Prune 3.0 should be even bigger imho.

[l33t]

I think every class should have just three spells: one offensive, one defensive and one utillity. more is not needed and it's just better game design that way and blizz knows this as well.

Less is more! Amen, brother!

I also think so many classes and specs is not needed too. We need only three: Protector, Medic and Ripper. Less is more!

[Deleted]

lol


/10char

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I prefered the vanilla to wrath model, where my toon was complex and had loads of skills on the hotbar but the encounters a lot simpler.

tbf the classes/specs in vanilla and (maybe) TBC weren't exactly complex, maybe they felt like that back then but nowadays no way.

[l33t]

You think you want more abilities, but in reality you don't.

[Deleted]

Lol, and where is your Wildstar? Struggling to survive? What an awesome example you just made. Totally the iconic game to use its features.

Actually, instead of jumping on the "lol wildstar fail" bandwagon, you would notice majority of people stop playing for various reasons. Bugs, lack of new content (no new raids since release), pushing the old skool style of raiding/#hardcore, focusing on just raiding as the end game goal, game is boring until about 2/3 into the levelling and the artwork. These are the reasons majority of people leave, not because of the way the abilities are handled. My example is that Wildstar made 7 buttons actually have a degree of difficulty to it. Something WoW has never achieved. It is evidence that the system you mock "less is more" can work but Blizz just failed to make that for Legion.

If you wanna have a proper discussion about it, use a real argument instead of just "lol no" please.

EDIT: just noticed your previous responses. You are here to troll not discuss. Sorry for feeding the troll guys =\

[Deleted]

You think you want more abilities, but in reality you don't.

we want the right abilities

[Deleted]

Actually, instead of jumping on the "lol wildstar fail" bandwagon, you would notice majority of people stop playing for various reasons. Bugs, lack of new content (no new raids since release), pushing the old skool style of raiding/#hardcore, focusing on just raiding as the end game goal, game is boring until about 2/3 into the levelling and the artwork. These are the reasons majority of people leave, not because of the way the abilities are handled. My example is that Wildstar made 7 buttons actually have a degree of difficulty to it. Something WoW has never achieved. It is evidence that the system you mock "less is more" can work but Blizz just failed to make that for Legion.

If you wanna have a proper discussion about it, use a real argument instead of just "lol no" please.

EDIT: just noticed your previous responses. You are here to troll not discuss. Sorry for feeding the troll guys =\

Honestly, the one and only reason why wildstar failed for me personally was the rampart teleporting-farm-botting-gold-selling shenanigans early on, that obliterated any kind of realm - economy.

Having tested a few specs on PTR, I gotta say, the prune seems to have hit a sweet spot right now. IMO there's a ton of interaction between the reduced skill set as opposed to the prevalent whack-a-mole/use-the-biggest-DPET-available-right-now, that made up to core of the current play style.

Don't get the rage about mentioning consoles in regards to WoW. FFXIV does it, and it does it well.

[l33t]

If you wanna have a proper discussion about it, use a real argument instead of just "lol no" please.

To be honest, all that matters is the result. What is the result? Right. The game failed, so it is quite logical to think its components are failing when mixed in that exact proportions. I loved Wildstar's housing, and would kill for having something like that in WoW, so what? The game failed, so I don't think it bears any good example for anything, except the one I've already mentioned: don't make a game for 0.5% nolifers.

Also: never liked the system of skills in Wildstar. I always felt like I need one more ability slot. Just one more.

EDIT: just noticed your previous responses. You are here to troll not discuss. Sorry for feeding the troll guys =\

Calling other forum posters (who disagree with you) trolls is forbidden by the forum rules, by the way.

we want the right abilities

But how about people who want left abilities? How about that???

[Pantelija]

lol


/10char

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tbf the classes/specs in vanilla and (maybe) TBC weren't exactly complex, maybe they felt like that back then but nowadays no way.

Yes i am sure today everything is more complex with every major spell being given to you via some passive talent tied to your spec and you can only pick "utility" spells which are semi-useless.

[Deleted]

To be honest, all that matters is the result. What is the result? Right. The game failed, so it is quite logical to think its components are failing when mixed in that exact proportions. I loved Wildstar's housing, and would kill for having something like that in WoW, so what? The game failed, so I don't think it bears any good example for anything, except the one I've already mentioned: don't make a game for 0.5% nolifers.



Calling other forum posters (who disagree with you) trolls is forbidden by the forum rules, by the way.

Not sure why I am even bothering replying. Boredom I guess? I see you are not a science man then. Doesn't surprise me. If you were half as intelligent as you think you are, you would know the result is only half of the battle.

EDIT: have to laugh as well. It is ok for you to say something is good from a "failed" game but not for me. Lol thanks for that. Evidence of troll bait and I fall for it everytime!

[l33t]

Not sure why I am even bothering replying. Boredom I guess? I see you are not a science man then. Doesn't surprise me. If you were half as intelligent as you think you are, you would know the result is only half of the battle.

Already started throwing insults? Did the truth hurt your feelings? Welcome to ignore.

I think I shouldn't act surprised, never saw anything constructive from any of the "less is more" apologisers.

[Deleted]

Already started throwing insults? Did the truth hurt your feelings? Welcome to ignore.

Lol wow no argument back so puts on ignore. He must be fun to hang with!

[Kazgrel]

I would suggest you play Diablo III instead where all your wildest dreams are already true.

Why do that when they can pretty much import the D3 team and have them turn WoW into Diablocraft?

[Pantelija]

Why do that when they can pretty much import the D3 team and have them turn WoW into Diablocraft?

