Putin Walks Back Trump Praise, Says U.S. Is the Only Superpower

[Shalcker]

Calling bullshit on that.

Seriously.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireSto...lence-39897477
...
Among the three Russians given prison terms is Alexei Erunov, the director for fan relations at leading Russian club Lokomotiv Moscow. He was sentenced to two years.

Part of the evidence against Erunov was footage filmed by another Russian fan and posted online. Erunov was seen shouting and gesturing on the video, which also showed acts of violence. He denied playing any role in the violence.

Dynamo Moscow fan Nikolai Morozov also received a 12 months sentence and Sergei Gorbachev, the director of a construction company in the central Russian city of Tula, received 18 months.

Fair trial? Gathering of evidence? "Innocent until proven guilty"? Nah, who cares, get videos from social networks, identify people in them (even if they do nothing bad there) and sentence them for two years less then a two weeks after a fact... "speedy trial" by Western justice!

Here is transcript:
http://www.lamarseillaise.fr/marseil...porters-russes

Entire trial took 2 (two) hours for 4 people + 15 minutes for judge decision. Google translate seems to be quite adequate there.

[Slant]

Seriously.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireSto...lence-39897477
...
Among the three Russians given prison terms is Alexei Erunov, the director for fan relations at leading Russian club Lokomotiv Moscow. He was sentenced to two years.

Part of the evidence against Erunov was footage filmed by another Russian fan and posted online. Erunov was seen shouting and gesturing on the video, which also showed acts of violence. He denied playing any role in the violence.

Dynamo Moscow fan Nikolai Morozov also received a 12 months sentence and Sergei Gorbachev, the director of a construction company in the central Russian city of Tula, received 18 months.

Fair trial? Gathering of evidence? "Innocent until proven guilty"? Nah, who cares, get videos from social networks, identify people in them (even if they do nothing bad there) and sentence them for two years less then a two weeks after a fact... "speedy trial" by Western justice!

Video footage is proper evidence. That it was posted on Facebook doesn't diminish its validity. And a proper trial doesn't usually need more than one session. I don't see a fault in that, other than you whinging that they were fast in the verdict. Innocent until proven guilty only protects you until someone provides proper evidence. A video is pretty good evidence. It ranks up there right under you actually admitting it yourself.

[Shalcker]

Video footage is proper evidence. That it was posted on Facebook doesn't diminish its validity. And a proper trial doesn't usually need more than one session. I don't see a fault in that, other than you whinging that they were fast in the verdict. Innocent until proven guilty only protects you until someone provides proper evidence. A video is pretty good evidence. It ranks up there right under you actually admitting it yourself.

Video evidence of what exactly? Entire trial for four people took two hours.

Check transcript:

http://www.lamarseillaise.fr/marseil...porters-russes

Let's google translate part that led to largest sentence, Alexei Erunov, entirety of argument:
5:58 p.m. Aleksei "love France"

Aleksei: "I apologize for what happened in the future I will think before passing my emotions I love France I have already visited small and I would come back..."

5:56 p.m. The villainous accusations for defense counsel

The defense lawyer appointed by the court. "I discovered at the hearing new documents The answer should not be media is trying to make an example is made us a show with the prosecutor and his small laser pen.. . There is almost nothing on this video. It does not even look up.

Seen in the second video actually chasing someone but video stops. Deductions skills are wicked. The prosecutor recovered two small fish in his net to political and diplomatic necessities. There is no material to come into condemnation in this case. He is accused of abuse without ITT on an unidentified victim. It's a UFO.

They want us to believe that it is a usual hooligan standing out this Slovak story that has nothing to do with a sports arena. "

5:53 p.m. Submission of André Ribes: "30 months firm, warrant and ban the country for two years"

"Two legal qualifications accumulate as criminal association with the gang. The crowd, they are preparatory acts and it is a joint action once it is acting out.

This is the horde that rushes. Seen jumping on a person. When participating in the action, they know that the other tap, so there are co-action. It is about people from all over the country to fight. They blocked the course of the two sides to expel the English.

Whatever we not see the break a chair on someone, it is part of a group that fights and he attends. After charging, it remains for another hunt begins. There are vital prognosis committed to a victim.

This is 30 months firm, warrant and ban the country for two years "

5:52 p.m.

5:48 p.m. Judge: Did you?

