What is Rape Culture?

[Deleted]

A comically abstract construct fabricated by the minds of bitter, usually unattractive women suffering from severe cases of delusion and deprived of simple reasoning skills, preferring to escape into their fantasy realm where they solve 'issues' to feel better about themselves rather than face their own insecurities regarding their gender and their crippling lack of self-esteem.

[Deleted]

No, you are the one who is trying to make that false equivalence.

you are the one trying to pretend an acquittal is not innocence, when it is.
You are the one pretending that if a person were to be found innocent, it magically makes the crime not happen and similar nonsense.

Also, since I've repeatedly spoken in this thread about how rape of men is not taken seriously and that this is a major problem in our culture, how does that fit with your narrative that I am promoting hate against men?

Because you are propagating the talking points of the people who insists that men cannot be raped.

I've seen it stated perhaps a dozen times that no rape culture could possibly exist in the "west" but of course it is rampant in other countries. I want to know what you think rape culture is as it exists in other countries.

Rape is universally seen as a crime in all societies - there exists no country with rape culture.
Rape culture, exists in prisons, in war, but not in societies.

- - - Updated - - -

It's prevelant, it happens a lot, and it's not being fixed ; I.e, normalized.

its also illegal and shunned so no its not.

[Hyve]

It's a joke that causes those who have, or will suffer from rape to be taken less seriously. When you proclaim that we live in a rape culture, all you do is normalise the concept of rape, and that anything and everything a Man does it rape. That's when people stop taking these claims seriously, and within that, the real victims are left without the much-needed support.

[Huulo]

It's a joke that causes those who have, or will suffer from rape to be taken less seriously. When you proclaim that we live in a rape culture, all you do is normalise the concept of rape, and that anything and everything a Man does it rape. That's when people stop taking these claims seriously, and within that, the real victims are left without the much-needed support.

I think you misunderstand what is meant by rape culture. It's an idea I've tried to get into in this forum, but unfortunately the discussion keeps getting derailed. When the crime occurs, there is a cultural context in which the perpetrator commits it. There is also a cultural context in which the victim decides whether or not to report it. When people such as the judge in the Brock Turner case minimize sexual assaults or dismiss them as not being real crimes (alcohol, promiscuity, etc), this contributes to that culture. I'd like to see the crimes taken more seriously, not less.

[Deleted]

At least we, westerns, are in the National socialism period of rape culture, islamic countries are still in the stone age period of the rape culture.

^_^.

[Jotaux]

I'd like to see the crimes taken more seriously, not less.

But perpetuating this Rape Culture idea has made it be taken less seriously. I am less likely to believe a rape victim now than say 2 years ago. Rape culture theory is the cause of that. Its what led to mattress girl. Its what led to her friend being pressured into making up a rape allegation so they can stand united. Luckily the friend came to her senses. Look at James Dean, some porn actress said she stood by her friend and had to publicly come out against him because of the backlash. In the Brock Turner case, one of his friends supported him, as friends do, and her band is suffering for it.

When someone talks about rape culture the current reaction for most is "crazy feminists" which harms the fight against rape rather than helps.

[Huulo]

you are the one trying to pretend an acquittal is not innocence, when it is.
You are the one pretending that if a person were to be found innocent, it magically makes the crime not happen and similar nonsense.

Because you are propagating the talking points of the people who insists that men cannot be raped.

Rape is universally seen as a crime in all societies - there exists no country with rape culture.
Rape culture, exists in prisons, in war, but not in societies.

- - - Updated - - -

You've attributed opinions to me that I've never expressed several times. Now you are also associating me with other people, nowhere on this forum, who apparently express radical ideas. Typically, this is done when you have no argument to present against my facts, so you make up a separate entity to attack instead.

I'm curious, since you've said several times that an acquittal means factual innocence, do you think it's even possible for a crime to be committed and not go to trial? Are you just willfully misrepresenting my ideas or are you genuinely confused?

