Queue: "If I can't click 1 button, I won't participate"

[Marrilaife]

Well, if said bad player is in my guild or raid, it is my obligation to help them improve, solicited or not.

Most attempts to help someone improve are not to bash a person for being "bad" but because someone in this community still cares about another player and wants to see them rather improved than kicked out. However it probably mostly falls on deaf ears.

There are less and less people who want to bother, nowadays if I see someone looking like a genuine fresh player I always tell him - if you have a doubt, google it or check on wowhead, never ask on trade. Why? Because most answers are troll ones. "Hey guys what's the best rogue spec these days?" "Resto" "Unholy" etc.

Apparently more people feel cool about themselves when they troll and bullshit others rather than give solid advice.

[kary]

Most attempts to help someone improve are not to bash a person for being "bad" but because someone in this community still cares about another player and wants to see them rather improved than kicked out. However it probably mostly falls on deaf ears.

There are less and less people who want to bother, nowadays if I see someone looking like a genuine fresh player I always tell him - if you have a doubt, google it or check on wowhead, never ask on trade. Why? Because most answers are troll ones. "Hey guys what's the best rogue spec these days?" "Resto" "Unholy" etc.

Apparently more people feel cool about themselves when they troll and bullshit others rather than give solid advice.

There's a dearth of information available in google.
Why would you check trade when you could google and get 50+ results?
People who legit ask for things like spec help in trade deserve what they get tbqh.

[Foj]

There's a dearth of information available in google.
Why would you check trade when you could google and get 50+ results?
People who legit ask for things like spec help in trade deserve what they get tbqh.

People who are asking for help in /2 are actually attempting to socialize.

You ask what's wrong with WoW? Well, this won't cover everything, but in this thread we have a significant number of people who:

1) Say that giving strangers unsolicited criticism is good
2) Say that if someone asks for help, trolling with bullshit is good

Q.E.D.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I think most people enjoy being coached; few people enjoy feeling judged.

The difference? A coach is invested in helping you improve your game; the coach cares about you, so even when he's chewing your ass it's from a place that only wants you to get better.

A judge is just pronouncing whether you're good enough as you are today. Seeing in group chat "Let's votekick this player who doesn't meet my standards" before most in the group even know what's going on always leaves a bad taste.

[Pull My Finger]

Isn't it highly ironic when a guy gets mad at people and calls them "antisocial" because they're not personally and time-wise invested enough in a video game?

[mysticx]

There's a dearth of information available in google.
Why would you check trade when you could google and get 50+ results?
People who legit ask for things like spec help in trade deserve what they get tbqh.

This is hilarious, on one end complaining that people aren't social anymore, and on the other saying that if you speak up on chat you "deserve what you get" (trolling and/or outright insults), gee, why would people prefer keeping their heads down and just playing the game over having to go through the people infesting chat to get into group content?

[Deleted]

LFR and LFG were a solution to a problem:

LFG removed the frustration of waiting for hours in a city to get one run in on a dungeon that you needed to run multiple times to get something done, like attunements or a specific piece of gear. It populated the dungeons more - and more players in dungeons is a good thing, for the overall game.

LFR was to allow players to see raids that they would otherwise not see. The developers said straight up, the cost of devoloping content only 2-5% of the players saw wasn't cost effective, and LFR let them use that content for everyone else. It was never set up or described as real raiding, and it's content not intended for raiders.

Could they have done something different? Sure. And they could in the future, but it worked. Ever since, the one group both systems weren't designed for - raiders - have cried and sniveled about them endlessly.

So lets go back to the old days, where 98% of the players never see a raid instance, where forming your own group is next to impossible because decent tanks and healers won't group with non-guild members and random players, or are cherrypicked out of your group by a guild run or a group of raiders who offer a faceroll, instead of having to actually work for the drops. 'Cause that was so much fun, right? All of the "just make your own group" comments are ignorant or ignore the reality that tanks and healers are hard to find at that level, especially for random pugs. Tanks often refuse to tank outside of their guild. I spent way too many hours in TBC with 3 dps, and never finding a tank or healer. Yeah, that was so efficient, and fun.

It's been the elitist asshat's agenda, since vanilla, to take stuff away from anyone that doesn't raid - and it's the same bullshit when it comes to LFR and LFG. "But we're forced to run it!" - that's between you and your raid leader, not our circus, not our monkeys.

And, even IF Blizzard removed both, and came up with something new to replace them, the same people will find a way to abuse it, snivel about it, and demand that it be removed. You know it's true. Raiders are never more happy than when they're in vent sniveling about "casuals" - I raided, I heard it.

OMG, oh noes, 10 people are zoning into a dumbed down raid instance with no raid leader! The sky is falling! Pffft.

If you raid, LFR and LFG is not content designed for you. So stop acting like it's yours to control.

You may now resume sniveling.

