Wow Legion : PvP Everyone is Everyone

[Ilnezhara]

Former Gladiator here.

I don't understand at all what people are complaining about. For me, PvP gear has never been the reason I PvP'ed.

For me, it's all about the competition. I'm much more concerned about the current state of things like Reflecting Totem (whatever it's called, you know what I mean) and Rogue DoTs. Those feel a tad out of control.

I think the other thing people are forgetting about, is that it doesn't matter where your iLvl points come from, only the delta matters.

If you level to 100 and are at an 80 ilvl difference, that's 8% difference in stats. Looking at WoD stats that seems to be less than a full tier behind, not bad! Then you factor in the fact that you can just pick up some crafted gear and reduce that difference to probably 30 ilvl points total (seems reasonable, I think.)

Sure, the artifact could be an issue but they seem to be addressing it with the catch up mechanisms, so maybe joining late in a season would be a disadvantage (MAYBE!), at the start of the next season you'll have a chance. Know what you can do instead of PvP'ing at such a disadvantage? Go do BGs for gear AND ARTIFACT EXP and catch up.

All in all, new system seems amazing, new talents seem amazing and new mindset towards PvP seems amazing.

[Zamsy]

For me, it's all about the competition. I'm much more concerned about the current state of things like Reflecting Totem (whatever it's called, you know what I mean) and Rogue DoTs. Those feel a tad out of control.

Sub rogue and assass are both out of control. Specific tank classes (Vengeance DHs, I'm looking at you) are also way too strong. We still have 2 months for major number changes though. If these actually went to live, pvp would be a serious shitfest, so I doubt blizzard will let it go by.

I'm cautiously optimistic about pvp balancing given the way they described it. My friends however feel the same as the OP and I feel like I won't be getting high ratings with them again D:

[Allenseiei]

Former Gladiator here.

I don't understand at all what people are complaining about. For me, PvP gear has never been the reason I PvP'ed.

For me, it's all about the competition. I'm much more concerned about the current state of things like Reflecting Totem (whatever it's called, you know what I mean) and Rogue DoTs. Those feel a tad out of control.

I think the other thing people are forgetting about, is that it doesn't matter where your iLvl points come from, only the delta matters.

If you level to 100 and are at an 80 ilvl difference, that's 8% difference in stats. Looking at WoD stats that seems to be less than a full tier behind, not bad! Then you factor in the fact that you can just pick up some crafted gear and reduce that difference to probably 30 ilvl points total (seems reasonable, I think.)

Sure, the artifact could be an issue but they seem to be addressing it with the catch up mechanisms, so maybe joining late in a season would be a disadvantage (MAYBE!), at the start of the next season you'll have a chance. Know what you can do instead of PvP'ing at such a disadvantage? Go do BGs for gear AND ARTIFACT EXP and catch up.

All in all, new system seems amazing, new talents seem amazing and new mindset towards PvP seems amazing.

Tunning passes are still going.
I don't think it will be tuned until very close to release since they have to tune both pvp and pve both separately and on unison.

[shaunika123]

My issue is that we still can't level as heals, and I do a lot of PVP while I'm leveling, but also want to quest and do non-PVP things.

you can just level as shadow and spend the artifact points into the holy wep
it's not gonna be THAT different

[Livevil]

So, since when is showing off achievements validate information that has nothing to with the discussion?

Besides, how can you even "take word" just from pasting armory stats that anyone can just look up and make up?

It is to ensure that i dont waste my time arguing with random raiders that have never done any pvp whatsoever. Much like blizzard, when they needed people to get their raids tested, they invited guilds that had killed archimonde mythic and not a bunch of lfr heroes.

It's a pvp related discussion that has to do with gear progression and power differences between characters. If you havent done any pvp gearing at the start of the season, at the middle of a season on an alt etc you are most likely talking out of your ass. If you havent done any pvp while undergeared or semi geared you're most likely talking out of your ass. If you havent got the experience, then you dont know what you're talking about. It simply provides context for your posts.

Lastly, you being scaled to 880 or 885 is completely irrelevant. It could be the bare minimum ilvl you might be at that point. I'd take datamined ilvls any time of the week over some anecdotal " i got scaled to 880ilvl". Also, legendaries might be the highest ilvl games in game at launch, the tier raid doesnt come at launch though. It's still part of the same raid tier.