Jay Wilson worked on Legion

[Deleted]

Whatever. There is a reason you guys are the final million (or two) active subscribers to WoW. The other dozens of millions of players who tried WoW over the years left because the game would never modernize itself. Its story and world design are quite appealing, but its gameplay is ancient. It stems from a particular branch of game design which was prevalent in the late 90s and early 00s, and which grew popular mostly because of technical limitations at the time rather than its inherent qualities.

Games like Overwatch and the Witcher 3 do just fine with fewer buttons. I'd argue TW3 is a lot more immersive than WoW as well, so it certainly doesn't suffer in that regard because of having fewer buttons to press. There are potions to brew, spells to keep track of, and clever encounters to overcome. Complexity and difficulty are not dependant on having as many buttons as possible. Complexity could just as well derive from customizing your skills between combat, or the impact of consumables and gear on your gameplay, or the way various skills and abilities synergise to create an enhanced effect. Difficulty doesn't have to boil down to learning a specific rotation and hammering it into your muscle memory. It could be more reliant on spatial awareness, aim, and how well you use the few abilities given to you.

You're welcome to call me a troll with zero grasp of game design if that's what you think, but you're in a shrinking minority and that's something you're going to have to deal with once WoW goes below the 500k mark and Blizzard cuts down on development resources in favour of their newer games.

WoW needs to re-invent itself partly if it is to keep going strong, and this could be one way of doing it.

[Deleted]

Yes i am sure today everything is more complex with every major spell being given to you via some passive talent tied to your spec and you can only pick "utility" spells which are semi-useless.

are you talking about actually playing the specs or just the talent trees etc? if the latter then I don't exactly see your point considering everyone just went with the same talent tree in 99% of cases and if they didn't then it was just because people sucked at the game back then as I'm sure every raider on these classic realms runs with almost identical talent trees.

if you actually consider spamming frostbolt for 10 minutes on a fight as complex then I'd love to see your experience in the current game.

[Pua]

10/10 head in sand performance.

Keep telling yourself that. I don't mind.

[Deleted]

But how about people who want left abilities? How about that???

ah damn forgot about those abilities

seems you can't be serious about this though, some things needed pruning (imo) but some things were fine and give more depth to classes whilst keeping them unique.

[Kolvarg]

Whatever. There is a reason you guys are the final million (or two) active subscribers to WoW. The other dozens of millions of players who tried WoW over the years left because the game would never modernize itself. Its story and world design are quite appealing, but its gameplay is ancient. It stems from a particular branch of game design which was prevalent in the late 90s and early 00s, and which grew popular mostly because of technical limitations at the time rather than its inherent qualities.

Games like Overwatch and the Witcher 3 do just fine with fewer buttons. I'd argue TW3 is a lot more immersive than WoW as well, so it certainly doesn't suffer in that regard because of having fewer buttons to press. There are potions to brew, spells to keep track of, and clever encounters to overcome. Complexity and difficulty are not dependant on having as many buttons as possible. Complexity could just as well derive from customizing your skills between combat, or the impact of consumables and gear on your gameplay, or the way various skills and abilities synergise to create an enhanced effect. Difficulty doesn't have to boil down to learning a specific rotation and hammering it into your muscle memory. It could be more reliant on spatial awareness, aim, and how well you use the few abilities given to you.

You're welcome to call me a troll with zero grasp of game design if that's what you think, but you're in a shrinking minority and that's something you're going to have to deal with once WoW goes below the 500k mark and Blizzard cuts down on development resources in favour of their newer games.

WoW needs to re-invent itself partly if it is to keep going strong, and this could be one way of doing it.

Games like Overwatch and Witcher 3 are different, and were designed with their specific combat systems in mind. How many MMORPGs you know have actually succesffuly re-built their combat system as an update/expansion? The only one that comes to my mind is Runescape, and it pretty much is literally presented as a different game (Runescape 1 to Runescape 2, 2d to 3d; Runescape 2 to Runescape 3, new graphics and combat system). And in that case they ended up supporting both the old and the new combat system in parallel because pretty much half of the playerbase would rather play with the old system.

It can be done, and it can have a space in the Warcraft universe, I just don't think it should be done as a change to the current game. Maybe as a spin-off game, or as WoW2 - That would be completly understandable, as the game would be designed around the new combat system, and part of its identity. But for me WoW's combat, classes and abilities are a big part of what WoW is, despite there being other things that add depth and complexity.

It's true, there's not really that much practical difference between a 3 button rotation and a 6 button rotation after memorizing it. But WoW also has cooldown, situational, utility and support abilities. And those abilities aren't part of the "memorizable" rotation, but can be used in some fights as a way to deal with things, and make them much more interesting. And at least what I take from your OP is that you want basicly 5 clickable abilities total, which is very few to include an attack rotation + occasional abilities.

Also, while it's true WoW's combat design grew popular because of technical limitations, it doesn't mean there's no one who actually enjoy it. The best selling game to this day is tetris. Should we ask Blizzard to change WoW's gameplay to match tetris just because it sells more?

Remember, the only reason we got so many crappy MMORPGs is exactly because companies tried to clone WoW since it was so successful. And I'm pretty sure Overwatch and Witcher 3 aren't successful for having few buttons. So let's stop asking for developers to design for what the "majority" (that's actually made up of people who'll likely never want to try an MMO in the first place anyway) wants, and for what "sells", because that's exactly what gets thousands of crappy games and cashgrabs out there.

[Frolk]

OP being who OP is, i dont know if he is trolling or ACTUALLY serious


If he is, go play an MOBA if wow has to many buttons

[RedGamer030]

My ideal number of abilities is two full action bars (twenty four buttons) of rotational abilities, cooldowns, activated items, and niche abilities (flavor buttons). Then you have another action bar for your mount or mounts, professions, hearthstones, teleportation items or abilities, and whatever else you want on a bar.