Aleksei: "Yes, I know myself, I was there I never hit anyone or hurt I had a memory loss after receiving an object on the head I had nothing... in my hands to throw. "

The judge ". No criminal record How did you come to France."

Aleksei: "I arrived in France on June 10 by plane from Moscow to Marseilles I have a wife and two children I am responsible for the supporters club Lokomotiv Moscow for 7 years..."

The judge: "You were arrested in November 2010 in Prague, for disturbing public order"

Him: "It is false There was an inspection in the stadium.".

5:46 p.m. Watching the second video

The prosecutor ". The hunt continues Wherever people are isolated, they are struck gentleman is seen with a chair in hand, which then climbs the stairs of course Estiennes Orves.."

To wait 5:36 p.m.

To wait, find here our direct the day of June 11, marked by scenes of violence on the Old Port of Marseille.

5:28 p.m. Suspension hearing about this incident

The Court adjourned to allow defense lawyers devisionner video.

5:28 p.m. The prosecutor submits a second video that defense lawyers could not see

Lawyer: "I have not seen my client for even half an hour in the jails I have not had time to talk with him It's unfair..."

5:25 p.m. Judge: Why your ticket is not torn?

Aleksei: "This is a fault in the organization I had the ticket in the electronic detector but no one was there to snatch I stayed in the H sector lower..."

The judge ". People have been very seriously injured Even if you have not swung a chair against someone, the violence was committed in a group, this has an impact on you."

Aleksei: "I insisted that I did not hit anyone."

17:25 The judge stopped the video: You acknowledge you in these pictures?

Aleksei. "Yes there was a dispute with the English, I have not thrown anything I have clean hands It is the emotion that led me to remain in this group Everyone can... wrong. I did not intend to hit someone.

I have never been prosecuted in other countries. I went to the football game after that, I had a headache. "

5:23 p.m. combat Positioning

Prosecutor: You start the race at 6/7 km / hour on the course Estienne d'Orves, a race that will keep the stamina for the fight. See are combat positions with bent legs for the fight.

They take everything that can serve them for combat. Here we see the English support base that will be hit and is still in a coma.

There, an Englishman is isolated and the group falls on him to instead Thiars. It's hunting, they rely on a single person who had an English flag. They climb the stairs from the top of the course Estienne d'Orves.

Here we see the accused who is in the group and that will appear. Chairs fly.

5:16 p.m. Video support

The judge: "You were arrested June 15, 2016, identified from recovered videos on Youtube which shows you participate in clashes that day in your phone, nothing related events was found.. not torn ticket for the game. "

The prosecutor proposes to watch the videos filmed by participants in GoPro. He comments live.

5:11 p.m. Aleksei Erunov, shaved head, beefy chunky white shirt

The judge: "It is being criticized for having knowingly participated in a group in the preparation of violence against people with the aggravating circumstance that the facts were committed in meeting To have voluntarily committed violence in meeting n '. ITT not result in prejudice of an unidentified victim. "
Aleksei, on querying the judge: "I want to be judged today."

The hearing begins 5:07 p.m.

The defendants are within the box, very different physical.

5:06 p.m.

Karem Bensadia, 46 years old, aka K-Rhyme rapper King, is the lot of those appearing for violence involving the use or threat of a weapon without disabilities in sports event committed 11 June 2016. It was not planned the day before it is brought. It was to be called later. The prosecution has preferred to not wait.

5:01 p.m.

Nikolay Morozov, Aleksei Erunov and Sergei Gorbachev are charged with "participation in a group formed for the preparation of violence against persons or destruction or damage to property June 11, 2016" and "Violence in meeting disability-free at sporting event. "


Do you know how long it took to sentence "Pussy Riot" in Russia, "not-land-of-law"? They also had video evidence!

How many hearings were there for what was ultimately same two year sentence?

[Mihalik]

Is this a subtle hint that the economic realities of the sanctions are starting to sink in with Putin?

[Slant]

Video evidence of what exactly?

Check transcript:

http://www.lamarseillaise.fr/marseil...porters-russes

Let's google translate part that led to largest sentence, Alexei Erunov, entirety of argument:
5:58 p.m. Aleksei "love France"

Aleksei: "I apologize for what happened in the future I will think before passing my emotions I love France I have already visited small and I would come back..."