The developers said straight up, the cost of devoloping content only 2-5% of the players saw wasn't cost effective

Thats only true for classic though. Wotlk was already really accessible for more than those numbers for raids and dungeons.

So lets go back to the old days, where 98% of players never see a raid instance

No one said that >_>

All of the "just make your own group" comments are ignorant or ignore the reality that tanks and healers are hard to find at that level, especially for random pugs

I do believe its harder(harder=wait longer D to find ppl for a raid but for a 5 man dungeon rly...?

and it's the same bullshit when it comes to LFR and LFG. "But we're forced to run it!" - that's between you and your raid leader, not our circus, not our monkeys.


having 2 of the 10 dungeons being mythic only seems fine then.

Raiders are never more happy than when they're in vent sniveling about "casuals" - I raided, I heard it.

Because something like that can be easily expanded to the hole raiding community- after all u raided and heart it >_>

If you raid, LFR and LFG is not content designed for you. So stop acting like it's yours to control.

"If you dont raid or do mythic dungeons that content is not designed for you. So stop acting like it's yours to control." Would be a solid statement for "2 out of 10 dungeons are mytic only T_T"

[silloh]

I don't understand how people have a desire to play WoW or any other MMO, but don't want to interact with other players to get stuff done in the game, or to participate in content in a game. Wasn't the whole premise of an MMO that you were going to be expected to interact with other players to play the game optimally, as the genre (MMO) suggests?

The bolded part is the key for me... i like to interact with other players, but to be dependant and be forced to play with random people is another story. Specially considering the extreme amount of "trolls", "cyber-bullies" and such kind of ppl that inhabitates the virtual worlds...

[primalmatter]

what a misleading title. OP and supporters please move on to other games, steam and console is clearly for you. or maybe you wait until you see that legion flop before you pack your bag for good? please.

most of us are there to play the game. not to be turned down by some elitist with issues when lfg. be more worried about a faceroll two button game that none want to participate in than how people get A>B. Or even, grasp the fact that it is warcraft not a facebook game where people make bandcamps around every single trivial detail. All you demand is more raids so your welcome to have a trashed game. Don't you dear complain on the experience that you designed by neglecting everything else.

let me guess. there is not enough elitists about anymore to raid without other people so they desperately want 5 man content that they can feel special in.

yes indeed you are special if you play wow. don't worry and make it all so much worse by trying to address a problem that doesn't exist in other than a few elitists minds. go pvp and let devs focus on making something for everyone, not for self appointed special snowflakes, which aren't even good players. Good players don't want social gateways and certainly not a socially demanding environment. its contradictive, irrelevant and extremely damaging for the game. If majority of wow players were socially adapted they wouldn't be playing wow in the first place, even without taking into regard language barriers. English speaking nations is really tucked up in themselves. Which even just about every group with Russians prove, performing 10x better than the average "western" comparison.

I guess thats enough lessons that wont be caught. You don't know my preferences, you have only been shown some of what's really wrong with the game and its playerbase.

What a passive aggressive way to claim wow players are antisocial losers who would quit if forced to rely on others.

If that wasn't your point try to cut the vague bullshit you spout like a social studies professor trying to explain to a student the benefits his education brings to the job market.

I get some people want mindless content they can never lose at and requires so little cooperation that if on every second run they replaced the players with bots no one would be any the wiser but I dare say to this day that isn't the majority.

The fact people are whining that some stranger took time out of their day to commit the cardinal sin of trying to help them is depressing.

[nekobaka]

I agree that something had to be done to help people finding groups.
However, i believe the disired effect could've been realised with a more fleshed-out LFG trool. This would've made group making allot easier while still keeping the control with the players. LFD has caused more harm to the way the game is now played using automated groups then it helped people out with creating groups.

GW2 solely relies on a LFG tool which has worked out quiet well if you ask me

Well an after the fact comment by the lead dev GC who heavily defended the random queue system far more than any other dev, commented that the non-random group finder would of have been the better choice looking back.

Cross realm group finder that is available now has been asked for since Classic. The system got left to the dumps in mid WotLK with focus on the random queue system. With the success of the random queue system for dungeons the work began on LFR. Bullshit enough the pro-LFR camp likes to act like no one asked or even thought that LFR was dreamed of. Complete bull shit as players at the time asked for a normal mode difficulty option of the random queue system and the devs even in WotLK hinted at working on such a feature for raids.

Cata heroics however revealed that random queue is highly susceptible by a small minority of dbag griefers that ruined the enjoyment of the majority. This ultimately lead to the realization that LFR has to be catered to the bottom minority so that the enjoyment of gameplay is not ruined for the majority.

Unfortunately there is enough players who are unwilling to not be selfish dbags that force themselves onto others in content that requires teamwork that leads to a frustrating experience for those who enjoy group based content. Blizzard responds to faceroll content that even DPS can tank or suffer hour plus queues if they dont which is not casual friendly and anyone who defends such is not casual. No wonder group requirements for premade content goes up. All to get the self entitled dbags from ruining the experience for the whole group.

