Guess Jaina's still a fem-varian then.

[Jademist]

Lets not turn this into another "HORDE ARE EVIL, NO THEY'RE NOT, YES THEY ARE, NO THEY'RE NOT" thread please, that shit ends up nowhere.

I agree. I will stop here.

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I really like Jaina as a character, but at this point all I see for her is either becoming the typical manic raid boss, because she tries to vaporize OG on her own or something, OR she get's the magical totally irreversable amnesia (after an explosion, a almost-fatal wound etc.) and is rebooted as a good character.

So she becomes the WoW Revan? :P

[Trassk]

So she becomes the WoW Revan? :P

Now thats an idea that should be injected into the comic book nerdom of warcraft writers, I'd find that more appealing then a character flip flopping the way she has been.

[TheDestinatus]

Yes let's lump everyone in the same category. Let's forget that the initial Horde only followed Gul'dan because he seemed to be the only option at a better life. To them, what they did was not evil. It was a means to save their people, their friends, their families, their children. Let's also forget Thrall, the noble orc who tried to make peace with the Alliance so many times over but people like Varian just have an innate disgust towards them (for good reason but still, that's old blood). Tauren are not idiots. And they're more peaceful than the humans are. The Blood Elves had reasons to mistrust the humans. The High Elves joined the Alliance of Lordaeron during the Second and Third wars. Do we forget the Elven priests and sorcerers that aided the humans and the dwarves? Garithos was a major power in in the Alliance. Him treating the elves like dirt was practically like the entire Alliance treating the elves like dirt when all the elves wanted to do was aid the humans. These were a people who had just lost everything. The Forsaken are not abominations just because they are undead and their minds are of their own. Some betrayed the Horde during the Wrath Gate incident but not all of them. Heck, Sylvanas led an assault against her own people to try to undo the horrors they had done and many Frosaken were with her on that.

The Horde is a great group because that's what they are, outcasts and misfits who found a home amongst each other when no one else would have them.

Many of the Forsaken wanted to go back to the Alliance but they were rejected because of what they were rather than who they were. Many of the would have fought and died for the Alliance all over again but prejudice, such as your own, prevented them from doing that.

Wrong wrong wrong, best option for a better life. What a joke. They accepted the power to conquer worlds purely for that reason, they didn't even care what the reason was. They are bloodthirsty cavebeasts, Draenor looked like it does in WoD so they didn't need something better. They didn't need a means to save them because for all they knew they didn't need saving. None of them even knew about risks of not accepting, they accepted it without hesitation the first time it was offered. They than proceeded to murder the majority of the Draenei population, than through the portal to continue the slaughter. They should be treated like the demon worshippers they are.

Thrall was raised by Humans, everything he learnt about nobility came from them. The portion of your life that determines who you are, 0-25ish was spent as a slave. Pretending hes a noble Orc is hilarious. He only tried to make peace with the Humans because he liked a Human woman once and had spent his entire life up until the point he escaped engaging Humans on a daily basis. If he had been raised by Orcs he would have been just like the rest of them.

Tauren are idiots, they've basically contributed nothing to the story ever. No leader of theirs has ever matter, their troops are just additional men for the army.

High/Blood Elves basing all their future Human relationships on one General who wasn't a major power, he assumed the position of power because their was no one left and is like saying Obama was president once, lets never be Allies with the US again... Its how children think. Never mind that the Humans had been fighting with them for thousands of years, had a city of magic that basically acted like a centre of diplomacy between the two species, no, lets join the Orcs who just spent the last 20 years killing us off. Yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrpp. Not to mention the Trolls, the species we hate the most.

The forsaken are abominations, having a mind back doesn't change what you are and lets say just for saying sake that you live and let live undead until they disappear over time. Sylvanas has been defiling more people to bolster the size of the undead army. Who knows what proportion of the Forsaken are risen Gilneans at this point, after all she lost a lot of people getting into Gilneas so she corrupted them to keep up her numbers. Shes just as bad as Arthas. Not to mention it doesn't even make sense, the forsaken as supposed to have free will so any Gilneans she raised should have turned upon her, instead they all just mindlessly jumped ship and started killing their own. If they don't have free will than they aren't forsaken, just puppet undead.

[Wondercrab]

Bleh. So she's continuing to be yet another tired iteration of the most generic and overused character archetype Warcraft has to offer. The Dreadlord theory is really the only way to salvage her at this point.

[Deleted]

I gave up on Jaina after I read the spoilers long ago. Thought that in War Crimes we finally got back on track with her, but no. We need to indulge the Alliance zealots fantasy about her being an oppressed character.

[Aeula]

She's mentally unstable. What do you expect?

[Florena]

Jaina's not a fem varian. Varian started off hostile to the horde, but through character development became the man we saw in MoP. He had a character arc in one direction.

Jaina's story has just been a mess because blizz can't seem to make up its mind on where to take her, possibly too many cooks in the kitchen. Even Garrosh's descent was largely consistent with only the stonetalon thing standing out among his fall from grace.