In case you've forgotten, what I asserted is simply this: many rapes go unreported. If a crime is unreported, that is not the same as the crime not happening, despite what many people have claimed on this forum. Do you agree or disagree with this simple statement, not one you made up and then assigned to me?

- - - Updated - - -

But perpetuating this Rape Culture idea has made it be taken less seriously. I am less likely to believe a rape victim now than say 2 years ago. Rape culture theory is the cause of that. Its what led to mattress girl. Its what led to her friend being pressured into making up a rape allegation so they can stand united. Luckily the friend came to her senses. Look at James Dean, some porn actress said she stood by her friend and had to publicly come out against him because of the backlash. In the Brock Turner case, one of his friends supported him, as friends do, and her band is suffering for it.

When someone talks about rape culture the current reaction for most is "crazy feminists" which harms the fight against rape rather than helps.

Well this is your view. I'm not attacking you here, but I am wondering if anyone on this forum will demand exhaustive studies and empirical proof that the term "rape culture" is making people take rape less seriously, or if they only demand this from people they disagree with.

[Beazy]

In case you've forgotten, what I asserted is simply this: many rapes go unreported. If a crime is unreported, that is not the same as the crime not happening, despite what many people have claimed on this forum. Do you agree or disagree with this simple statement, not one you made up and then assigned to me?

Ill concede to this point if you can show me your mind reading machine that gives you access to unreported crime numbers.

And while youre using this machine to gather that data, could you please, for the love of god, tell us where Jimmy Hoffa was buried?

[Huulo]

Ill concede to this point if you can show me your mind reading machine that gives you access to unreported crime numbers.

And while youre using this machine to gather that data, could you please, for the love of god, tell us where Jimmy Hoffa was buried?

I've linked quite a few source before, but here you go:

https://www.cdc.gov/violencepreventi...atasheet-a.pdf

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/m...orts/19883155/

Now I have discussed before that the CDC numbers include both rapes and other sexual assaults. I think that is a strength of the study, not a weakness, because I would rather have a more complete picture than a less complete one. In any event, both the CDC study and the military study show that the vast majority of rapes still go unreported. However, the military study shows the rate is improving, which is a good sign.

[Deleted]

You've attributed opinions to me that I've never expressed several times. Now you are also associating me with other people, nowhere on this forum, who apparently express radical ideas. Typically, this is done when you have no argument to present against my facts, so you make up a separate entity to attack instead.

The Rainn statistic has been linked to me multiple times on this forums, It would not surprise me if it has been linked in this thread.

I'm curious, since you've said several times that an acquittal means factual innocence,

Nope - Legal - LEGAL innocence.
I have explicitly said that innocence has no relation on actual reality multiple times.

In case you've forgotten, what I asserted is simply this: many rapes go unreported.

1/10 ? 1/100?

If a crime is unreported, that is not the same as the crime not happening, despite what many people have claimed on this forum. Do you agree or disagree with this simple statement, not one you made up and then assigned to me?

If a crime is unreported, we don't know if the incident happened or not.

Well this is your view. I'm not attacking you here, but I am wondering if anyone on this forum will demand exhaustive studies and empirical proof that the term "rape culture" is making people take rape less seriously, or if they only demand this from people they disagree with.

I take rape less seriously too - Which is just a natural function expanding the definition to everything possible, once you include actions that are at worst douchy (like 'lying' to a woman to get laid) - real actual case mind you! I care less.
Women are a autonomous actors capable of independent action, i do not grant them any more protection than i would anyone else.

[Narwal]

Rape as a crime may occur, but that doesn't mean that is the perpetuation of rape culture. Look into BDSM and other sex fantasy groups. Many people, women included, get off on being "dominated" or better described as a "controlled rape". That is the real "rape culture" in western civilization.