5:56 p.m. The villainous accusations for defense counsel

The defense lawyer appointed by the court. "I discovered at the hearing new documents The answer should not be media is trying to make an example is made us a show with the prosecutor and his small laser pen.. . There is almost nothing on this video. It does not even look up.

Seen in the second video actually chasing someone but video stops. Deductions skills are wicked. The prosecutor recovered two small fish in his net to political and diplomatic necessities. There is no material to come into condemnation in this case. He is accused of abuse without ITT on an unidentified victim. It's a UFO.

They want us to believe that it is a usual hooligan standing out this Slovak story that has nothing to do with a sports arena. "

5:53 p.m. Submission of André Ribes: "30 months firm, warrant and ban the country for two years"

"Two legal qualifications accumulate as criminal association with the gang. The crowd, they are preparatory acts and it is a joint action once it is acting out.

This is the horde that rushes. Seen jumping on a person. When participating in the action, they know that the other tap, so there are co-action. It is about people from all over the country to fight. They blocked the course of the two sides to expel the English.

Whatever we not see the break a chair on someone, it is part of a group that fights and he attends. After charging, it remains for another hunt begins. There are vital prognosis committed to a victim.

This is 30 months firm, warrant and ban the country for two years "

5:52 p.m.

5:48 p.m. Judge: Did you?

Aleksei: "Yes, I know myself, I was there I never hit anyone or hurt I had a memory loss after receiving an object on the head I had nothing... in my hands to throw. "

The judge ". No criminal record How did you come to France."

Aleksei: "I arrived in France on June 10 by plane from Moscow to Marseilles I have a wife and two children I am responsible for the supporters club Lokomotiv Moscow for 7 years..."

The judge: "You were arrested in November 2010 in Prague, for disturbing public order"

Him: "It is false There was an inspection in the stadium.".

5:46 p.m. Watching the second video

The prosecutor ". The hunt continues Wherever people are isolated, they are struck gentleman is seen with a chair in hand, which then climbs the stairs of course Estiennes Orves.."

To wait 5:36 p.m.

To wait, find here our direct the day of June 11, marked by scenes of violence on the Old Port of Marseille.

5:28 p.m. Suspension hearing about this incident

The Court adjourned to allow defense lawyers devisionner video.

5:28 p.m. The prosecutor submits a second video that defense lawyers could not see

Lawyer: "I have not seen my client for even half an hour in the jails I have not had time to talk with him It's unfair..."

5:25 p.m. Judge: Why your ticket is not torn?

Aleksei: "This is a fault in the organization I had the ticket in the electronic detector but no one was there to snatch I stayed in the H sector lower..."

The judge ". People have been very seriously injured Even if you have not swung a chair against someone, the violence was committed in a group, this has an impact on you."

Aleksei: "I insisted that I did not hit anyone."

17:25 The judge stopped the video: You acknowledge you in these pictures?

Aleksei. "Yes there was a dispute with the English, I have not thrown anything I have clean hands It is the emotion that led me to remain in this group Everyone can... wrong. I did not intend to hit someone.

I have never been prosecuted in other countries. I went to the football game after that, I had a headache. "

5:23 p.m. combat Positioning

Prosecutor: You start the race at 6/7 km / hour on the course Estienne d'Orves, a race that will keep the stamina for the fight. See are combat positions with bent legs for the fight.

They take everything that can serve them for combat. Here we see the English support base that will be hit and is still in a coma.

There, an Englishman is isolated and the group falls on him to instead Thiars. It's hunting, they rely on a single person who had an English flag. They climb the stairs from the top of the course Estienne d'Orves.

Here we see the accused who is in the group and that will appear. Chairs fly.

5:16 p.m. Video support

The judge: "You were arrested June 15, 2016, identified from recovered videos on Youtube which shows you participate in clashes that day in your phone, nothing related events was found.. not torn ticket for the game. "

The prosecutor proposes to watch the videos filmed by participants in GoPro. He comments live.

5:11 p.m. Aleksei Erunov, shaved head, beefy chunky white shirt

The judge: "It is being criticized for having knowingly participated in a group in the preparation of violence against people with the aggravating circumstance that the facts were committed in meeting To have voluntarily committed violence in meeting n '. ITT not result in prejudice of an unidentified victim. "
Aleksei, on querying the judge: "I want to be judged today."

The hearing begins 5:07 p.m.

The defendants are within the box, very different physical.

5:06 p.m.

