WTF with Blood of Sargeras staying BOP??

[judgementofantonidas]

Elvine reports that there seem to be no plans to switch Blood of Sargeras back from BOP to BOE.

WTH do they push me to reroll one of the crafting professions to a gathering one? But fine, whatever, let's say it can work because there are ways to get some amounts of Blood of Sargeras from world quests, etc. The real puzzler is this:

WTF am I supposed to do with Blood of Sargeras as a double gatherer?

Save it in bank and wait until Legion mats become obsolete so I can switch to a crafting profession and make some outdated gear for myself???

Blizzard, I am in your world, enjoying your scenery, gathering nodes. Is that not what you wanted? Why the hell are you punishing me for not having a crafting profession on the main? Why the hell can I not even mail my bloods to an alt???

It's just stupid.

so crafting will be fucked. not like I will participate in gathering with flying not available until at least mid expac.

[kurama]

If it'll be better to switch back to mining / blacksmith in Legion i'll do so. I really don't see the problem with this. People need to stop complaining about everything and just play the game.

And if i had some unobtainable recipes?

[Leviosuh]

So... what about tailors? Wonder if Cloth Scavenging will 'drop' BoS like the other gathering professions.

Lore wise, finding blood on scavenged cloth would not be ruled out.

[Chrno]

And if i had some unobtainable recipes?

1) Just accept that you sometimes need to make choices and that you can't always have everything.
2) Choose what's the best route for you in your position.

Do you want the best profs for raiding? for PvP? Do you want to make the most cash? Do you want to be 100% self sufficient or don't you mind putting in extra effort for 2 crafting prof's. Bringing choice to players actually makes things interesting again

[rda]

1) Just accept that you sometimes need to make choices and that you can't always have everything.
2) Choose what's the best route for you in your position.

Do you want the best profs for raiding? for PvP? Do you want to make the most cash? Do you want to be 100% self sufficient or don't you mind putting in extra effort for 2 crafting prof's. Bringing choice to players actually makes things interesting again

Ha-ha-ha.

More like (3) be ready to be screwed over at any time.

An easy illustration. So, right now the officially sanctioned way to play is to have one gathering profession and one crafting profession. Fine, great, superb. You switch over, because "you can't always have everything". Two years pass, we have a new expansion and it can easily be that the officially sanctioned way to play has changed. Ie, your crafting profession has to be appropriate for your class. Monks / hunters / shamans should have leatherworking, etc (and enchanting is for gnomes because it's cool that way). So your switch was not enough. You have to recite that mantra that "you can't always have everything" to yourself once again and to get busy switching again. What, don't want to switch again? You lazy bastard, you are just afraid of change / want everything on a silver platter / <ten more idiocies from those who didn't get it yet>. Some noob will explain to you that the new status quo makes sense. So, yeah, go switch over and keep switching every time they fart.

That's Blizzard for you.

What to do? I don't know, that depends on you. I unsubbed.

[Chrno]

Ha-ha-ha.

More like (3) be ready to be screwed over at any time.

An easy illustration. So, right now the officially sanctioned way to play is to have one gathering profession and one crafting profession. Fine, great, superb. You switch over, because "you can't always have everything". Two years pass, we have a new expansion and it can easily be that the officially sanctioned way to play has changed. Ie, your crafting profession has to be appropriate for your class. Monks / hunters / shamans should have leatherworking, etc (and enchanting is for gnomes because it's cool that way). So your switch was not enough. You have to recite that mantra that "you can't always have everything" to yourself once again and to get busy switching again. What, don't want to switch again? You lazy bastard, you are just afraid of change / want everything on a silver platter / <ten more idiocies from those who didn't get it yet>. Some noob will explain to you that the new status quo makes sense. So, yeah, go switch over and keep switching every time they fart.

That's Blizzard for you.

What to do? I don't know, that depends on you. I unsubbed.

are you new to the game or something? professions have almost changed drasticly every expansion. But never to the point were certain professions becomes totally useless. See this quote from the front page:

you heavily suggested to players how they should have their professions set up. I agree, for mains. For alts, it's not so simple
Sorry it came across that way. Double-crafting is absolutely a viable path that offers some advantages. (WatcherDev)

So there you have it, c/c is a viable path. HOWEVER .... if you think g/c is the way to go, feel free to change....

Remember when Leatherworking was a must in WotLK during high-end progress .... or Jewelcrafting that was amazing in Cataclysm.... i also remember Engineering being quiet powerfull in TBC ...

