purists, while others (like me) actually LIKE seeing some cross-elemental abilities like retaining Ice Barrier despite speccing fire. It's been brought up on Twitter before and if I recall correctly, they've admitted to seeing feedback going both ways about it.
    Last edited by Sarm; 2016-06-21 at 09:10 PM.

  14. #874
    I've been curious on the mechanics of Fire with the stat/ability changes of Legion.

    What seems to be the most optimal stats for maximizing fires potential?

    I tried out several combinations, but couldn't come up with anything very conclusive. I do feel like going heavy heavy crit may in fact not be worth it due to the mechanical changes.

    Anyone come up with some adequate testing or sims so far as to a solid stat priority/weighting?
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  15. #875
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarm View Post
    I'll admit to being biased about this but from what I've read, it seems like the vocal mage population is split down the middle about this. Some prefer to be spec purists, while others (like me) actually LIKE seeing some cross-elemental abilities like retaining Ice Barrier despite speccing fire. It's been brought up on Twitter before and if I recall correctly, they've admitted to seeing feedback going both ways about it.
    I don't mind cross spec spells. I love them.

    But Ice Barrier is too visually dominating. It's a bubble of Ice that surrounds your character and - unless you take heavy damage - can have a 100% uptime. I'm a FIRE mage. I shouldn't have an ICE visual dominating my appearence. It's not the same as using Frost Nova or Blink or even Blizzard or whatever. Again, I'd even be fine using Mana Shield. I just think that a dominating ICE visual is a terrible choice for a FIRE mage.

  16. #876
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grungrungrun View Post
    BY THE WAY

    How come that there is so little discussion about Fire Mages having a bubble of ice around them 90% of the time? Blizzard wanted to promote spec fantasy so hard this expansion, yet the masters of fire and flames are encased in ice for the majority of their actual play time. I know Blizzard said they don't want to change it, by why isn't there a a stronger backlash for this decision? Are people just okay with having to use Ice Barrier?
    Here we go again. There are tens of pages dedicated to this exact issue throughout a variety of threads in this very forum. It's not that there is "little discussion" but more that the discussion has gone on and on, and around in circles for months, which I guess is why people stopped talking about it. Some people don't care at all, some people agree with it, and some people are purists who don't agree with it. There is no right or wrong answer. I don't think much more can come from reigniting the discussion again; you can read everyone's opinions and arguments by digging through the major Beta threads here.

  17. #877
    Fireball Throws a fiery ball that causes [ 1 + 200% 180% of Spell Power ] Fire damage. Mage - Fire Spec. 2% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 2.2 sec cast.
    Pyroblast Hurls an immense fiery boulder that causes [ 1 + 430% 420% of Spell Power ] Fire damage. Mage - Fire Spec. 2.5% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 4.5 sec cast.

  18. #878
    Deleted
    Nerfs are coming.

  19. #879
    Well they buffed us last patch when we all thought we needed a nerf so all they've done is reverted those buffs, i'm cool with that.

  20. #880
    Nerfs and buffs are not that important until we can see how we compare to our other specs and the rest of the classes as a whole. The most important thing is that we can function mechanically.

    Minor gripe however, I was attached to the name Inferno Blast. oh well at least the mechanics are the same.

    Now for the lol worthy change this patch, Blast Furnace and Aftershocks have swapped positions in the artifact. /headdesk

    So for those who dont know. Blast Furnace was hitting like a wet noodle and wasnt worth investing points into when those same points would be better used on powering up another artifact. Instead of doing something to make Blast Furnace worth it, they just swapped it with something.....that is also not that worth it.
    Last edited by pyrostorm9001; 2016-06-22 at 05:09 AM.

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