Protection legion Discussion

[Deleted]

Something else I didn't realize: Versatility does not increase your attack power, only your damage done (it works this way on live, too). Meaning Versatility does not increase the size of your Ignore Pain.

Fun

Doesn't it increase healing and absorbs too?

[Cylunaria]

Doesn't it increase healing and absorbs too?

Yes and it it works on ignore pain.

[Warriorsarri]

Does somebody know if you can stack relics on one trait in your Artifact weapon? I've been searching for this information from the forums.

Yes you can. Max you can get is 6/6 in a trait, by having speced 3/3 in it + 3 relics that buff it.

[Ashenia]

Something else I didn't realize: Versatility does not increase your attack power, only your damage done (it works this way on live, too). Meaning Versatility does not increase the size of your Ignore Pain.

Fun

It actually does, if you have PvP trinket you can test it.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Doesn't it increase healing and absorbs too?

It does. It should effect the size of IP because of this.

[Deleted]

Did some testing with AM today, with a bit of luck i could push Impending Victory + Last Stand, a lone IV and after that an IV + LS again.
Being able to push IV's + LV's faster made it possible to reach Uber60.

Just a neat little thing since i kinda disliked AM on live.

[Beardyface]

Yes and it it works on ignore pain.

I'll have to re-test. Was getting no result. Thanks.

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Bah, my bad. Versatility does indeed affect Ignore Pain. Not sure what went wrong with that earlier testing, but it worked just now when I re-tested.

[Alaexaender]

So, I'm not on beta, so I was only able to see things for myself now that PTR is out. If I calculated things right, without including devastate resets, then we need 50% haste to get 100% uptime on shield block. Please tell me if this is wrong. This is assuming heavy repercussions. I believe this is doable, though I cannot say for sure as I am not on beta.

Rage, I can't test. But, once we get a 4 set from nighthold, this should help significantly. Having huge amounts of haste will also increase rage, so we can only hope it will scale us to being decent.

For healing, we need to take what we can. As warriors, our main point is to not take as much damage as the other tanks, as always. So if we can get just a little bit of healing, then it shouldn't be bad. One source seems to be the bloodletting manacles. 6% hp healed from an ignore pain, 1% from shield block. Its not much, but lets take what we can get. We could also get sources of leech, though I'm not sure if they'll be significant enough to help. The important thing though is the second sentence of this paragraph. We're going to need to rely on the healers, like blizzard wants. But, we should be able to minimize damage taken, so the overall heals we require is still the same as every other tank.

So, how bad are things? Looks decent, really. Without stats, we're going to be useless. But once we get to a decent level of gear, we'll be able to stand on our own.

[deadmanfred]

So I've been messing around with Inspiring Presence a bit. I've found that with 2 prot warriors standing around all the players near me have 2 Inspiring presence buffs. I would assume they get 1 buff per warrior, of course there are never that many warriors around. Also I haven't tested if the healing actually stacks or not... but ahhh all prot warrior raid anyone?

Also what I find to be super interesting is that versatility in fact seems to be INCREASING the healing of Inspiring Presence! This does seem logical as it counts as healing you do. I literally just found this out so I haven't had anyone help me test it, but on the healing dummy it's definitely working. I pop the ring and the healing of Inspiring Presence gets about 85% more healing. (i.e. the 85% versatility added from the ring) I'm not sure how much damage the dummy is doing to itself so I can't really start the math on this. However What I'm thinking is that it's only increasing the healing that is done after damage and not a flat % increase to Inspiring Presence. As in you have 3% vers and 3% from inspiring Presence and say a dps does 100 damage which should heal him for 3 from Inspiring Presence and an additional .09 from your vers. However if it's the other way around, 100 damage = 6 healing, then we have a decent raid healing CD with our ring... lol.

http://imgur.com/fE6pl2s

[Cylunaria]

So I've been messing around with Inspiring Presence a bit. I've found that with 2 prot warriors standing around all the players near me have 2 Inspiring presence buffs. I would assume they get 1 buff per warrior, of course there are never that many warriors around. Also I haven't tested if the healing actually stacks or not... but ahhh all prot warrior raid anyone?