[dragonvalor]

It's a joke that causes those who have, or will suffer from rape to be taken less seriously. When you proclaim that we live in a rape culture, all you do is normalise the concept of rape, and that anything and everything a Man does it rape. That's when people stop taking these claims seriously, and within that, the real victims are left without the much-needed support.

That's my take on it too, people completely devaluing rape by combing it with incidents that isn't rape thus pissing people off and making rape victims taken less serious. I have one thing to say: Stop harming rape victims with this crap

- - - Updated - - -

Rape as a crime may occur, but that doesn't mean that is the perpetuation of rape culture. Look into BDSM and other sex fantasy groups. Many people, women included, get off on being "dominated" or better described as a "controlled rape". That is the real "rape culture" in western civilization.

BDSM has nothing to do with rape. BDSM is probably more consensual due to the agreements beforehand

[Huulo]

The Rainn statistic has been linked to me multiple times on this forums, It would not surprise me if it has been linked in this thread.


I take rape less seriously too - Which is just a natural function expanding the definition to everything possible, once you include actions that are at worst douchy (like 'lying' to a woman to get laid) - real actual case mind you! I care less.
Women are a autonomous actors capable of independent action, i do not grant them any more protection than i would anyone else.

Once again, you attempt to discredit me my attributing radical ideas to me that I never said and I haven't seen anywhere on this forum. You are the only one putting forth the idea that literally anything can be rape or that talking about rape (even rape against males) is demonizing to men.

Since I've been talking about actual, factual innocence and you claim now that you only meant legal innocence, what was you point? Putting aside the false beliefs you've attributed to me, and what issue do you take with anything that I've said? Is it the CDC study? I've talked about both its advantages and drawbacks before while also listening to ridiculous claims about statistics. If so, what is your issue with it?

[Deleted]

Once again, you attempt to discredit me my attributing radical ideas to me that I never said and I haven't seen anywhere on this forum.

You are for rape culture - You are like a ID supporter who complain they get called a creationist.

Since I've been talking about actual, factual innocence

That's not a thing.
Its possible for something to happen without being legally culpable for that thing - that is to say, objective reality might be that a person actually did it, but nonetheless there is no legal culpability.

and you claim now that you only meant legal innocence, what was you point?

I was always talking about innocence - Non legal innocence not being a thing - Innocence is explicitly legal in and of it self.

Is it the CDC study? I've talked about both its advantages and drawbacks before while also listening to ridiculous claims about statistics. If so, what is your issue with it?

The non exhaustive enumberated list of my problems with the CDC figure is as follows:
- Uses a completely novel definition of rape, not shared with any law enforcement agency or any criminologist.
- The sexist definition of rape, so as to exclude male victims from the rape category, for the sole purpose of pandering to feminist dogma.
- never asking the putative victims if they have been raped, but instead asking them roundabout questions and then from those answers having the surveyor conclude if they were raped or not.
- Asking, have you had sex while drunk? and then recording an answer in the affirmative as rape.
- not questioning these numbers when it adds 13.7 million new rape victims that criminologists and the FBI did not know about, when the 1/5 figure demands a rape rate greater than that of Wartorn Kongo.
In short, the flaws with this study is so numerous, so great and so self evident, its unstated premises so absurd, that a high school dropout should be able to instantly realize its pure garbage.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

But do you understand that an acquittal isn't the same as proving the defendant innocent? It means they weren't proven guilty, because that's how are justice system is supposed to work. You are either proven guilty or they let you go. The defense does not have to prove innocence.

Thats weird, I thought we were all innocent until proven guilty.. and since we are specifically talking about people who have not been proven guilty....

- - - Updated - - -

Do you have actual proof, of this?

You are basically saying that an entire movement have made up a concept and that they are all completely delusional on the subject.

I somehow, question your sentiment, in that context.

You've never heard of the word "propaganda...?" Like you know, how people were saying that Obama wasn't born in the USA? I mean, unless you agree with them, you'll agree it was a made up movement.

