Anyone else not "feeling" it?

[Nihilan]

It seems like most casters have a bit of a ramp up time till they start really doing damage. It's worst in Shadow and Affliction Warlock it seems. Melee seems to own the role of opening burst currently. Actually is there a damage meters mod that works on the PTR? It seems like in general Melee just to fuck tons more damage.

Skada works on beta. Dunno if it works on ptr.

[Hexxidecimal]

I was on the fence with stating Meta was the staple of the spec. In truth Demo has had Meta longer than it did not. It went from being a "kill everything fast in 30 secs" button to a "Edgy Emo OCD" button press so the identity was all miffed up. The point though is not to mourn the playstyle we've all been used to for niegh over a decade and equate that to lack of class fantasy; but instead to see these new changes as a recalibration of said ideas that they should have been all along.

Before Legion=What a game designer considered how a class/spec worked
Legion=How the class/spec works in the fantasy world, with support for making that experience closer to its intended purpose.

Nail on the head. I 100% agree. I have played since WoW beta. Vanilla beta that is. Now I am not saying this to give the impression that I am super OG and what I say is right. Only to show that I have experienced all the changes. In Vanilla the classes were pretty unique. Specs nudged you in certain directions, having you focus on certain aspects of your classes toolkit rather than defining the class. This slowly changed. As Talent trees simply got larger, you became more and more specialized. A few pruning of talents here and there attempted to nip the issue of over complex talent trees in the bud. Mostly it worked. Along comes Cata and mists. The idea of specializations is introduced. We still feel that you are, for example, a warrior first and protection second. Now in legion it feels as if your class is little more than a theme with a few shared abilities between the different specs and your spec is really the defining factor.

Basically what I am saying is that Cata and Mists specialization and talent changes felt like this odd mid point between the idea of Class is definitive, spec simply tweaks game play to Spec is definitive, class is your thematic choice. I took long breaks in both mists and cata, playing at release and then coming back much later on. Same with WoD. In all these cases it was always a jarring return. It was like WoW didn't know how it wanted to treat classes and it was confused.

I am actually quite happy with how legion is handling things. While it's vastly different than what I started with in WoW I feel it's overall much better, much more defined. The classes and specs all feel very unique (hopefully the will all be effective) and defined without useless buttons and abiliteis from a time when that wasn't the case. In Vanilla you effectively had 9 classes. Each class had full access to all of that classes abilities outside of talent specific abilities. Class is what defined you. In Legion it's more like you have 35 classes in 12 flavors. Mists and Cata really felt weird were you ended up being a, for instance a prot paladin who could only effectively do prot paladin things but had a bunch of non prot paladin buttons and jankey mechanics that occasionally allowed that paladin to push those buttons making them not completely pointless. It was odd. I like legions set up better.

- - - Updated - - -

Skada works on beta. Dunno if it works on ptr.

Ah thank you. Admittedly this could just be a PTR, no artifacts issue. I know in PvP melee are pretty ridiculous but that is do to the templating I believe. Anyhow, thanks I will give it a try.

[Saracens]

Details works way better than Skada or Recount. http://www.wowinterface.com/download...egionBeta.html

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Yeah, Ret paladins are being turned into shitty Arms warriors. I just don't fucking get it, they say they want us to be different from other classes so they remove our execute...then they give us fucking colossus smash. Fuck whoever is leading up Ret design, fuck them with a rusty spoon while refusing to give them a tetanus shot until they remove the atrocity that is colossus smash from Ret.

[Nethlord]

Details works way better than Skada or Recount. http://www.wowinterface.com/download...egionBeta.html

Not conflating the statement, but how and in what way? I've used Skada for years (prefer it to Recount due to how lightweight it is). I'm not married to the meter in anyway so what makes it a better choice? Faster sample time? More options? More information quicker?

I guess I would like the details...about details?

Bad pun...i'm sorry.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, Ret paladins are being turned into shitty Arms warriors. I just don't fucking get it, they say they want us to be different from other classes so they remove our execute...then they give us fucking colossus smash. Fuck whoever is leading up Ret design, fuck them with a rusty spoon while refusing to give them a tetanus shot until they remove the atrocity that is colossus smash from Ret.

Hey, so you're at an 11 here and I need you to come down to a 6. A little overboard with the sentiment.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Exactly, could not have formulated that better by myself.

WoD did this to me as well, now I don't see any classes that look fun. I liked everything except for Priest, DK, Monk and Warrior in MoP. WoD rolls in and I can add Hunter, Shaman, Mage, and Warlock to the list of classes that aren't fun to play. This far into Legion beta and I see no class that I even want to play.

[Saracens]

Not conflating the statement, but how and in what way? I've used Skada for years (prefer it to Recount due to how lightweight it is). I'm not married to the meter in anyway so what makes it a better choice? Faster sample time? More options? More information quicker?

I guess I would like the details...about details?

Bad pun...i'm sorry.

It's got Recount's setup (UI so to speak) with Skada's depth of info, and it's lighter than both. From my experience, it's realtime is as good as logs. I really like it. Just my 2 pennies though, a personal recommendation if you will.