[Allenseiei]

It is to ensure that i dont waste my time arguing with random raiders that have never done any pvp whatsoever. Much like blizzard, when they needed people to get their raids tested, they invited guilds that had killed archimonde mythic and not a bunch of lfr heroes.

It's a pvp related discussion that has to do with gear progression and power differences between characters. If you havent done any pvp gearing at the start of the season, at the middle of a season on an alt etc you are most likely talking out of your ass. If you havent done any pvp while undergeared or semi geared you're most likely talking out of your ass. If you havent got the experience, then you dont know what you're talking about. It simply provides context for your posts.

Lastly, you being scaled to 880 or 885 is completely irrelevant. It could be the bare minimum ilvl you might be at that point. I'd take datamined ilvls any time of the week over some anecdotal " i got scaled to 880ilvl". Also, legendaries might be the highest ilvl games in game at launch, the tier raid doesnt come at launch though. It's still part of the same raid tier.

What I meant to say with my comment regarding authentication of merits, people can easily fake a profile they got from somewhere else, which makes it meaningless. Blizzard has internal data of your account, a random forum guy does not. I can post my armory link, but then you only have to say, since I can't prove it without giving bnet info (which I wont give it to random people), that its not me, just to try to add more weight into your arguments.

The context of my posts? The only thing i lacked was the ilvl formula, which I already conceded on the information the other poster gave. This does not take into the account the lack of reasoning in your posts. Pacing is the only thing worrying about the current gearing, but with RNG in the mix neither you nor I can prove that "the pacing I say is the one that's going to be like".

New raid tier -> Higher base ilvl from pvp drops. So hard to picture yeah? Like almost any new season, this isn't vanilla where the base pvp gear got outdated.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

I can understand how this can throw some people off - I believe that item power in PvP is outdated. Working toward prestige, for instance, to get unique rewards that doesn't make you godlike to be more interesting. People will think of you as godlike if you have the novelty item anyway, no need to roflstomp people more.

[Lex Icon]

from a casual point of view this is great.. because currently anyone who's a lazy bum can just buy BiS gear and start trolling casual PvP. in Legion you'll be hit by a wall of RnG that is just going to laugh at you if you try such a thing. there's no guaranteed loot for you to get within a couple of hours even if you got a thick wallet.

[Ilnezhara]

Sorry, did I give the impression that I wasn't fully aware that balancing patches were to come?

I am not at all! I'm more optimistic than I have been since before Stampede was a thing.

Trumpet sounds still get me hard. >

[Jotaux]

from a casual point of view this is great.. because currently anyone who's a lazy bum can just buy BiS gear and start trolling casual PvP. in Legion you'll be hit by a wall of RnG that is just going to laugh at you if you try such a thing. there's no guaranteed loot for you to get within a couple of hours even if you got a thick wallet.

You can buy BoEs.

[Deleted]

from a casual point of view this is great.. because currently anyone who's a lazy bum can just buy BiS gear and start trolling casual PvP. in Legion you'll be hit by a wall of RnG that is just going to laugh at you if you try such a thing. there's no guaranteed loot for you to get within a couple of hours even if you got a thick wallet.

What do you mean by thick wallet? (honestly asking)

[Jotaux]

What do you mean by thick wallet? (honestly asking)

He means having a lot of gold.

- - - Updated - - -

Your subjective claim that it takes longer falls flat. While "time" is definitely hard to estimate with RNG, you are looking at a system that can reward you with pieces of gear each time you do an arena and that the ilvl / quality only depends on your current rating.

I sincerely doubt you will be on even footing after an evening like live.

[A dot Ham]

So you're mad that pvp is less gear reliant and more skill reliant? Am I reading that correctly

Yup... this is what I saw.

But world PvP isn't going to be effected by PvP mechanics... so maybe these people that feel like PvP is/was and should be all about the gear will breathe new life into world PvP.

[Jotaux]

I don't pvp, but I think the changes are good. Less about who's geared better, more skill based. That only sounds like a good thing.

But gear will be a larger factor in legion and Mythic raiders will benefit the most from it.

[Veeks]

But gear will be a larger factor in legion and Mythic raiders will benefit the most from it.