And to be clear: Yes i do think you're a lazy guy. People complain to much nowadays

[rda]

And to be clear: Yes i do think you're a lazy guy. People complain to much nowadays

I am so lazy my main is a double gatherer (and double-crafters with rare and unobtainable recipes are alts). Yeah, all I want is to sit in class halls or garrisons, too lazy to go into the world. Totally. I should shut up and switch to being a half-gatherer and half-crafter. And if next time there is some other switch I don't like, that's also on me. So lazy from my side.

No, dear. Have fun with your BS game.

[Noxina]

I am so lazy my main is a double gatherer (and double-crafters with rare and unobtainable recipes are alts). Yeah, all I want is to sit in class halls or garrisons, too lazy to go into the world. Totally.

Well that is what you chosed back when you decided to go double crafter, you won't lose shit about changing one gathering to a crafting proffesion in legion. Or you can keep both gathering and earn shit ton of gold from what ever you gather. So what if you will have some BoS in your bags that you can never use because you are stubborn?

[Nzete]

"Why would anyone be a gatherer if dual crafters had sufficent BoS?" Eventually the market prices for gathered materials would be high enough that people would cave and gather. On their gathering alts.

I'm actually rather concerned that the "based gathered materials" (herbs, ore, skins) that people are farming to get the BoS will glut the market and be almost worthless because the drop rate of BoS is so low relative to the "base items".

[rda]

Well that is what you chosed back when you decided to go double crafter, you won't lose shit about changing one gathering to a crafting proffesion in legion. Or you can keep both gathering and earn shit ton of gold from what ever you gather. So what if you will have some BoS in your bags that you can never use because you are stubborn?

Exactly. So what that I will have BoS gathered by my main sitting there doing nothing while my alts are starved for them. Nothing. Great design. /sarcasm

[Chrno]

Exactly. So what that I will have BoS gathered by my main sitting there doing nothing while my alts are starved for them. Nothing. Great design. /sarcasm

Approach things positive mate,
At least now you don't need to worry about it anymore

[Noxina]

Exactly. So what that I will have BoS gathered by my main sitting there doing nothing while my alts are starved for them. Nothing. Great design. /sarcasm

Yeah, it is a great design, you're just not using it properly. It is your own fault. And your alts wont be starved from them, you will gain them by doing World Quests, Dungeons, DE (if one of your proffessions are Enchanting) and I wouldn't be shocked if there will be more ways to obtain them, like a shoulder enchant. Now I got a shoulder enchant that gives me a chance to loot a meat bag when I kill something, and those bags award me with a lot of meat. So wouldn't be very surprised if there will be something similar to BoS later in the game.

[Saravat]

I'm a long-time player who has always greatly valued crafting. I enjoy helping my raid team out by providing crafted gear, and I enjoy making gold from crafted gear.

As one of the many testers that have been giving Blizz feedback about the Blood of Sargeras issue since Alpha, I have to say that I am seeing them make consistent, genuine attempts to address the possible issues related to making Blood of Sargeras BOP.

I don't think making it BOA is realistic; doing so does not support the active player/active crafter model that Blizz seems to be aiming for. I'm OK with that. I've played the game since release; I've been a crafter since release; I've successfully played the AH since release. I'll make this new system work for me, especially since the more recent solutions implemented in beta seem pretty viable.

There are still some discrepancies (though it's possible they'll be resolved with current options for obtaining Bloods). While it's reasonable to expect players to weather the changes that come with any expansion, it really isn't reasonable to ask players to give up rare and unobtainable recipes because they chose to be dual-crafters when, across many expansions, crafting perks resulted in measurable differences in raiding and PvP performance. The recipe issue needs to be addressed somehow.

Currently, the "natural" pairings for gathering + profession that Ion talked about don't really play out well. Herbalism results in MANY Bloods of Sargeras, yet the professions that "naturally" pair with herbalism - alchemy and inscription - have little (Inscription) or no (Alchemy) use for Bloods.

So I think the system is potentially OK, but it continues to need some significant tuning. Telling people who identify the problems in the system that they're "lazy" or just can't handle changes is pointless and small-minded. Thankfully the actual game developers don't operate from that mindset. They DO need thoughtful feedback, though, so I really hope that all of us in beta will continue to post our thoughts. I'm seeing real evidence that the devs are listening and responding. Let's take advantage of this while we can.

[Fenderxx]

I'm a long-time player who has always greatly valued crafting. I enjoy helping my raid team out by providing crafted gear, and I enjoy making gold from crafted gear.

As one of the many testers that have been giving Blizz feedback about the Blood of Sargeras issue since Alpha, I have to say that I am seeing them make consistent, genuine attempts to address the possible issues related to making Blood of Sargeras BOP.

