[Legion] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Smog]

Why are you multidotting them xD? ... all cleave/multidotting is just useless padding

You seem to have answered your own question, Rait.

[Akx]

They told me not to multi-dot the try after xD I WANTED TO SEE THE DEEPS MAN
Besides, I'd rather use that hour or so of raid testing to test my overall abilities in dealing damage. There was no way we would've downed that boss.

I agree, testing with the full artifact felt good! I can definitely see the class phantasy being fulfilled once we have more artifact traits running.

Does multidotting not give you more insanity generation then?

[Deleted]

You seem to have answered your own question, Rait.

No regrets! *puts shades on*

[Smog]

Does multidotting not give you more insanity generation then?

It does, but the additional gcds to maintain them and the wasted Void Bolts on the off targets definitely yield a dps loss on the primary target.

No regrets! *puts shades on*

[Deleted]

Nyrri, the AddOn i'm using is found in Twintop's WeakAura's. (It's just a weakaura string!)

[Deleted]

Does multidotting not give you more insanity generation then?

How? maybe with t19 2 set when they implement that, but for now multidotting does nothing for insanity gain (switching filer to mind sear does tho and should replace mind flay on stacked targets even if the damage is wasted, i guess you can rotate mind flay for call of the void when you don't have tentacle up.)

[Deleted]

How? maybe with t19 2 set when they implement that, but for now multidotting does nothing for insanity gain (switching filer to mind sear does tho and should replace mind flay on stacked targets even if the damage is wasted, i guess you can rotate mind flay for call of the void when you don't have tentacle up.)

You forget the Auspicious Spirits, Rait. Technically, multidotting does indeed give you a higher insanity generation. But as Smog mentioned - at the cost of lower single-target dps.

[Smog]

switching filer to mind sear does tho and should replace mind flay on stacked targets even if the damage is wasted

I assumed that's what he meant (on top of AS). Or maybe he's assuming the extra dots are somehow generating insanity baseline.

[Deleted]

Aye if you spec AS, tho Sanlayn is so much better for actual dps (and survi on top) after vt buff and doesn't require crit.

[Smog]

Aye if you spec AS, tho Sanlayn is so much better for actual dps (and survi on top) after vt buff and doesn't require crit.

San'layn is better than AS in a multi-dotting scenario? Really? Even if the damage is worse, I'd assume the additional insanity generation would put AS on top. If AS doesn't win out in a multi-dotting scenario, I'm not sure the talent is tuned very well..

[Deleted]

Aye if you spec AS, tho Sanlayn is so much better for actual dps (and survi on top) after vt buff and doesn't require crit.

I can't see San'layn being better than AS on Multitarget Fights. Sure it heals you and all, but I'm certain that once high amounts of crit-gear roll into our hands, AS will simply become amazing once more.

[davesignal]

4 Insanity on every crit, out of a pool of 100, does not impress me very much, especially since the nature of stat distribution now means focusing heavily on one secondary stat generally tanks your others. The actual damage the SAs do, even with AS, is absolutely pitiful.

San'layn and Shadowy Insight only want you to get more haste, like everything else in the spec. I'm going to be really surprised if it turns out AS is straight up better than either.

[Isentropy]

AS is giving me more single target damage than San'layn is, and the Insanity generation is actually very significant and noticeable if you have a decent amount of crit. Shadowy Apparitions don't do pitiful damage on multitarget with AS at all, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Even on single target they're doing very respectable damage in my opinion (around 4% of my overall damage).

There's no way that San'layn can even fathom to keep up with AS at this point, especially since we'll probably want crit as our second stat anyway.

Edit: I'd also like to point out that AS scales with haste just the same as SI and San'layn, it's just that AS scales with crit as well. It's not even close to as strong as it was in WoD, but that's because it was a playstyle defining talent in WoD. Clarity of Power and AS were specs within a spec essentially, so they had to give big bonuses in order for them to be distinguishable enough from one another.

[Akx]

I assumed that's what he meant (on top of AS). Or maybe he's assuming the extra dots are somehow generating insanity baseline.

No I mean with AS - dot main target VT / SWP - off targets SWP only for Shadowy Apparitions.

[Smog]

AS is giving me more single target damage than San'layn is, and the Insanity generation is actually very significant and noticeable if you have a decent amount of crit. Shadowy Apparitions don't do pitiful damage on multitarget with AS at all, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Even on single target they're doing very respectable damage in my opinion (around 4% of my overall damage).

There's no way that San'layn can even fathom to keep up with AS at this point, especially since we'll probably want crit as our second stat anyway.

This is much more inline with my thoughts and expectations.

