[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Sury]

Good try.

In the books they only talk about Summer/Winter lasting years. The intermediate seasons are rarely mentioned. So when they said Winter was over and autumn has arrived, it struck me as odd since for a long while no one had ever mentioned Spring or Autumn. So yeah, suddenly dropping that Summer is over, and then mentioning Autumn for the first time is acceptable, but you can't hardly act like it was established.


Second, no one knows how long Spring/Autumn lasts. If you do, let me know now please. Cause with fluctuating Summer/Winters, and no mention of the other two seasons lasting years, what would you expect?


I am pretty sure that Spring and Autumn are little more than buffers for the turning of seasons. If Winters and Summers last about the same, and they generally last a few years to a decade. I hardly think a person could be born in the beginning of summer, and not see their next summer until they are in their 20's (with short seasons of equal length).

Good try? You just said by your own admission you have no idea how long Autumn and Spring are typically. I simply came to the realistic conclusion that they are of similar varying length to the other seasons unless told otherwise. One could reason the lack of information about the length of Autumn and Spring is simply due to the significant emphasis placed on the magical properties that directly influence the varying lengths of Summer and Winter.

You are pretty sure they are little more than buffers for turning seasons. Where is this explicitly said or written that this is in fact the case?

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So now we have people like LF making a journey that usually takes months/ several episodes and he does this in one episode? And Dany all over the place doing her dragon lady shit, and Tyrion and Yara traveling across the world as well.

So it feels like a good deal of time has gone by yeah? Otherwise all that traveling is impossible.


And in that time, it is still autumn. So either autumn and spring actually last a good long time and no one has bothered to care enough about it since they don't speak of it that much, or these characters have discovered the combustion engine and petroleum.


This is just a nitpick is all. Not even a big enough deal to discuss seriously. I just feel like the pacing of the show with time is off.

After reading your reply to the other poster by your own admission this is really just about your disapproval with the pacing of the show and not really about realism in these scenarios which is fine.

[Lemons]

I would've taken the time to forge that giant some decent plate armor, a shield and big ol iron mace.

A mace and full armor would be a tall order considering the time they had available, but honestly the giant would have been 10x more effective with just a simple club. It would have taken no time to just chop down a tree and fashion it into a club. Jeez, even the mountain giants of Wacraft III had enough sense to grab a tree and swing it around.

I'm guessing the only reason they didn't give the giant any sort of weapon is because if he had one he would have easily smashed through Ramsey's phalanx, and they wanted that part in the story. I still feel like they could have given the giant a weapon to begin with, and he could have just dropped it at some point before the phalanx formation, but never giving him a weapon just seemed really stupid to me.

Good try? You just said by your own admission you have no idea how long Autumn and Spring are typically.

You could just...look it up? Instead of both arguing from ignorance. I just did on the wiki and it seems like most recorded autumns are typically a year long.

[eschatological]

In the books, winter is declared by the Citadel, but no one really acknowledges the "coming of autumn" or the "close of Summer." IIRC, "autumn" is a colloquial term mainly to express that summer is coming to an end. IE, in the very first book there's a hint that summer is coming to an end, but the white raven of the Citadel doesn't show up til....book 4? Yet everyone is stockpiling supplies for winter by book 2, and there's concern in some corners about having a war and sieges right before winter.

[HeyJoe]

Agreed regarding Wun Wun... he could have uprooted a tree and used it as a club if nothing else and could have probably single-handedly broken through that Spartan phalanx which seemed so out of place. Yes, I get that the Unsullied use the tactic, but it seems anachronistic in the feudal Europe based 7 Kingdoms... but I digress. Wun Wun could have also KICKED at the shield wall and done tremendous damage.

I loved the episode, but am an uber nerd so have to find SOMETHING to complain about! Also, does Littlefinger's ring of teleportation now work on entire armies? Just how far is the Vale from Winterfell... or was he encamped somewhere close by in the hope that Sansa would change her mind?

Best moments:

1. Dracarys (again)
2. Jon Snow pulls a Leeroy Jenkins
3. My dogs are loyal beasts and would never hurt me

[Sury]

You could just...look it up? Instead of both arguing from ignorance. I just did on the wiki and it seems like most recorded autumns are typically a year long.