Karem Bensadia, 46 years old, aka K-Rhyme rapper King, is the lot of those appearing for violence involving the use or threat of a weapon without disabilities in sports event committed 11 June 2016. It was not planned the day before it is brought. It was to be called later. The prosecution has preferred to not wait.

5:01 p.m.

Nikolay Morozov, Aleksei Erunov and Sergei Gorbachev are charged with "participation in a group formed for the preparation of violence against persons or destruction or damage to property June 11, 2016" and "Violence in meeting disability-free at sporting event. "


Do you know how long it took to sentence "Pussy Riot" in Russia, "not-land-of-law"? They also had video evidence!

How many hearings were there for what was ultimately same two year sentence?

That is a very bad translation...

[ArguesWithStrangers]

The US doesn't need or want the US' stance on those things either, but unfortunately special interests have bought all our politicians and the media.

Apparently the special interests have bought out all the people who disagree with you also. My check must have been lost in the mail.

[Shalcker]

That is a very bad translation...

Well, don't you get an idea of what happens? Or at least timestamps?

I only have coverage of events with decent translation in Russian. There doesn't seem to be any outlet translating transcript in good English.

Why do you feel need to protect French corrupt justice? :/

[Slant]

Well, don't you get an idea of what happens? Or at least timestamps?

I only have coverage of events with decent translation in Russian. There doesn't seem to be any outlet translating transcript in good English.

Why do you feel need to protect French corrupt justice? :/

1. If you want to discuss legal stuff with me, I want to have the precise translation, not some Google crap.
2. When I hear you only getting coverage in Russian, I already know it's full of shit. If that is your only source, then good luck. I'm not inclined to argue with Russian propaganda much longer.

I'm not protecting French corrupt justice. I'm defending French justice. If those Russians think they can behave in the civilised world like a horde of rampagin barbarians that can destroy anything because they have no fucking regard for the property or health of other human beings, heck... why should we tolerate that? Send them packing to their glorious Russian motherland. Did you forget the pictures in the stadium for everyone to see? THAT is what Russians do, apparently. It's really, really hard not to take the biggest brush I can find and paint a picture of what Russians are like... but Russians make it so tempting these days. Manhunting people in stadiums, on the streets, doping like fuck, mass propaganda vs. the West after a time of actual peace and cooperation.

Just what the fuck is going on in Russia? Are they that keen on brutality? Is that the new way? Brutal stupidity?

[ArguesWithStrangers]

Getting along with Russia is easy. Just listen when we say something is important to us, and try to find ways to cooperate.

For example, we can easily cooperate in anti-terrorism efforts, and nuclear proliferation control. Hell, we can even cooperate on European security (because we do care about it for many reasons).

I've maintained for a long time that I'd much rather be friends with Russia than rivals. I kind of have a soft spot for Slavic culture after fighting next to the Poles in Afghanistan. You have to understand though, that friendship is a two-way street. You're not going to be able to keep conquering every ethnic Russian enclave that exists within neighboring countries' borders without annoying the rest of the world.

Regardless though, I wouldn't worry too much about it. So long as you don't do something colossally stupid and attack a NATO ally or interest, we're not going to blows over it. We might object, but it will end there. We aren't going to war with a nation as large as Russia over a minor regional conflict that really does not affect us.

Sorry, but "rampant cannibalism" is 100% pure fantasy. It NEVER was that bad.

I don't care what facts you bring to this topic. The thought of zombie Russia is far too entertaining to disbelieve.

[Deleted]

What if it is formed under Austrian leadership?

*looks at our politicians*
No, I don't think that would be a very good idea either.

[Deleted]

Is this a subtle hint that the economic realities of the sanctions are starting to sink in with Putin?

Nah, He doesn't want Russia to be seen as a superpower (yet). It would destroy their image of the eternal victim of the evil west

[GennGreymane]

Is this a subtle hint that the economic realities of the sanctions are starting to sink in with Putin?

Yes

also I remember being told by certain people on this forum that sanctions are useless.

[Karon]

Yes

also I remember being told by certain people on this forum that sanctions are useless.

Because they are. otherwise True Korea wouldn't flourish the way it does.

Check mate Genn.

[Slant]

Yes

also I remember being told by certain people on this forum that sanctions are useless.

Well, of course they are. As in all dictatorships, the dictator and his cronies are the last ones to suffer.