[TheImperios]

If a religion in any way justifies something bad, it needs reformation. Christianity used to justify bad stuff as well. But it got reformed and people only took the good stuff from it into every day culture.

Islam is in big need of reformation so it can't be in any circumstances a base for murder or rape. And right now it is in far too many place of the Earth. That's why it is so important to point out that Islam is the problem. Not to bash muslims but to make them understand that they HAVE TO reform their religion if they want to be part of western world. It is THEIR responsibility.

You imply Islam is a uniform force. Salafism =/= Tatarstani Islam =/= Chechen Sufi Islam =/= Iranian Shi'a Islam. No reformation needed, just stand against the more rapey communities.

[Lilija]

You imply Islam is a uniform force. Salafism =/= Tatarstani Islam =/= Chechen Sufi Islam =/= Iranian Shi'a Islam. No reformation needed, just stand against the more rapey communities.

Well, I didn't imply that. I implayed that there is a problem within Islam as no other religion nowadays is leading to things certain people do in the name of Islam or justify by Islam. I don't know Islam that well to say what has to change but I think it's rather obvious something has to change and that is in the best interest of muslims to work on that change.

For example, the pedophilia issue within Catholic Church, while being lied about for far too long, is being condemned by christians. People who even try to justify it (and there were cases) were being ostirsized by most of the christians. The bottom line is, pedophilia within Catholic Church is reponsibility of the Church and has to be resolved by the Church and its members. Also, noone is forbidding talking about bad things that happen within Christian churches. While if someone even tries to criticize Islam they are called an islamophobe.

[Huulo]

You are for rape culture - You are like a ID supporter who complain they get called a creationist.

I was always talking about innocence - Non legal innocence not being a thing - Innocence is explicitly legal in and of it self.

In short, the flaws with this study is so numerous, so great and so self evident, its unstated premises so absurd, that a high school dropout should be able to instantly realize its pure garbage.

Thank goodness we have you here to read the minds of the people behind the study and expose their secret, unstated man-hating agendas! /s

I'm sorry but you're just wrong about the meaning of the word innocence. In a legal context, it means legally innocent. Have you really never heard of its use in another context before, for example a religious one, or are you just willfully twisting my words to suit your agenda of painting me as a fanatic?

The factual errors in your previous post were numerous. I don't want to derail the conversation I'd mention for the 12th time that I was not speaking about legal culpability, but it's getting clear to me now that you'd rather just twist my words into what you want to hear.

I do take exception to being told I'm for rape culture, as I'm trying to combat it by encouraging dialogue, while other people on this forum have for the most part tried to shut dialogue down.

I want to foster discussion about how we view and react to rape. Their is a cultural context in which it occurs, and their was a cultural context in which the Brock Turner case occurred. I think it's worth discussing.

Suppose you were completely right and I was completely wrong, that there are no cultural problems with "the west" (or if you prefer, the entire world). Then your argument would succeed without the need to shut down dialogue. The fact that talking about "rape culture" or "rape psychology" inspires so much rage and denial is indicative that there is something here worth discussing.

Since so many people have brought it up, I want to address the "Muslim world vs west" topic. This is of interest to me, because I've noticed that it's easier to condemn people you see as outside yourself while pardoning those seen as similar to you. Many on this forum have asserted that there is a rape culture in Muslim countries but not in the west. If you are one of those posters, what do you think makes a Muslim society (excluding terrorist groups like ISIL) have a rape culture problem? In general, when you hate someone, it's a good exercise to identify the thing in them that is most like you, then see if you still hate them.

[AeneasBK]

Another one of those awesome OP's who writes " I don't know about X" then proceeds to tell people that they are wrong about X

[IKT]

Another one of those awesome OP's who writes " I don't know about X" then proceeds to tell people that they are wrong about X

The amount of 'I've never seen it therefore it doesn't exist' logic fails in this thread... is about on par with this off topic forum.