You must be trolling? It's the opposite because all gear is normalized. Top end players will at most see a miniscule % difference in power. This will be skill/class oriented pvp, not "I win because I have 2% higher dps output because of gear." A skilled pvp'er will have an advantage over mythic raiders with higher ilvl. And guess what, top pvp'ers will do whatever it takes to get an edge so you just may see some getting gear in raids as well. They already reroll class and specs for wins. ALSO... you do know how small a percentage of people who actually run mythic raids, right? Add to that mythic raiders that also seriously pvp and you're talking a very small number of players double dipping here. Unless you're rocking the 2250 or higher bracket regularly, this wont make a spit of difference to you or 95% of the player base.

[Allenseiei]

He means having a lot of gold.

- - - Updated - - -



I sincerely doubt you will be on even footing after an evening like live.

I think that likely disparity is something the devs are trying to avoid. They might be going back to a similar system where the rating at the end of the week marks a new (and smaller) cap so their focus could be having to commit more in grinding arenas in that said rating.

[Jotaux]

You must be trolling? It's the opposite because all gear is normalized. Top end players will at most see a miniscule % difference in power. This will be skill/class oriented pvp, not "I win because I have 2% higher dps output because of gear." A skilled pvp'er will have an advantage over mythic raiders with higher ilvl. And guess what, top pvp'ers will do whatever it takes to get an edge so you just may see some getting gear in raids as well. They already reroll class and specs for wins. ALSO... you do know how small a percentage of people who actually run mythic raids, right? Add to that mythic raiders that also seriously pvp and you're talking a very small number of players double dipping here. Unless you're rocking the 2250 or higher bracket regularly, this wont make a spit of difference to you or 95% of the player base.

It doesn't matter what bracket they are in if they are benefiting from their extra gear.

- - - Updated - - -

Only by a very very VERY small margin, as confirmed by blizz. And it should still come down to skill, when it comes to a PVP'er against a PVE'er.

A small margin is still higher than the 0% you are see on live.

- - - Updated - - -

I think that likely disparity is something the devs are trying to avoid. They might be going back to a similar system where the rating at the end of the week marks a new (and smaller) cap so their focus could be having to commit more in grinding arenas in that said rating.

I hope not, I found WoD to be much closer to equal footing gear wise. Lets reconvene here 2 months after the launch of legion and see what the results are.

[Vorkreist]

Hello, i'm the only one that feels that the PVP feeling from legion will be empty?
Since i can work very hard to get a good gear for my character, play hours for days and my friend who just get until level 110 will have almost the same power as me?

How empty has become the part of being a bit different in the game?
- Your items dont matter.
- Your Talents dont matter (since i can change then anytime i want how much i want for free).
- Your Specialization dont matter (since i can change it also anytime).

So whats matter in PVP? Get PVP talents to reset?
No more wow feeling like: "look this is my strong rogue", now is jsut "look this is my 'just get level 110 rogue' ".
I'm not talking about grinding gears, but i believe iLVL scaling could work better. Blizzard is just putting everyone in the same bag and throwing in the river.
Imagine you raiding with the same stats just 0.1% calculated by ur iLVL? Would be cool?

Good times when you had to plan your to make a build, calculate the best choices, work hard to be a champion!
We live in the years of no effort, everything on your hands.
I believe they are driving WoW into the same role as Diablo went( and its not a good place for a game, diablo mechanics is terrible nowdays)...

PvP is as we used to know it is dead. The gear equalization is the last issue. The fact that they cut and nerfed skills across the board to remove any relevant edge from a higher skill level is the last straw.

another relevant bullet line from your list:

- cc and cds don't matter
Everybody hits like a stupid truck, no need to time skills ,ccs, counters, cds to outperform your opponent.
They want to pull the drooling LFR crowd into bgs so they don't cry so hard between patches.

[Lex Icon]

It doesn't matter what bracket they are in if they are benefiting from their extra gear.

- - - Updated - - -



A small margin is still higher than the 0% you are see on live.

- - - Updated - - -



I hope not, I found WoD to be much closer to equal footing gear wise. Lets reconvene here 2 months after the launch of legion and see what the results are.

i bet you are going to bitch about why you are'nt stomping pvpers when you have been raiding all this time

[Jotaux]

A small margin is still higher than the 0% you are see on live.
What? Are you kidding me?! Are you telling me a level 100 in shit gear is going to have a compeltely fair chance against someone who is completely mythic/conquest pvp gear right now? On live? Cus that sounds made up!

A fresh 100 can get full conquest in a few hours.