Murky world of PC game key reselling exposed by indie developer

[unholytestament]

Did you ignore the part where there site was the only site selling the keys originally. So how did they get from A to B?

I don't know what you think this addresses about my point. Unless you are somehow convinced that G2A was also the only one buying keys from them.

Which really says a lot about the games if that's true.

[ParanoiD84]

Or perhaps, pay the price and support the developer?

I would if they slowed down putting out so many games, either lower the prices or stop releasing so many games. Paying 699$ for multiple titles that you will play for 10 hours? nope dont think so.

[Zogarth]

There was no mention of sellers or goods in that post.

... You imply that he needs to prove that the goods (aka game keys) are stolen, and that the seller (G2A in this case) does not need to know if they are reselling stolen or not. Which I, and most laws of the world disagree with. They should at least strive to know and limit the sales of stolen goods. Which G2A is not even putting up a front of attempting.

I would if they slowed down putting out so many games, either lower the prices or stop releasing so many games. Paying 699$ for multiple titles that you will play for 10 hours? nope dont think so.

I have never seen a game for 699$... and while I do agree that games like the yearly releases are bullshit, the fix is easy: Don't buy them.

[Jtbrig7390]

I don't know what you think this addresses about my point. Unless you are somehow convinced that G2A was also the only one buying keys from them.

Which really says a lot about the games if that's true.

Once again stay with me here.

This dev sold the keys ONLY on there website. Then the keys ended up on G2A along with charge backs. There was no middle man besides whoever bought the key from there site and posted them on G2A.

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I would if they slowed down putting out so many games, either lower the prices or stop releasing so many games. Paying 699$ for multiple titles that you will play for 10 hours? nope dont think so.

Or you could you know stop thinking your entitled to every game release.

Once again just because you can't buy something doesn't ok you to steal it.

[Zogarth]

Once again stay with me here.

This dev sold the keys ONLY on there website. Then the keys ended up on G2A along with charge backs. There was no middle man besides whoever bought the key from there site and posted them on G2A.

Not entirely correct, they also sold through steam and some other sellers. But of course with these they had perfect information of the sales, so the point still stands that counting the number of copies in the market is easy.

[Super Kami Dende]

Yep and in order to resell a car it must be bought new first. You don't go to ford buy a car and then issue a charge back and keep the car. People buy keys from X site post on G2A and issue charge backs.

Its the charge back part you are forgetting.

People receive cars as Gifts/Prizes from Car Companies and resell them. People could also charge back a Car if they were so inclined. The difference being you can easily issue new keys, you can't easily replace a whole car.

You are literally arguing semantics.

[Jtbrig7390]

... You imply that he needs to prove that the goods (aka game keys) are stolen, and that the seller (G2A in this case) does not need to know if they are reselling stolen or not. Which I, and most laws of the world disagree with. They should at least strive to know and limit the sales of stolen goods. Which G2A is not even putting up a front of attempting.


I have never seen a game for 699$... and while I do agree that games like the yearly releases are bullshit, the fix is easy: Don't buy them.

Agreed. G2A handwaves all legal responsibility.

On top of that in order to be protected you must pay more.

[unholytestament]

... You imply that he needs to prove that the goods (aka game keys) are stolen,

Yes, since he has flatly stated that developer get no money fromG2A sales that would mean all G2A keys are stolen (or chargebacked or whatever, but going forward just lump thsi in with stolen).

and that the seller (G2A in this case) does not need to know if they are reselling stolen or not.

Nowhere did I say that.

In fact I have pointed out in this thread (as have others) that G2A does deal with problem sellers when they are reported to them.

They should at least strive to know and limit the sales of stolen goods. Which G2A is not even putting up a front of attempting.

No, what is happening here is that G2A did not bow down to an indie developer that has no proof of wrongdoing.

However G2A will refund you your money and deal with problem sellers should you as a customer discover your key was stolen via it being deactivated.

[ParanoiD84]

Don't buy them.

Then they will get zero cash either way, i can go download them on piratebay to but i dont as i like to patch my games.

And most games on steam here is 599$ still alot of money for games you will play for 10 hours.

[Quibble]

I thought it was known that G2A is a piece of shit semi-illegal website long ago. In many cases I think piracy would be better, even for the developers than buying off a website like G2A. But people want to save those 2$, so what can you do. Just don't fucking pretend you don't know.

For a while, the reason I was using G2A, was because by default it had us set to being outside the european trade union. and I just "accidently" forgot to change to the right country.. So, saving the 25% tax.

[Jtbrig7390]

People receive cars as Gifts/Prizes from Car Companies and resell them. People could also charge back a Car if they were so inclined. The difference being you can easily issue new keys, you can't easily replace a whole car.

You are literally arguing semantics.

Ummmm you can't charge back a car, so I really don't know what the fuck your talking about. Also those Gifts/Prizes come with people paying the tax of those things.

You do realize the prices people win on Price is Right isn't free right? Those things are bought and paided for.

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Then they will get zero cash either way, i can go download them on piratebay to but i dont as i like to patch my games.

