1. #6821
    Quote Originally Posted by garonne View Post

    gotcha, i misread.
    All good, as for how Zeal will work out it should be a bit better (this is just going off of what i can at best guess will be a setup based off of PTR) Haste i believe gets devalued a bit from this change and i think we'll pretty much be using Zeal 100% of the time once we have 4 set (assuming the bonuses that i saw on PTR are infact the tier bonuses, maybe even before that though) Crit gains a bit of value since i don't think BoW is in the running anymore for talent use except at extremely low levels of haste which defaults use to either VB or Divine Hammer for talent use. In any case the increase on HP generation is welcomed since that's the primary limiting factor which should make Zeal an overall more attractive choice. And just to reiterate these are just the way i view things could be totally wrong for all i know lol.

  2. #6822
    So here's a question for people... Any idea what our stats weights are roughly right now? Like, is mastery so bad that we want literally anything over it? If we hit some kind of haste break point what do we go next? Crit? Vers?

  3. #6823
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    So here's a question for people... Any idea what our stats weights are roughly right now? Like, is mastery so bad that we want literally anything over it? If we hit some kind of haste break point what do we go next? Crit? Vers?
    mastery affects roughly 50-60% of our overall damage (judgment,tv, ds, es, dp:jv) so its still valuable, not sure it'll be number 1 tho, that may go to haste (for cleave). single target it may be mastery/crit or crit/mastery

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosinciter View Post
    All good, as for how Zeal will work out it should be a bit better (this is just going off of what i can at best guess will be a setup based off of PTR) Haste i believe gets devalued a bit from this change and i think we'll pretty much be using Zeal 100% of the time once we have 4 set (assuming the bonuses that i saw on PTR are infact the tier bonuses, maybe even before that though) Crit gains a bit of value since i don't think BoW is in the running anymore for talent use except at extremely low levels of haste which defaults use to either VB or Divine Hammer for talent use. In any case the increase on HP generation is welcomed since that's the primary limiting factor which should make Zeal an overall more attractive choice. And just to reiterate these are just the way i view things could be totally wrong for all i know lol.
    its a nice buff, and i wasn't using gbom during a quick test

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    i think they may nerf zeal... this change seems too good

  4. #6824
    Gonna tell you right now, these changes made a big impact on Ret gameplay. The rotation feels considerably faster with the reduced CDs on the Blade spells, and the change to Divine Hammer makes it work really really well with Consecration (one extra GCD free to hit it). It's also pretty nice that you basically get a 10 second buff of AE all around you with Divine Hammer, and the bonus to Holy Power makes it easier to use Divine Storm or Verdict more often.

    Right now I'm running Zeal, Blade of Justice, Execution Sentence (big dick hits build). It feels pretty good actually on my copied over character; Crusader Strike hits about as hard as Blade of Justice, but Blade crits big. Execution Sentence hits hard and it's a great pull ability cause you can open with it after one fight and immediately Judge.

    I think a few of us already said this, but as far as our basic rotation goes, it was literally a numbers game to make it "feel good." Numbers as in holy power generated and CD on skills.

    Mobility is still so damn bad though. I'm running around questing and it feels so painful sometimes.

    Bonus point though: Reckoning is getting more use now (still is ranged), and it has a new animation (makes your dude like..roar?)

    We'll see how things go. Still holding my breath for baseline charger + talent that modifies it. I'd feel pretty good with that (also uh...Shield of Vengeance by default 2 min CD feels kinda ballsack).

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    Quote Originally Posted by garonne View Post
    mastery affects roughly 50-60% of our overall damage (judgment,tv, ds, es, dp:jv) so its still valuable, not sure it'll be number 1 tho, that may go to haste (for cleave). single target it may be mastery/crit or crit/mastery

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    its a nice buff, and i wasn't using gbom during a quick test

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    i think they may nerf zeal... this change seems too good
    Keep in mind with Zeal you rarely get 3 finishers in a Judgment window, whereas with Fires of Justice and new CDs you can easily get 3 in.

    Edit: One more big thing to note. Now that Blade of Justice CD is as low as it is, the Law and Order talent is MUCH stronger. Basically you can apply Hand of Hindrance for 3/8 seconds without any haste if you're using Blade on CD. Considering it's a nasty slow (70%) that's really powerful compared to every 12 seconds (roughly 37.5% uptime vs. 25% uptime). Not sure if Blade of Wrath applies it.
    Last edited by ruiizu; 2016-06-22 at 06:25 AM.

  5. #6825
    the change is strong for both fires and zeal so they may not actually change it (since they also buffed GJ). the damage feels a lot similar to other classes as well.

  6. #6826
    So, concerning AoE, I think we do a bit more dps on PTR now than we do on live. Well, sort of. I still do more on live but only if I use trinkets. Unequipping trinkets on both live and PTR, with my target dummy tests I'm averaging ~20% more damage on 3 target cleave on PTR.

    Our level 100 talents are still some of the worst pieces of game design I've ever seen in this game, but number wise we're doing well.

  7. #6827
    trinkets are nerfed on the ptr if im not mistaken

  8. #6828
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    Our level 100 talents are still some of the worst pieces of game design I've ever seen in this game, but number wise we're doing well.
    Hopefully they're doing this in phases; they've fixed the guts, next they'll work on the legs, and then finally re-evaluate the end talents again, which I guess is the genitals in this analogy?
    Last edited by Bormec; 2016-06-22 at 06:55 AM.