[Macaquerie]

1. If you want to discuss legal stuff with me, I want to have the precise translation, not some Google crap.
2. When I hear you only getting coverage in Russian, I already know it's full of shit. If that is your only source, then good luck. I'm not inclined to argue with Russian propaganda much longer.

I'm not protecting French corrupt justice. I'm defending French justice. If those Russians think they can behave in the civilised world like a horde of rampagin barbarians that can destroy anything because they have no fucking regard for the property or health of other human beings, heck... why should we tolerate that? Send them packing to their glorious Russian motherland. Did you forget the pictures in the stadium for everyone to see? THAT is what Russians do, apparently. It's really, really hard not to take the biggest brush I can find and paint a picture of what Russians are like... but Russians make it so tempting these days. Manhunting people in stadiums, on the streets, doping like fuck, mass propaganda vs. the West after a time of actual peace and cooperation.

Just what the fuck is going on in Russia? Are they that keen on brutality? Is that the new way? Brutal stupidity?

Well I think the general attitude coming out of Russia is actually quite similar what some in the West have expressed as well - the notion that society as a whole is becoming "pussified" and that people need to rediscover their masculinity and embrace the power of violence, etc. etc. Of course, being Russian they are utterly incapable of subtlety which is why you get absurdities like government officials cheering on hooligans and such.

I may be wrong, but I feel like Russia's actions are motivated purely by symbolism with no regard for geopolitical concerns. I seriously doubt Putin really cares all that much about grabbing more territory or protecting the rights of ethnic Russians abroad, he just wants to find opportunities to show RUSSIA STRONK and humiliate the West. And I'm sure that in his mind he's succeeding at it too...

[Shalcker]

1. If you want to discuss legal stuff with me, I want to have the precise translation, not some Google crap.

What exactly are you questioning there to need "precise translation"? The fact that defence lawyer wasn't given enough access to defendants before trial? Or trial speed?

France has law that allows them to do such speedy trials, and special case for "conspiring to group for purpose of causing violence" that was made into law in 2010. Law that is being abused in this particular case.

...obviously such trials make mockery on "Rule of Law" that is claimed to be "western ideal".

2. When I hear you only getting coverage in Russian, I already know it's full of shit. If that is your only source, then good luck. I'm not inclined to argue with Russian propaganda much longer.

I have given you French source, closest you can get to "true" source. If you want to remain ignorant because "it has no good English translation", that's your choice... but why are you trying to argue it is bullshit then while all facts are given to you?

I'm not protecting French corrupt justice. I'm defending French justice. If those Russians think they can behave in the civilised world like a horde of rampagin barbarians that can destroy anything because they have no fucking regard for the property or health of other human beings, heck... why should we tolerate that? Send them packing to their glorious Russian motherland. Did you forget the pictures in the stadium for everyone to see? THAT is what Russians do, apparently. It's really, really hard not to take the biggest brush I can find and paint a picture of what Russians are like... but Russians make it so tempting these days. Manhunting people in stadiums, on the streets, doping like fuck, mass propaganda vs. the West after a time of actual peace and cooperation.

So, you support sentencing scapegoats for violence they didn't cause themselves to "send a message"? Wow, such support to "rule of law". Wait, isn't that exactly what you accuse Russia of doing?

Just what the fuck is going on in Russia? Are they that keen on brutality? Is that the new way? Brutal stupidity?

What the fuck is going on with West? Where the hell is their "law above all"? Swept away in a tide of "whatever is convenient at the moment goes"?

[zmp]

What the fuck is going on with West? Where the hell is their "law above all"? Swept away in a tide of "whatever is convenient at the moment goes"?

Our noses here in the West on average are larger than pinocchio, yet we cant see it.

[Nfinitii]

He gets bashed for Putin complementing him, then gets bashed for Putin walking back his statement... Sounds about right.

I do think it's interesting that he walks back his statement around the same time he says he wants to work with the US...

[GennGreymane]

He gets bashed for Putin complementing him, then gets bashed for Putin walking back his statement... Sounds about right.

I do think it's interesting that he walks back his statement around the same time he says he wants to work with the US...

I had no idea Trump was the US

[Nfinitii]

I had no idea Trump was the US

What??

Trump is running for president and is hated by Obama, u don't compliment the enemy of someone u want to work with. Wouldn't surprise me if he is alrdy in talks with the US and they asked him to walk back his statement.

Like I said, the timing is interesting.