[Deleted]

Think about it and look at your dmg breakdowns in logs, vt is by far the biggest spell atm even on st it nearly breaks even with voidbolt, 20% extra dmg on that is massive.

The second thing is that there is no scenario existing which will make you want a single crit item ever. Haste is all around the best stat by large amount, it makes whole playstyle and fluidity better to the point it's required for you to have it on every single piece of the gear atleast in first tier. Then mastery is much better stat as well on pretty much 2+ targets and it scales with number of targets, it also has much better synergy with mass hysteria/stm (for which it's best stat surpassing even haste, we will most likely use it on every fight) and T19 ontop (voidbolt spam and dots giving insanity resulting in getting to voidform quickly not being any issue).

That makes us want haste/mastery combo on every piece of the gear and leaving crit gear to classes that have strong crit synergies (fire mages/destro) and by the time we can get AS "crit" set completed it will be irrelevant anyway. IDK maybe im wrong but I don't see AS doing much for us.

Looking at logs from last night, on Star Augur (ST fight), Sanlyan gave me around 3,5%-4% dmg, AS would give me around 1-1,2% and around 108 -128 insanity per 3 min and that's without StM that works much better with Sanlyan and 4 set that is also not crit friendly. I think people are overvaluing AS after the nerf to 4 insanity and buffs to VT (it was awesome at 10 insanity ofc). I guess we have to wait for simcraft or relase to get more hard evidence.

[davesignal]

AS is giving me more single target damage than San'layn is, and the Insanity generation is actually very significant and noticeable if you have a decent amount of crit. Shadowy Apparitions don't do pitiful damage on multitarget with AS at all, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Even on single target they're doing very respectable damage in my opinion (around 4% of my overall damage).

There's no way that San'layn can even fathom to keep up with AS at this point, especially since we'll probably want crit as our second stat anyway.

Moving an ability from ~2% of my damage to 4% of my damage just does not seem really impressive to me. I looked at my damage breakdown, sussed out that doubling my SA damage was a smaller DPS increase than increasing my VT damage by 20%, and then asked myself if felt the bump in insanity felt like it was a worthwhile tradeoff for a substantial damage increase.

I've tried both, I even tried AS with in excess of 30% crit, and going back to San'layn always seemed to produce better DPS for me. SI was always inconclusive because of how buggy the reset is right now.

[l33t]

Think about it and look at your dmg breakdowns in logs, vt is by far the biggest spell atm even on st it nearly breaks even with voidbolt, 20% extra dmg on that is massive.

The second thing is that there is no scenario existing which will make you want a single crit item ever. Haste is all around the best stat by large amount, it makes whole playstyle and fluidity better to the point it's required for you to have it on every single piece of the gear atleast in first tier. Then mastery is much better stat as well on pretty much 2+ targets and it scales with number of targets, it also has much better synergy with mass hysteria/stm (for which it's best stat surpassing even haste, we will most likely use it on every fight) and T19 ontop (voidbolt spam and dots giving insanity resulting in getting to voidform quickly not being any issue).

That makes us want haste/mastery combo on every piece of the gear and leaving crit gear to classes that have strong crit synergies (fire mages/destro) and by the time we can get AS "crit" set completed it will be irrelevant anyway. IDK maybe im wrong but I don't see AS doing much for us.

I feel kinda the same, to be honest. AS does not look impressive to me, neither by insanity gen, nor by its SA damage. Also, if I wanted to be rng bitch, I'd just go to nearest casino and start playing slot machine. Mechanics like insanity gains should be predetermined, not random.

(Would love though to have SI somehow fixed, dat instant blast is pure <3)

[Tanned]

AS is giving me more single target damage than San'layn is, and the Insanity generation is actually very significant and noticeable if you have a decent amount of crit. Shadowy Apparitions don't do pitiful damage on multitarget with AS at all, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Even on single target they're doing very respectable damage in my opinion (around 4% of my overall damage).

Can you give some logs? In my tests, my Shadowy Apparitions were about 2% of my single target damage (granted I was not running a storm of Crit).

[davesignal]

I feel kinda the same, to be honest. AS does not look impressive to me, neither by insanity gen, nor by its SA damage. Also, if I wanted to be rng bitch, I'd just go to nearest casino and start playing slot machine. Mechanics like insanity gains should be predetermined, not random.

(Would love though to have SI somehow fixed, dat instant blast is pure <3)

Yeah, that is the other thing: San'layn is eminently predictable, and rotational reliability ultimately produces more dependable results. It synergizes with Mass Hysteria, also, whereas AS doesn't really. SI, at least, synergizes with Sphere of Insanity.