  9. #6829
    Quote Originally Posted by Bormec View Post
    Hopefully they're doing this in phases; they've fixed the guts, next they'll work on the legs, and then finally re-evaluate the end talents again, which I guess is the genitals in this analogy?

  10. #6830
    Quote Originally Posted by garonne View Post
    trinkets are nerfed on the ptr if im not mistaken
    Which is exactly why I just don't use trinkets for testing purposes.

  11. #6831
    for the people who wanted less empty gcd's this change should please you.

  12. #6832
    Seeing how strong we are at AoE on the PTR, I'm actually worried that Divine Hammer is gonna get nerfed. Our AoE damage is gonna be really fucking good once we have Ashes to Ashes.

  13. #6833
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiaron View Post
    Why do they want us as a support class but refuse to give us any meaningful support? I don't get it.
    I still don't understand why we have no option to instant cast Flash of Light

  14. #6834
    Quote Originally Posted by garonne View Post
    rogues and druids use energy which requires a cd for regen... its the same shit
    Except it's not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post
    @CptKnusper the reason im lashing out is because this is the kind of stuff that gets praised as golden thought when we basically already have this kind of issue now. our finishers are already too quick to put out and as a result, they hardly do any damage. making finishers cost 1 HP when we have too many ways to get said holypower means you might as well make said finishers be less than auto attacks. it just makes zero sense and could be potentially incredibly worthless or overpowered.

    This is the kind of stuff i dislike. its just random thought without any process going into what that would mean as a whole for the game.
    Please forgive us for trying to come up with ideas, however bad and full of fail they might be.


    Overall, an greatest build, just as usual.
    Loving how Prots get to cast DS on others in PvP, and with a lesser cd.
    Why the feth not.

    Loving how all the Ret issues get ignored and overlooked, time and time again.
    Dare I say, they know what they are doing.

  15. #6835
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    Except it's not.


    .
    ability x cost energy, use ability, wait till energy regens, when full use finisher, rinse and repeat

    ability is free with cd, use ability, wait till it comes off cd, when full use finisher, rinse and repeat

    the BASIC gameplay is the same. you're being contrived.

  16. #6836
    Quote Originally Posted by garonne View Post
    ability x cost energy, use ability, wait till energy regens, when full use finisher, rinse and repeat

    ability is free with cd, use ability, wait till it comes off cd, when full use finisher, rinse and repeat

    the BASIC gameplay is the same. you're being contrived.
    use ability, mod ded, collect loots.
    The BASIC gameplay is the same.
    You're purposefully not seeing the difference.

  17. #6837
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    use ability, mod ded, collect loots.
    The BASIC gameplay is the same.
    You're purposefully not seeing the difference.
    " i know you are, but what am i" rebuttal? LMFAOOOOO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    random thought more: why Ret generators have cd when no other combopoint-based class has such a retarded ramification?

    I'm profusely fancying that sweet interaction between Ret generators and DK talent which increases time required for CDs to come off.

    How about BoJ with a 18 sec cd huh? Sounds like fun
    so, since im being daft, what are the retarded ramifications that ret suffers, that an energy/combopoint based class doesn't suffer from having a cd then?

  18. #6838
    Quote Originally Posted by garonne View Post
    " i know you are, but what am i" rebuttal? LMFAOOOOO
    so, since im being daft, what are the retarded ramifications that ret suffers, that an energy/combopoint based class doesn't suffer from having a cd then?
    it would be very kind of you to start making sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by garonne View Post
    so, since im being daft, what are the retarded ramifications that ret suffers, that an energy/combopoint based class doesn't suffer from having a cd then?
    (I'm not entirely sure there is a point trying to engage a poilte discussion with you, but here goes nothing )

    Example one:
    Your generator gets parried/dodged/is a miss
    what does that mean for other classes? None. They use generator again. And are refunded spent Energy.

    What does it mean for Ret? You get fethed.

    Example two:
    an rouge/durid pools energy, unleashes it all, while continuing to autoattack(which restores energy btw), and goes on and on, and lo, his rotation is fuild, there are no points of BRUST/no damage at all. There is no downtime.

    Ret?
    You "pool" 3 CP, wait for generator to come off cd, wait for Judgement of Smashing Colossi, pool some more, unleash.
    Ret requires a decent amount of haste to begin working, which is a well-established opinion, shared by most of the community.
    To begin working, Coral.

  19. #6839
    Quote Originally Posted by Bormec View Post
    The removal of 35% nerf on 2nd Judged target, and the buff on Greater Judgement, was nice too
    I think you've misread. It's not the 35% nerf that got removed - it's the 2nd target entirely! Judgment no longer chains at all unless you take Greater Judgment.

  20. #6840
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePants999 View Post
    I think you've misread. It's not the 35% nerf that got removed - it's the 2nd target entirely! Judgment no longer chains at all unless you take Greater Judgment.
    That's not what the new tooltip says, according to Wowhead:

    Judges the target and 1 other nearby enemy dealing (200% of Spell power) Holy damage and causing them to take 0% increased damage taken from your Holy Power spenders for 8 sec.

    Up to 3 other enemies if you pick Greater Judgement.

    Now I don't really like the 2nd target bit - I might not want to break some CC for example - but the latest patch clearly states it hits 2 targets, apparently for full damage.

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