[Hexxidecimal]

WoD did this to me as well, now I don't see any classes that look fun. I liked everything except for Priest, DK, Monk and Warrior in MoP. WoD rolls in and I can add Hunter, Shaman, Mage, and Warlock to the list of classes that aren't fun to play. This far into Legion beta and I see no class that I even want to play.

This is honestly so weird to me. The number of classes I want to play is higher than it has ever been. After trying them out on the PTR (not complete data I know) I was pretty convinced of it. I love the changes Enhancement Shaman. For the first time ever in 12 years I want to play Rogue (outlaw specifically), I am dusting off my shadow priest because insanity was way more fun a mechanic that I even expected, was dubious about survival hunters but the realized I really liked their play style and flavor, Unholy DK honestly feels better to me now than it literally ever has, Demon Hunter...duh, While Prot hasn't changed substantially the new animations are smexy and he will be my go too tank, Druid tanks feel like tanks now and not just dancing bears...etc etc. I love the changes Enhancement Shaman. For the first time ever in 12 years I want to play Rogue (outlaw specifically), I am dusting off my shadow priest because insanity was way more fun a mechanic that I even expected, was dubious about survival hunters but the realized I really liked their play style and flavor, Unholy DK honestly feels better to me now than it literally ever has, Demon Hunter...duh, While Prot hasn't changed substantially the new animations are smexy and he will be my go too tank, Druid tanks feel like tanks now and not just dancing bears, while the frost rotation is weird now (they are fixing it it sounds like) glacial spike feels really good to push...etc etc. Now my only worry is how the hell am I going to grind AP on 5+ toons.

[Durgtok]

This is not a "I quit" or "I unsubscribe" thread. I would've posted this on wow forums but I feel like it would eventually turn into that, so I came here for an actual discussion.

Legion is shaping up to be a very good xpac, I'd say 90% of it's content is well designed and will be incredibly fun to play. The story and questing is fantastic, with Suramar being an amazing zone, and all the new tech is quite cool. However a lot of this is marred by the quality of class mechanics, feel, and gameplay. It honestly does drag down most of the experience for me.

Prune 2.0 was far more severe than the first one, and really took away class identity for a lot of classes I love. The two most prominent examples would be fury warrior and frost DK. I'm gonna nitpick at a few things here to convey a general idea, try not to focus on the "nitpicking", but rather the problem that all these things create.

Fury lacks any stances, rage management, utility, or significant burst outside bladestorm. Blizzard has said they wanted fury to be more consistent damage, whereas arms is bursty. This to me is completely backwards, and mix that with the lack of class-defining abilities and any real mechanic to think about, it'll feel "watered down", and ruin the rest of your experience. Also, pooling ALL of your rage into one ability reminds me of the 2005 blizzcon panel for classes. They said something like "It wasn't fun because you were just using your abilities like a metronome, there wasn't a lot of choice or any reason to NOT hit those buttons so we added a rage bar". Legion effectively removes the need to worry about rage, by having only one ability that costs rage.

Frost overall "works" in a dps-rotation sense, as does fury. But really that's all it feels like its built around, a raid boss rotation fixed around a frost theme. Runes are condensed into 1, blood/unholy abilities removed, necromany-themed abilities effectively gone. Not even something cool like stealing souls, similar to what Arthas does.

What I'm trying to get it as Blizzard decided to completely rework classes, but instead reworked specs, which really ruined class identity. I don't feel like a warrior without stances and rage management, imo they should design around a class first then have a spec buff a certain part of that class. There's no reason to not have any sort of necromancy or control over souls as a frost *death knight*.

I could keep ranting and nitpicking for days, you might disagree with some points, but what it comes down to is classes are your gateway into the world. If they don't feel right, and if they aren't engaging enough to keep the player interested, then everything else in the game becomes just as boring. There have been plenty of threads against the prune, with MASSIVE amounts of upvotes and posts, but it doesn't seem like they're changing direction for Legion.

Does anyone else feel like this? Or am I just being really stubborn with change?

I want to say you're just being stubborn/afraid of change. Classes and specs change a lot in every expansion, and the game always manages to still be fun. (Even WoD was a lot of fun.) Everyone always rages at the current expansion, it's inescapable. Everyone always freaks out about their class changing into things they're not used to. Can't escape it. In the end though, it'll still be fun. Hell, you even said that basically every aspect of the game sounds awesome, except for the changes to your favored classes.. If that doesn't tell you something, then I don't know what will. I'm pretty positive you'll get used to it, get over it, and still love the expansion. Try not to dwell on the "scary" changes, but instead embrace them with open arms. Would your fury warrior give up and skulk away in defeat if he/she was forced to change their fighting style for some reason? NO! They'd grit their teeth, charge back into battle, and crush as many demon skulls as they could. Take a lesson from your character, F1reheart. Don't be a coward.