And most games on steam here is 599$ still alot of money for games you will play for 10 hours.

No the difference is if you don't buy they get nothing but if you buy from G2A they originally got something then lost it.

[Super Kami Dende]

Ummmm you can't charge back a car, so I really don't know what the fuck your talking about. Also those Gifts/Prizes come with people paying the tax of those things.

You do realize the prices people win on Price is Right isn't free right? Those things are bought and paided for.

I know that certain companies do in fact give away cars. Mazda is currently giving away free cars as prizes in my city atm.

[Raiju]

People receive cars as Gifts/Prizes from Car Companies and resell them. People could also charge back a Car if they were so inclined. The difference being you can easily issue new keys, you can't easily replace a whole car.

You are literally arguing semantics.

People can chargeback a car in the correct situation but you personally can't go chargebacking every purchase you make (and in most cases you are expected to return the item). Chargebacks are intended to be a last resort to get your money back from a purchase gone wrong (generally assumed it's the SELLERS mistake and they aren't making good on it). You aren't intended to get a freebie, just your money back.

You also understand that those cars are still seen as costs to the company and effectively used as advertising? Having people chargeback your actual inventory is not considered advertising, and it isn't helpful.

[Jtbrig7390]

I know that certain companies do in fact give away cars. Mazda is currently giving away free cars as prizes in my city atm.

You mean Mazda is giving away cars they bought and paided for.......see the difference yet.

[unholytestament]

Once again stay with me here.

This dev sold the keys ONLY on there website. Then the keys ended up on G2A along with charge backs. There was no middle man besides whoever bought the key from there site and posted them on G2A.

You clearly have a problem following me.

Unless G2A were the only ones buying keys you could not prove that all the stolen keys were acquired by G2A. Even the article doesn't make that claim.

"I'd start seeing thousands of transactions, and our payment provider would shut us down within days," Nichiporchik said. "Moments later you'd see G2A being populated by cheap keys of games we had just sold on our shop."

You would probably see the exact same thing from any number of key selling sites around the web. This is just the belief in correlation equaling causation. This is not proof.

[Zogarth]

Then they will get zero cash either way, i can go download them on piratebay to but i dont as i like to patch my games.

And most games on steam here is 599$ still alot of money for games you will play for 10 hours.

Don't you mean 59.9$? Also, when I say don't buy them, I mean don't play them. If you don't think the 10 hours or whatever is worth your money, don't spend your money.

You clearly have a problem following me.

Unless G2A were the only ones buying keys you could not prove that all the stolen keys were acquired by G2A. Even the article doesn't make that claim.

"I'd start seeing thousands of transactions, and our payment provider would shut us down within days," Nichiporchik said. "Moments later you'd see G2A being populated by cheap keys of games we had just sold on our shop."

You would probably see the exact same thing from any number of key selling sites around the web. This is just the belief in correlation equaling causation. This is not proof.

But they know where those keys sold on G2A comes from. Either they come from an official seller or themselves. Of course they don't know if suddenly a thousand people decided "oh gee, time to sell all the keys we have been hoarding from all other sellers", but the possibility is so damn low it is not worth considering. A more plausible explanation would be the thousand keys bought with a illegal card instead.

[Tacotuesday]

People receive cars as Gifts/Prizes from Car Companies and resell them. People could also charge back a Car if they were so inclined. The difference being you can easily issue new keys, you can't easily replace a whole car.

You are literally arguing semantics.

You're also trying to argue that *winning* a car is related to buying a key. That car was not purchased by the end user. The only way this relationship will work is if the end user buys the car cheaper than it's original manufacturer's retail price. And then to relate it to G2A, pretend that that car is potentially stolen, and will be taken back, but you don't know this until the instance of it happening, actually occurs.

You're buying a product that is not from a verified distributor, you're taking the risk of it being stolen/not working. Of course the seller also has to take the risk of buying potentially stolen keys which will harm their rep, and their future sales.

G2A is a business, they are there to make a profit. They would not be operating if they were not pulling profits. Now think to yourself for a second, how would a reselling company be profitting on resellings cd keys for cheaper than their manufacturer's retail price? Kind of obvious how, anyone who defends the practice simply is the same person that will pay any Joe Blow for the same product just because it's cheaper. The morals aren't there to begin with so there is zero reason to bother with reasoning.


*by "stolen keys", I'm simply referring to potential chargebacks on keys.

[ParanoiD84]

Don't you mean 59.9$? Also, when I say don't buy them, I mean don't play them. If you don't think the 10 hours or whatever is worth your money, don't spend your money.

Ah yes 59,99$ of course otherwise it would be one game a year lol.

[Jtbrig7390]

You clearly have a problem following me.

I have done explained it twice and its clear your not getting it. Also loved how you took a quote and ignored the last part of it.

The fact remains G2A got keys that was only being sold on there site. They got hit with charge backs as well.

That means there was keys on G2A that should not have been.

G2A handwaves all legal responsibility.

[Raiju]

I'm still wondering why G2A buyers are wasting money instead of pirating, btw.