[HuxNeva]

LFR is the highest difficulty a group of random people with no RL can achieve.

100% BS. Cata LFR was much closer to WoD Normal in terms of difficulty than to WoD LFR, and yet people learned how to do them.

[primalmatter]

Elitists doesn't help anything other than ruining the experiences with game. How dare you imply that their degenerate manners are helping people, where clearly their eccentric ways are not for mainstream. In a game where such finesse is scrapped long ago. They persist, to create a very bad community where elitists act like self-proclaimed winners that should have exclusive content.

In some weird way i'm happy blue's development pretty much equals piss all over elitists.

In what way exactly?

The hardest difficulties remains in the game...

It isn't the mythic raider who is going to find himself shut out of pugs when people start demanding full heroic gear with a few mythic ilv and a legendary to run normal raids....

Nothing has changed save non raiders have had their content cheapened by being allowed to out gear it even faster. The tables haven't turned friend you are simply losing faster now.

[kary]

This is hilarious, on one end complaining that people aren't social anymore, and on the other saying that if you speak up on chat you "deserve what you get" (trolling and/or outright insults), gee, why would people prefer keeping their heads down and just playing the game over having to go through the people infesting chat to get into group content?

/2 hay guys what's best spec for rogue?

That's trying to be social? lol.

Be honest with yourself. That's way less social than people actively trolling trade. These people just want an answer. If you reply with what they want, chances are you won't even get a word of gratitude. But whatever, lol.

People who are asking for help in /2 are actually attempting to socialize.

You ask what's wrong with WoW? Well, this won't cover everything, but in this thread we have a significant number of people who:

1) Say that giving strangers unsolicited criticism is good
2) Say that if someone asks for help, trolling with bullshit is good

Q.E.D.

I help those that help themselves. If you honestly believe that asking in trade will yield better results than googling, well you too, deserve a healthy dose of ridicule. Everything someone will tell you in trade, you can find a 10 times more in-depth explanation online, why bother asking in trade?
And no, I don't inspect strangers and give them unsolicited criticism. Because the level I play/pug at I expect people to do/know better, and if they don't, especially if I join their run, guess what? I just leave. Groups are easy to find.

- - - Updated - - -

100% BS. Cata LFR was much closer to WoD Normal in terms of difficulty than to WoD LFR, and yet people learned how to do them.

debatable.

You'd get 10 stacks on durumu and thok and nazgrim well into the WoD prepatch.

[Pua]

People who are asking for help in /2 are actually attempting to socialize.

You ask what's wrong with WoW? Well, this won't cover everything, but in this thread we have a significant number of people who:

1) Say that giving strangers unsolicited criticism is good
2) Say that if someone asks for help, trolling with bullshit is good

Q.E.D.

As you said earlier, this thread has been very revealing.

[primalmatter]

You answered your question. You are losing faster now..

Hardest difficulties are long gone from game. Not sure what your on about, perhaps the remnants of feeling exclusive by doing exclusive content..

Raiders haven't lost anything... hell we got our three tiers back. Only people who run casual content keep running out of things to do and that goes hand in hand with them begging for free loot.

On some level I feel we are talking past each other.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

As you said earlier, this thread has been very revealing.

Well, it's obvious. People are upset the game gives multiple ways to play, meaning that blizzard doesn't think their way is the only and correct way.

[Niwes]

wow. this is the first jaylock topic in my life, i ever agreed 100 %. crazy.

[HuxNeva]

/
debatable.

You'd get 10 stacks on durumu and thok and nazgrim well into the WoD prepatch.

Nobody learned mechanics in SoO because of stacks.
- 20% of a-social lazies discovered they could afk/follow and still get the gear in the end
- another 40% then said, 'well f this, I'm not going to bust my ass learning the fights just to carry those afk's'
- A remaining 5% now says 'I'm going to lul teach them a lesson and see how many stacks I can get them to have and still wipe'
- finally there is 35% extremely unhappy 'regular' players desperately trying to get it over with, but raking up stacks because of the other 2/3'rds

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Raiders haven't lost anything... hell we got our three tiers back. Only people who run casual content keep running out of things to do and that goes hand in hand with them begging for free loot.

On some level I feel we are talking past each other.

I feel like you've only been talking at people since the beginning. And casuals don't run out of content. They simply decided they didn't want to rise to the challenge in further difficulty. But that's ok, it's not like we're stripping down hard modes, heck we're even getting more difficulty modes instead.

[primalmatter]

I feel like you've only been talking at people since the beginning. And casuals don't run out of content. They simply decided they didn't want to rise to the challenge in further difficulty. But that's ok, it's not like we're stripping down hard modes, heck we're even getting more difficulty modes instead.

True. I am still extremely skeptical of titanforge but at this point all we can really do is wait and see its effects. I think people are going to get tired or frustrated with loot more then pleased by a lucky proc but well its in the game now all we can do is wait and see.