[TyrannicalPuppy]

Jaina is smarter than that, she would know where her rage should be directed, and that's not the horde. Especially when the burning legion just invaded the place and now controls the tomb of sargeras.

You can't outsmart PTSD or bipolar disorder. It's really not that simple.

[Deleted]

Severely disappointed when I saw this. They took a good character and made her extremely simple. "I hate horde, despite it being one guy who is fucked up and despite the actual horde HELPING us kill him, all horde are bad."

Jaina would never be as stupid as this, they really messed up this character.

Jaina should create her own faction.

The Horde fail to keep their extremists under control.

I hope they don't assassinate her character.

I hate to break it to people, but the power of friendship alone doesn't win in the end. Power does.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Wrong wrong wrong, best option for a better life. What a joke. They accepted the power to conquer worlds purely for that reason, they didn't even care what the reason was. They are bloodthirsty cavebeasts, Draenor looked like it does in WoD so they didn't need something better. They didn't need a means to save them because for all they knew they didn't need saving. None of them even knew about risks of not accepting, they accepted it without hesitation the first time it was offered. They than proceeded to murder the majority of the Draenei population, than through the portal to continue the slaughter. They should be treated like the demon worshippers they are.

Thrall was raised by Humans, everything he learnt about nobility came from them. The portion of your life that determines who you are, 0-25ish was spent as a slave. Pretending hes a noble Orc is hilarious. He only tried to make peace with the Humans because he liked a Human woman once and had spent his entire life up until the point he escaped engaging Humans on a daily basis. If he had been raised by Orcs he would have been just like the rest of them.

Tauren are idiots, they've basically contributed nothing to the story ever. No leader of theirs has ever matter, their troops are just additional men for the army.

High/Blood Elves basing all their future Human relationships on one General who wasn't a major power, he assumed the position of power because their was no one left and is like saying Obama was president once, lets never be Allies with the US again... Its how children think. Never mind that the Humans had been fighting with them for thousands of years, had a city of magic that basically acted like a centre of diplomacy between the two species, no, lets join the Orcs who just spent the last 20 years killing us off. Yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrpp. Not to mention the Trolls, the species we hate the most.

The forsaken are abominations, having a mind back doesn't change what you are and lets say just for saying sake that you live and let live undead until they disappear over time. Sylvanas has been defiling more people to bolster the size of the undead army. Who knows what proportion of the Forsaken are risen Gilneans at this point, after all she lost a lot of people getting into Gilneas so she corrupted them to keep up her numbers. Shes just as bad as Arthas. Not to mention it doesn't even make sense, the forsaken as supposed to have free will so any Gilneans she raised should have turned upon her, instead they all just mindlessly jumped ship and started killing their own. If they don't have free will than they aren't forsaken, just puppet undead.

Oh boy oh boy, retard alert.

1st read rise of the horde, it's obvious you haven't because you only have about half the story. You also don't take into the world the orcs live on, everything wanted to kill them already, they never had peaceful lives, and the demon specifically with the title "deciver" tricked them with their own culture and perverted it. They drank the blood at the end of the road of damnation, not the start.

2. Read lord of the clans, because thrall learned near jack shit about nobility from the humans. If taretha didn't exsist he would have grown up hating the humans, and he still has a problem with any orc in human chains (note his encounter with varian in soO)

You also hilariously forgot what clan he came from, the frost wolves were the most level-headed and peaceful of all the orc clans. If he was raised by them he would have turned out fine.

3. Calling tauren idiots just reinforces the fact that you have no fucking clue what you are even talking about.

4. I'll ask you a simple question, are you unable or unwilling to read or watch videos? Because garithos was far from the only human that screwed the elves over. The kirin tor says hello. Not to mention the alliance once again sends spies and sabetouers to Quel'Thalas in burning crusade. Basically check yourself before you start hamfisting the keyboard and filling your posts with headcanon. And P.s using the humans as meat sheilds not the same as "fighting with them for thousands of years" not to mention f
they stuck around in Dalaran before because human mages are idiots and without guidence would have demons crawling all over their ass.

5. Once again you pollute the lore section with head canon. Read up on ask CDev or actually play through the forsaken are lvl 1-18. Because it's obvious you never have done either of those.

Tl'dr , learn your shit.

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I gave up on Jaina after I read the spoilers long ago. Thought that in War Crimes we finally got back on track with her, but no. We need to indulge the Alliance zealots fantasy about her being an oppressed character.

I still have hopes she stops acting so crazy and settles down a bit. That or send her off to the violet hold to cool off for a month or too. In character, my blood elf mage would want her dead. But for the sake of the alliance story, they don need another failure of a character like tyrande.

[Katie45]

I think with Jaina everyone is jumping the gun with her because everyone thinks she is all knowing like us, she isn't for all she knows, the horde left the alliance to die on broken front, adding betryal # whatever it is at this point, I have lost count of how many times, the horde lost "Control" Of a portion of there army that then goes and attacks the alliance.