Also what I find to be super interesting is that versatility in fact seems to be INCREASING the healing of Inspiring Presence! This does seem logical as it counts as healing you do. I literally just found this out so I haven't had anyone help me test it, but on the healing dummy it's definitely working. I pop the ring and the healing of Inspiring Presence gets about 85% more healing. (i.e. the 85% versatility added from the ring) I'm not sure how much damage the dummy is doing to itself so I can't really start the math on this. However What I'm thinking is that it's only increasing the healing that is done after damage and not a flat % increase to Inspiring Presence. As in you have 3% vers and 3% from inspiring Presence and say a dps does 100 damage which should heal him for 3 from Inspiring Presence and an additional .09 from your vers. However if it's the other way around, 100 damage = 6 healing, then we have a decent raid healing CD with our ring... lol.

Time for Versatility support warrior builds! PogChamp

[Invrlose]

First of all, the bolded part answers your own question.

Secondly, the issue with IP is mostly its AP scaling. Based on the last few expansions, AP does not grow at the same rate as max health. Basing IP off that means we'll get worse and worse shields, as compared to the content current at the time. Unless there are specific changes to alter that (bad) or we game the system with AP trinkets (worse).

Warriors are always concerned with scaling. It has never worked for us, always being off in one direction or the other.

hue hue lets bold something and then make an obscure statement like "bolded part answers ur question"
"Warriors are always concerned with scaling" is a laughable statement at best.

With mastery, strength, bonus armor, etc. all increasing attack power, warriors will be fine, and it makes it so that stamina trinkets aren't stupid overpowered. Stop being an alarmist.

[Cylunaria]

hue hue lets bold something and then make an obscure statement like "bolded part answers ur question"
"Warriors are always concerned with scaling" is a laughable statement at best.

With mastery, strength, bonus armor, etc. all increasing attack power, warriors will be fine, and it makes it so that stamina trinkets aren't stupid overpowered. Stop being an alarmist.

Funny, nice to see you keep up with anything related to the expansion and do theorycrafting. Since.... you know, bonus armor is gone, jewelry doesn't give mainstat anymore so you can't get AP from them; meaning we have less sources of AP than any other xpac. You wanna talk more like you know what you are talking about to someone who has actually been participating in the thread and understands prot warrior? A lot of people who like the idea of tanking to be about mitigating damage as best as possible, it's disheartening when your best options defensively are offensive trinkets...

Have you played the game since wrath on? Yeah, scaling has been unfavorable for warriors for most of the time in the last 3+ expansions at top levels of play.

Also thought the part he bolded as a problem was pretty self explanatory.

[Marok]

So, I'm not on beta, so I was only able to see things for myself now that PTR is out. If I calculated things right, without including devastate resets, then we need 50% haste to get 100% uptime on shield block. Please tell me if this is wrong. This is assuming heavy repercussions. I believe this is doable, though I cannot say for sure as I am not on beta.

Close. Accounting for Devastate resets, we need about 60% haste for 100% uptime with HR. See here.

[Agromat]

Also what I find to be super interesting is that versatility in fact seems to be INCREASING the healing of Inspiring Presence! This does seem logical as it counts as healing you do.

This is super interesting. Neat.

However What I'm thinking is that it's only increasing the healing that is done after damage and not a flat % increase to Inspiring Presence. As in you have 3% vers and 3% from inspiring Presence and say a dps does 100 damage which should heal him for 3 from Inspiring Presence and an additional .09 from your vers. However if it's the other way around, 100 damage = 6 healing, then we have a decent raid healing CD with our ring... lol.

It's the former. Versatility increases healing by your versatility percentage, so in your example the player would heal for 3.09.

And it's too early to tell which tanks scale best yet. At worst, Monks and Demon Hunters will be in the same boat with us.

[Alaexaender]

Close. Accounting for Devastate resets, we need about 60% haste for 100% uptime with HR.

My bad. Was using 12 as the shield block CD. Thanks for the correction. How hard is it to get 60% haste?