[Nihilan]

Details works way better than Skada or Recount. http://www.wowinterface.com/download...egionBeta.html

I use Details on live but the last time i tried it on beta it didnt work. That was probably a month ago or more.

[anon5123]

Yeah, classes have been ability pruned even more...kinda sad. As a Disc priest, I don't even have all of my action bar slots filled.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

(Even WoD was a lot of fun.)

Well now I know to disregard the rest of your post...

[Durgtok]

Well now I know to disregard the rest of your post...

You played the game to max level? Possible on more than one character? And you didn't have any fun? I'm calling a big fat stinky bullshit on that one.

[TheDestinatus]

It could just be the ridiculously long patch talking but I'm pretty much over the game entirely. Log in mechanically to make gold from the garrisions which takes about 30min a day and thats it except for the 30min it takes us to kill Manno and Archimonde on a thursday. The way they distorted the lore yet again for broken isles has been a turn off for me, adding yet another non existent race to fill the "oh look new stuff" quota, no evidence of any of the stuff that happened their during WC2 or WC3. Reworking classes yet again, I mean don't hate all the class changes but at some point they have to understand that people play a particular class because they like it how it is and changing it every 2 years dramatically just sucks all the fun out of it eventually. Been playing this game for so long that I feel I should really try and see the game out until its end but I honestly don't even care about it anymore. Story makes about as much sense and has about as much adult warlike content as Narnia.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It could just be the ridiculously long patch talking but I'm pretty much over the game entirely. Log in mechanically to make gold from the garrisions which takes about 30min a day and thats it except for the 30min it takes us to kill Manno and Archimonde on a thursday. The way they distorted the lore yet again for broken isles has been a turn off for me, adding yet another non existent race to fill the "oh look new stuff" quota, no evidence of any of the stuff that happened their during WC2 or WC3. Reworking classes yet again, I mean don't hate all the class changes but at some point they have to understand that people play a particular class because they like it how it is and changing it every 2 years dramatically just sucks all the fun out of it eventually. Been playing this game for so long that I feel I should really try and see the game out until its end but I honestly don't even care about it anymore. Story makes about as much sense and has about as much adult warlike content as Narnia.

You sound incredibly bitter and bored. Lore is better then ever. I can get the Class design stuff but the lore? It's more driving then WoD was. By a mile anyways.

[Saracens]

I use Details on live but the last time i tried it on beta it didnt work. That was probably a month ago or more.

That link is for the BETA specific addon.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

You played the game to max level? Possible on more than one character? And you didn't have any fun? I'm calling a big fat stinky bullshit on that one.

I got 4 characters to 100, that wasn't fun. That was a miserable soul-sucking experience after the first time. The first one wasn't even particularly fun, I did enjoy it the first time around but I wouldn't call it fun. I found it as fun as looking at a painting, it may be enjoyable but that doesn't make it fun for me.

[Frozenbeef]

I love the new specs, i literally spam 3 buttons on every class and get good dps :S

[TheDestinatus]

You sound incredibly bitter and bored. Lore is better then ever. I can get the Class design stuff but the lore? It's more driving then WoD was. By a mile anyways.

I feel bitter and bored. This game resembles nothing of the warcraft I enjoyed. The story now is just one of massive escalation process, its long winded, slow to unfold so that it can make money instead of being a labour of love that actually resembled something even remotely resembling a war. The army of light, led by a holy demon who can't beat 25 people in a fight but can somehow blow up planets. The rewriting of lore so that instead of being weaker than Arthas he was somehow going to win the battle at icecrown. Its just weak, its all weak. If you want to revive characters, fine whatever, saw Onyxia enough times, but rewriting their past to make them less useless, their was a reason they failed before, maybe stop trying to find a reason to minimise why that was.

My bias opinion, Turalyon should have been the leader of any army of light, he is/was the High General of the Alliance military and a Paladin, he slotted right into that position. Hes already been fighting against the demons with the rest of the army of light, how exactly is he superseded by a demon who lost on multiple occasions. Because its cool, yeah bro. Yawn.

[F1reheart]

I want to say you're just being stubborn/afraid of change. Classes and specs change a lot in every expansion, and the game always manages to still be fun. (Even WoD was a lot of fun.) Everyone always rages at the current expansion, it's inescapable. Everyone always freaks out about their class changing into things they're not used to. Can't escape it. In the end though, it'll still be fun. Hell, you even said that basically every aspect of the game sounds awesome, except for the changes to your favored classes.. If that doesn't tell you something, then I don't know what will. I'm pretty positive you'll get used to it, get over it, and still love the expansion. Try not to dwell on the "scary" changes, but instead embrace them with open arms. Would your fury warrior give up and skulk away in defeat if he/she was forced to change their fighting style for some reason? NO! They'd grit their teeth, charge back into battle, and crush as many demon skulls as they could. Take a lesson from your character, F1reheart. Don't be a coward.

It's different when other expansions expand upon your power and add further depth, whereas legion removes a lot of abilities and simplifies mechanics. I won't enjoy something that's not engaging. Changing your fighting style is fine, suddenly forgetting everything is not.