[Fenderxx]

I may be the only one, but I feel like Jaina's in game personality is more on the realistic side. I mean, the horde did bomb her city after she has been trying to work toward peace.. or at least a peacefully co-existence. You can argue all day that many of the actions of the Horde under Garrosh do not reflect the feelings of the Horde as a whole... but to the victim.. that rings a bit hollow. Acts of war and violence or more often meet with more war and violence. I am not saying it's right.. just that I feel it is more realistic then the Jaina we see in War Crimes.
I do not have a problem with War Crimes and enjoy Golden's work.. just my opinion.

[Kallisto]

High/Blood Elves basing all their future Human relationships on one General who wasn't a major power, he assumed the position of power because their was no one left and is like saying Obama was president once, lets never be Allies with the US again... Its how children think. Never mind that the Humans had been fighting with them for thousands of years, had a city of magic that basically acted like a centre of diplomacy between the two species, no, lets join the Orcs who just spent the last 20 years killing us off. Yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrpp. Not to mention the Trolls, the species we hate the most.

So the whole having negotiations with the alliance at the start of the Blood Elf start zone only to find out the Alliance reps who were supposed to be supportive turned out to be sabotaging everything the Blood Elves need to be a kingdom. All of which happen BEFORE the Blood elves joined the horde.

I think with Jaina everyone is jumping the gun with her because everyone thinks she is all knowing like us, she isn't for all she knows, the horde left the alliance to die on broken front, adding betryal # whatever it is at this point, I have lost count of how many times, the horde lost "Control" Of a portion of there army that then goes and attacks the alliance.

She was in hearing range of the horde. She could hear what was going on. What were the horde to do. Stay and die in a losing battle?

[Katie45]

So the whole having negotiations with the alliance at the start of the Blood Elf start zone only to find out the Alliance reps who were supposed to be supportive turned out to be sabotaging everything the Blood Elves need to be a kingdom. All of which happen BEFORE the Blood elves joined the horde.



She was in hearing range of the horde. She could hear what was going on. What were the horde to do. Stay and die in a losing battle?

She wasn't the horde where up on a ridge and maybe. Thats what the alliance did, but I am not here to argue who is right, I am to tell you how it looked from Jaina's point of view.

[Friendlyimmolation]

She wasn't the horde where up on a ridge and maybe. Thats what the alliance did, but I am not here to argue who is right, I am to tell you how it looked from Jaina's point of view.

I mean Sylvanas does yell down at varian to kill guldan

[Fenderxx]

So the whole having negotiations with the alliance at the start of the Blood Elf start zone only to find out the Alliance reps who were supposed to be supportive turned out to be sabotaging everything the Blood Elves need to be a kingdom. All of which happen BEFORE the Blood elves joined the horde.



She was in hearing range of the horde. She could hear what was going on. What were the horde to do. Stay and die in a losing battle?

Lok'tar O Shit Run!

[VirginiaIsForLovers]

Delete your signature please.

[FelPlague]

oh look another "jaina is horrible" thread, meanwhile ignoring everything the horde has done to her, and how much trauma she has gone through her life, but no, there is no reason she would be unstable, or in any way hate the horde, sure, yeah, no shes just a bitch

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I think with Jaina everyone is jumping the gun with her because everyone thinks she is all knowing like us, she isn't for all she knows, the horde left the alliance to die on broken front, adding betryal # whatever it is at this point, I have lost count of how many times, the horde lost "Control" Of a portion of there army that then goes and attacks the alliance.

exactly, everyone goes "wtf she blamed all the blood elves for using her city to commit war crimes when it was only garroshes blood elves" yes... we know that... but she dident... as idk, she cant do the quest on the horde side?

[KyrtF]

Technically the majority Jaina's umbrage is at allowing the Sunreavers back into Dalaran, although she still holds the Horde as responsible for both the events leading up to the Purge of Dalaran as well as for Theramore's destruction. Perhaps the Horde's "betrayal" at the Broken Shore has returned her to her warmongering ways, I can't really say. Things between her and Kalec must be strained as well, since he votes to re-admit the Horde back into Dalaran and allows Aethas to resume his place as their leader (which I assume also means Aethas rejoining the Kirin Tor).

Regardless - even **I** am sick to death of the Alliance forgives everything nonsense.

Especially since it has again cost the Horde their own capital city. Why couldn't we get a nice Blood Elven base somewhere?

This type of writing simply runs down the Alliance and makes them appear stupid and weak. It makes them hopeless enemies and it makes the Horde look worse as we keep being forgiven. We exist at the sufferance of the Alliance but we aren't worth the trouble.

Not a feeling I like.

I would much prefer that Dalaran not be used - we don't need a rehashed safe zone. Give it to the Alliance for their own stories.

But I would have loved to have seen the Horde especially get their own base city...we haven't really had one. We had Shattrath (Draenei) and Dalaran (Human) and Orgimmar (Orc) and a Temple (Pandaren) and our garrison....but no real Horde base city.

[Dug]

What even happens at the Broken Shore exactly that makes her think the Horde "betrayed" the Alliance? I've played both sides and while Horde cover the flank they get over run, while Alliance take the main assault they're also overrun. I know the cinematic isn't in yet but is there something the Horde do that makes her think they "betrayed" them?