[Drkreven]

I am curious guys, but did any of you notice the change to two of our Artifact traits today ? I was just looking over the beta changes for the Protection Warrior in this build and I could not help but notice that the wording of Reflective Plating and Dragon Scales now clearly reads that they no longer grant any rage from the proc of these abilities. I know many on this forum have enjoyed coming on here and telling me my posts are dramatic... so that being said. I am curious what people will come up with this time to justify what seems like was a direct nerf to our already poor rage mechanic that many have been fighting so hard against thus far. It seems that if this is indeed a nerf to our rage generation then not only was I correct that they do not care what we have to say, but they truthfully have absolutely no concern for well or poorly we are balanced going into Legion. If I am wrong someone correct me by all means, but that is how the new tooltips read, and somehow I feel any change that further gimps our rage generation can hardly be seen as a good thing.

[maverick1625]

I've noticed those changes, was like mm wtf, but then I noticed Battle Cry now generates 100 rage? Saw that on the updated talent calculator. Wondering how come none of these warrior changes were mentioned in the notes, or are they just hoping we don't notice? mmmm

[Cylunaria]

I am curious guys, but did any of you notice the change to two of our Artifact traits today ? I was just looking over the beta changes for the Protection Warrior in this build and I could not help but notice that the wording of Reflective Plating and Dragon Scales now clearly reads that they no longer grant any rage from the proc of these abilities. I know many on this forum have enjoyed coming on here and telling me my posts are dramatic... so that being said. I am curious what people will come up with this time to justify what seems like was a direct nerf to our already poor rage mechanic that many have been fighting so hard against thus far. It seems that if this is indeed a nerf to our rage generation then not only was I correct that they do not care what we have to say, but they truthfully have absolutely no concern for well or poorly we are balanced going into Legion. If I am wrong someone correct me by all means, but that is how the new tooltips read, and somehow I feel any change that further gimps our rage generation can hardly be seen as a good thing.

Honestly, it's upsetting yes.

That being said; warriors are doing pretty damn good from what we have seen so far. early mythic testing and Mythic+ dungeons have shown warriors to be pretty fucking strong. It all comes down to smart use of ignore pain at good value health amounts for never surrender (I honestly think they should just change never surrender, because it's hard to balance without it being too strong or useless). Despite our (yes even mine) complaining, warrior is certainly strong for content that they undergear or are equivalently geared for when comparing to other tanks. They are sturdy, but definitely can't live forever. Basically "good but not great". At the end of a tier would we be as high though? We don't know yet, farm content probably want tanks more "independent".

My complaints, and the reason I am dissuaded from playing protection warrior currently are as follows:

1. The playstyle is a deviation from live prot that feels like a step back.*
2. We have a severe lack of strong raid utility to use for the benefit of the group, not just ourselves.
3. Gearing up doesn't feel fun, I get to do less*
4. Our artifact tree is a mess compared to some (though not complete trash).
5. I can't stand how we've gotten no communication on their thought process.

*I am aware a couple of these reasons are personal opinion. Some people might like the new model, I like some of it. Haste is my favorite stat, it makes anything i'm playing feel faster and gives me more change to actual gameplay than other stats. I really reeeeeeally dislike not being in control of my resource generation though, and feel as though it really squishes the difference between the skill ceiling and the skill floor.

I personally value utility very highly, and despite having played warrior in the past regardless I feel it's time to change because of it. We've gone from utility kings to having nothing truly worthwhile, and other classes have not only what we had, but better in a lot of cases (i'm looking at you demon hunter).

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I've noticed those changes, was like mm wtf, but then I noticed Battle Cry now generates 100 rage? Saw that on the updated talent calculator. Wondering how come none of these warrior changes were mentioned in the notes, or are they just hoping we don't notice? mmmm

um... you didn't click on prot? that's been a talent for fury for a long time now on beta/alpha. Not coming to prot though.

[maverick1625]

um... you didn't click on prot? that's been a talent for fury for a long time now on beta/alpha. Not coming to prot though.


....??? Of course i've clicked on prot -.- Hence I've never noticed it generates 100 rage, it now says it does.

[FenixAU]

um... you didn't click on prot? that's been a talent for fury for a long time now on beta/alpha. Not coming to prot though.


....??? Of course i've clicked on prot -.- Hence I've never noticed it generates 100 rage, it now says it does.

It doesn't generate 100 rage for Prot.