I don't think making it BOA is realistic; doing so does not support the active player/active crafter model that Blizz seems to be aiming for. I'm OK with that. I've played the game since release; I've been a crafter since release; I've successfully played the AH since release. I'll make this new system work for me, especially since the more recent solutions implemented in beta seem pretty viable.

There are still some discrepancies (though it's possible they'll be resolved with current options for obtaining Bloods). While it's reasonable to expect players to weather the changes that come with any expansion, it really isn't reasonable to ask players to give up rare and unobtainable recipes because they chose to be dual-crafters when, across many expansions, crafting perks resulted in measurable differences in raiding and PvP performance. The recipe issue needs to be addressed somehow.

Currently, the "natural" pairings for gathering + profession that Ion talked about don't really play out well. Herbalism results in MANY Bloods of Sargeras, yet the professions that "naturally" pair with herbalism - alchemy and inscription - have little (Inscription) or no (Alchemy) use for Bloods.

So I think the system is potentially OK, but it continues to need some significant tuning. Telling people who identify the problems in the system that they're "lazy" or just can't handle changes is pointless and small-minded. Thankfully the actual game developers don't operate from that mindset. They DO need thoughtful feedback, though, so I really hope that all of us in beta will continue to post our thoughts. I'm seeing real evidence that the devs are listening and responding. Let's take advantage of this while we can.

Totally agree with this post. I do not see the issue. Double crafters can still get Bloods by other means. You may note get as many.. but then again there has to be a benefit to gathering right? If you are a double gatherer.. then why would you need crafting mats anyway. If you want to help guildies or friends get the mats.. help them grind for it. Everything seems totally viable to me, they just have different perks and gathering and crafting work well together.. but that is now it is suppose to be, in my opinion.

[Delaios]

That's completely false and illogical.

If you gather as much BOS you can craft just as much. Where do you get "half" from? If gatherer can craft 6 something from his profession and you can craft 3 from each profession it's still the same amount. Difference is that you would have way too much versatility and an advantage because of that.


If you have, for example, BS and LW and get 10 BoS and someone has BS and Mining and gets 10 BOS. Both of you can craft the exact same amount. You can craft just as many BS items as a gatherer or less BS and some LW stuff.

So no, you do NOT craft half as much.

It is when you compare 2 crafter/gatherer with a double gatherer and a double crafter. Keeping BoS BoP is enough to promote the use of the crafter/gatherer combo. There's no need to promote it even more by making gathering a major source.

[Deleted]

It is when you compare 2 crafter/gatherer with a double gatherer and a double crafter. Keeping BoS BoP is enough to promote the use of the crafter/gatherer combo. There's no need to promote it even more by making gathering a major source.

There is reason to make gathering equally good to crafting because it's a primary profession as well and should come with its own benefits and perks just as much as crafting and not for it to be a bastard child that's not wanted.

[Deleted]

I'm a long-time player who has always greatly valued crafting. I enjoy helping my raid team out by providing crafted gear, and I enjoy making gold from crafted gear.

As one of the many testers that have been giving Blizz feedback about the Blood of Sargeras issue since Alpha, I have to say that I am seeing them make consistent, genuine attempts to address the possible issues related to making Blood of Sargeras BOP.

I don't think making it BOA is realistic; doing so does not support the active player/active crafter model that Blizz seems to be aiming for. I'm OK with that. I've played the game since release; I've been a crafter since release; I've successfully played the AH since release. I'll make this new system work for me, especially since the more recent solutions implemented in beta seem pretty viable.

There are still some discrepancies (though it's possible they'll be resolved with current options for obtaining Bloods). While it's reasonable to expect players to weather the changes that come with any expansion, it really isn't reasonable to ask players to give up rare and unobtainable recipes because they chose to be dual-crafters when, across many expansions, crafting perks resulted in measurable differences in raiding and PvP performance. The recipe issue needs to be addressed somehow.

Currently, the "natural" pairings for gathering + profession that Ion talked about don't really play out well. Herbalism results in MANY Bloods of Sargeras, yet the professions that "naturally" pair with herbalism - alchemy and inscription - have little (Inscription) or no (Alchemy) use for Bloods.

So I think the system is potentially OK, but it continues to need some significant tuning. Telling people who identify the problems in the system that they're "lazy" or just can't handle changes is pointless and small-minded. Thankfully the actual game developers don't operate from that mindset. They DO need thoughtful feedback, though, so I really hope that all of us in beta will continue to post our thoughts. I'm seeing real evidence that the devs are listening and responding. Let's take advantage of this while we can.

Thank you for your insight and contribution to the development process. You have some points here.