Oh I did look it up. I found that specific link and purposefully did not reference it for two simple reason.
a) less than 300 years out of 12,000
b) incomplete even over that small time frame

It only lists two properly recorded Autumns out of the hundreds if not thousands of the previous unrecorded Autumns which occurred before them during the 12,000 year period prior to Aegon's Conquest.

The recorded dates are approximate and the notes point out one Autumn lasted 2 years the other lasted 1-2 years.
Two Winters listed lasted 6 years and another lasted 3 years.
One Summer lasted 10 years and another lasted 7 years.
The only Spring lasted 2 years.

The only thing we know definitively is the seasons last a varying amount of time which is no less than a year as long as that tiny sample size is the norm.

Ironically you quoted me but I was not that person to claim Autumn in The Known World should only last a matter of months.

If you were paying a bit closer attention to the discussion you would have noticed the core of the disagreement was about unrealistic expectations of realism without the proper information to come to a definitive conclusion on what can be considered realistic in the first place. Several other posters have brought up this same concern in this thread.

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In the books, winter is declared by the Citadel, but no one really acknowledges the "coming of autumn" or the "close of Summer." IIRC, "autumn" is a colloquial term mainly to express that summer is coming to an end. IE, in the very first book there's a hint that summer is coming to an end, but the white raven of the Citadel doesn't show up til....book 4? Yet everyone is stockpiling supplies for winter by book 2, and there's concern in some corners about having a war and sieges right before winter.

Sure, Autumn can be considered a colloquial term. The last book of the series is titled A Dream of Spring which makes myself assume Spring will likely be referenced directly in the upcoming books. No disagreement here, merely an observation.

[Raldazzar]

Bah, some guy who was posting spoilers early on in this thread bill nye or something who was pretty spot on with most things said we would see Nymeria and her pack show up, i was looking forward to that! :<

[Lemons]

Spartan phalanx which seemed so out of place.

Agreed...my only thought is that Ramsey just thought it would be cool or something.

Also, does Littlefinger's ring of teleportation now work on entire armies? Just how far is the Vale from Winterfell... or was he encamped somewhere close by in the hope that Sansa would change her mind?

I think Littlefinger asking Sansa if she wants his help was completely perfunctory. He was going to show up no matter what, because before that conversation even happened he had said something to the effect of "it's time for the Vale to rejoin the fight". Littlefinger just does whatever he wants.

[Sury]

Just how far is the Vale from Winterfell... or was he encamped somewhere close by in the hope that Sansa would change her mind?

To further answer your question they were encamped at Moat Cailin, directly south along The Kingsroad.

[Tommy T]

If she is, I doubt she'll stay that way long.

That's the shock scene at the end of the next episode.
Sansa repeatedly punching herself in the stomach while sobbing. Get some Djawadi music in the background and show a shot of Sansa kneeling in her own blood at the end.

Wonder how the audience would respond to that. At least it's not rape?

[Slant]

Coming next, if the rumors are true, is Cercei Lannister who blows up the sept of Beilor with her ulti.

Nerf this!

D'va's voice never has been more fitting than for that very specific scenario... please, let it happen. I want to see that PotG.

[Deleted]

Littlefinger talking to Cersei earlier when he became 'Warden of the North' said he would destroy the surviving army, but he's all horny for Sansa.

[Thrif]

It doesn't make sense only if you don't want to see sense.

There are plenty of realistic (narratively) explanations for your issue with stupid arrows, you just choose to ignore them and stick to "unrealistic". For whatever reason.

1. Fire god has one purpose for Beric, another for Jon. Beric can die and get resurrected, Jon cannot die again until the purpose is fulfilled - because he's a symbol and/or is more important than Beric so he needs that extra care. PR you know. Would it be cool if Jon died again and again like a lousy warrior commander? No.

If he can magically keep him alive as some sort of Champion, why let him die in the first place? That's pretty risky, considering the resurrection wasn't guaranteed.

2. LUCK, Fucking luck. Go ahead and try to claim it was impossible.
3. Reality. If volley of the arrows always hit all targets - I would scream MAGIC ARROWS.