The thing is - punishing double-crafters with a slower progression in creating items would be OK if we would still have our perks which boost our gameplay. If there still would be profession-specific enchants for special slots, for example. These perks are gone. Now, double crafters already have to deal with the hassle of either farming gold to buy materials in the AH or to have a gatherer alt to support the double-crafter character. This is already a disadvantage. When you play your doble-crafter, you cannot collect materials "on the sideway" while doing world quests or whatever. You have to set aside time for your gatherer alt (which has to be leveled as well to be more effective, especially in the case of skinners - even with mob scaling, because you are more effective with a max level talent than without it), or set aside time to farm gold.

While I don't have that much problems with such a situation with my tailor/enchanter main, because all materials that have to be farmed besides mob drops (leather, herbs etc.) can either be bought, or farmed with an alt. But I feel the difference with my druid (leatherworking / alchemy) in comparison with my rogue (alchemy / herbalism) or my hunter (leatherworking / skinning).

I would love to have a 3rd profession slot, with one of these slots to be a mandatory gathering profession. In LotRO, you learn one of several combination of 3 crafts, which are either 2 gathering professions + 1 crafting profession, or 1 gathering + 2 crafting professions. (Funny thing, cooking is a primary profession there, but what else to expect in a world with Hobbits? )

I will probably be not that much affected by BoP BoS because I usually only craft for my own characters and out guild, which is very small. But it seems that this will be just another expansion where crafting would not be my main gear progression path, and it's disappointing.

- - - Updated - - -

There is reason to make gathering equally good to crafting because it's a primary profession as well and should come with its own benefits and perks just as much as crafting and not for it to be a bastard child that's not wanted.

I would not mind if they would bring back the perks which gathering professions have had, and remove the BoP requirement on BoS instead.

Besides that, most of my characters have gathering professions. I only have 3 dedicated double-crafters (besides 2 tailor/enchanters, who both don't have clearly associated gathering skills and are even recommended by the system as a good match when you select professions for your characters). I only have 2 double-gatherer characters, mostly because I was undecided which crafting profession to take, I had every available profession at least on one character. I usally combine crafting with gathering, because it is most efficient in the use of my time, since I don't have to set up special farming sessions with a different character.

My double-crafters also don't come from the double-bonus which crafting profession have enjoyed in terms of extra benefits. I am not a high end raider, I can do without these perks. I have selected double-crafting because of profession specialisations - 3 different alchemists, 3 different tailors. I have only recently started to add additional crafters/gatherers, because I have a lot more alts now and professions are mandatory for me. I even try to max out fishing on my max level characters now.

As usually, Blizzard only reacts to the bad apples out there, and punished people like me. :/

[Deleted]

Not really. IIRC they only let you recall Legion patterns.

- - - Updated - - -

The current crafting items compete with heroic HFC items when fully upgraded so I really don't know what you're talking about. For example boots in HFC are awful for most specs so you end up trading a couple ilvls for better itemization.

You were not able to do more that 3 upgrades in WoD before 6.2 so they were still subpar to heroic raiding gear so maybe in 7.2+ you will be able to have them 6/6...

[purebalance]

You were not able to do more that 3 upgrades in WoD before 6.2 so they were still subpar to heroic raiding gear so maybe in 7.2+ you will be able to have them 6/6...

That's nice..... I'll ... just like you when you didn't make a point.

In 6.2 the crafted items were on par with or in some cases better than heroic drops. Your statement made 0 sense. They gave 2 upgrades for that purpose. Following what they did there, the crafted items will be decent in Legion.

[Deleted]

That's nice..... I'll ... just like you when you didn't make a point.

In 6.2 the crafted items were on par with or in some cases better than heroic drops. Your statement made 0 sense. They gave 2 upgrades for that purpose. Following what they did there, the crafted items will be decent in Legion.

Ok let me write it clear for you: Crafted items are 800 with 3 upg it will probably pe 845 ilvl just short of normal raiding gear which is around 850. By the time you will be able to make 6/6 upg let's say 890 probably the raids will hand out 900 ilvl gear or so meaning patch 7.3. That doesn't mean they will not be worth the investment (bad stat distribution/getting unlucky etc) but it will be a good gold sink. I am expecting Blood of Sargeras to be BOE by that time too so yeah people will most likely "buy" gear with gold by the end of the expac.

What is not worth it (and all the craze about BOP blood of Sargeras) is trying to get as much as possible when at LAUNCH you won't be able to go over 845 ilvl with crafted gear (shit gear) while sinking a lot of gold into it. I would rather do normal/hc raids to get better gear than go overboard with this. Hope it makes sense.