The same argument really. And while it's possible to survive all of that, it's also improbable. And that's just bad storytelling. It's the same deal as in all the action movies where bad guys fires full magazines of rifle fire at protagonists but never hit a single shot. That isn't suspension. That isn't exciting. You know they're never gonna hit. And while nobody is claiming that it's literally impossible, making something highly improbable into a common situation is bad storytelling.

If Jon is really the Chosen One, Azor Ahai or the Prince That Was Promised, he may not have been resurrected the same way as Beric Dondarion. It seems that the show, at least, wants to make Jon a Christ-like figure. In the Gospels, Jesus returns Lazarus to life, but Lazarus will die later on. When Jesus returns to life, his body is changed and made uncorruptible. It is possible something like that happened to Jon. I mean, he may still be mortal, but he could have become stronger, faster with better reflexes, etc. We don't know. As we don't know if the Red God truly exists in that universe. I think they will intentionally leave it to the viewer to decide.

Well, that would be completely contradictory to the previously established fact that people who come back come back as less each time. Also, if he was noticably stronger or faster, to the extent that it would've let him survive an onslaught of that calibre, I'm pretty sure he would've noticed it himself.

~~

All in all, and to both of you, yes nobody is arguing that it's impossible to survive such a fight, or that the gods might have had a hand in the game. But either of those things are bad storytelling.

Because one of those reasons, making the improbable happen to excite or amaze us, is just laughable. We've seen the bad guy shoot for hours and miss and we've seen the bomb stop at 1 second so often it's just cliché and dull. Yes, it's not literally impossible, but nobody is going to watch a bomb stops at 1 second scene and go "Brilliant writing right here!"

And the second reason is the same reason that Prometheus was bad. I've actually seen hours of people trying to explain why it was a good movie, and once you know every possible piece of trivia and subtext and cut it's a lot less worse, but that doesn't justify the movie as a whole. If you can't convey things in a decent manner it doesn't matter what the thinking behind it was. And the thought that the Red God protected him during the fight is completely plucked from thin air and just gives every white knight an unfalsifiable reason for anything that happens to any character.

[Elim Garak]

If he can magically keep him alive as some sort of Champion, why let him die in the first place? That's pretty risky, considering the resurrection wasn't guaranteed.

A. So he can leave the watch
B. So he is seen as magical by others

The same argument really. And while it's possible to survive all of that, it's also improbable.

It's quite probable. Happens all the time. See it happening to Jon.

[Myth]

Littlefinger needed Rickon dead in order to gain his control of the north by being with Sansa which is likely why Sansa changed her tune in regards to Rickon (convinced by Littlefinger he is already dead). Then the wildling army would never follow Littlefinger so he waits until most of them are dead before charging in to save the day. Again, likely convinced Sansa that the wildlings needed to be trimmed down which is why she didn't tell Jon about them coming. Jon being a bastard is completely expendable to Littlefinger.

[Independent voter]

Any else notice how many ladies are taking over leadership roles? I think the writers want to appeal to female viewers.

[lonely zergling]

Any else notice how many ladies are taking over leadership roles? I think the writers want to appeal to female viewers.

My predictions:

Dany + Asha marriage incoming, Varys went to dorne to get #teambadpussy to join #teamboobs&dragons. Sansa is already bossing around the azor ahai, wil most likely take controll over the stuff in the north.

Euron gets his dick chopped off in the next season and is eaten by a dragon. Brienne will surely meet the hound again and she kills him but they wont show the death on screen.

Cersei burns the city out of desperation and viewers will cheer for her "badassery".

More power to the females!

[Tekkommo]

They did what I never thought they would do. They didn't just top Hardhome, they wiped the floor with it.

Awesome episode.

[pateuvasiliu]

LF could've killed them all. Mistake. It'll cost him his life.

[Graeham]

I just hope that Cersei gets her hands dirty and takes out a few of her enemies before the season ends. I'd hate for them to pull a 'The Walking Dead' and build up a certain something all season only to cut to the credits right before it happens. I think she's going to survive into the next season, at least.

[pateuvasiliu]

Sparrow, Septa, Lancel, Tommen, Marge, Loras, Mace, Walder are all on the death list imo.