No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Connll]

You guys should come back when youve had a month to actually do world quests then regale us with how "immersive" it is to have to spend 65-75% of your time traveling to/from your objective and the remaining 35-25% actually accomplishing what you set out to do in the first place. That shit gets real old real fast. And it isnt optional.

World quests are primary means of obtaining AP, and your only effective means of obtaining CR that you need for literally everything in your class hall. But most importantly you need CR for artifact knowledge. That means that a year after Legion launches, you will still be out there doing those same goddamn world quests. It will be amusing to see how the ratio of pro/anti flight changes once the masses actually have access to Legion and realise that they have to keep doing that shit. Over and over.

Forever.

This is going to be a time bomb in the developer´s hands. I will watch it carefully.


Edit: Also, I have to confess that, when people said that the travel/quest ratio was 70/30, I thought it was hyperbole. Turn out, I was wrong.

Its a relief I didn´t pre-purchase Legion...

[wing5wong]

Not sure where you start timing 7 minutes to get to the first quest zone, but nicely exaggerated numbers.

I started here at 12:55, not counting the garrison, and initial travel and failed pulls. I just got off live mythic raid and was getting used to alpha

12.55 mount
14.27 quest (after 1m12s travel + 20s afk)
17.37 mount (after 3m.10s quest)
19.03 quest (after 1m26s travel)
25.35 moving on (after 6m35 quest)
26.40 quest (after 1m5s travel)
33.54 move (after 7m.14s quest+ disconnect)

Im sure you get the picture. Or do we need to try twist these numbers?

[kamuimac]

You guys should come back when youve had a month to actually do world quests then regale us with how "immersive" it is to have to spend 65-75% of your time traveling to/from your objective and the remaining 35-25% actually accomplishing what you set out to do in the first place. That shit gets real old real fast. And it isnt optional.

it will be even more hillarious then you think since with better gear those ratios will move from 70-30 towards 90-10

[Deleted]

it will be even more hillarious then you think since with better gear those ratios will move from 70-30 towards 90-10

So I will probably be playing my alts more than I thought, again, because of no-flying (worse gear = more time on quest content than travel content). Ah, good for my alts.

@.@

[Deleted]

Not sure where you start timing 7 minutes to get to the first quest zone, but nicely exaggerated numbers.

I started here at 12:55, not counting the garrison, and initial travel and failed pulls. I just got off live mythic raid and was getting used to alpha

Why do you keep repeating that you just got off mythic raid? Does that make your information any more valuable in your eyes?
Not trying to mock you, but the circumstance about you not liking flight and being a mythic raider draws a pretty good picture. So if i look at your "experience" how you see things needed or not, i come to the conclusion that your opinion won't help the vast majority of WoW-players. Since you seem to have more time on your hands to spend which makes minutes spend on loadingscreens (aka flight taxis) don't matter as much as for people who just don't have that much time... which is the vast majority of players still playing this game.

[Eapoe]

Why do you keep repeating that you just got off mythic raid? Does that make your information any more valuable in your eyes?
Not trying to mock you, but the circumstance about you not liking flight and being a mythic raider draws a pretty good picture. So if i look at your "experience" how you see things needed or not, i come to the conclusion that your opinion won't help the vast majority of WoW-players. Since you seem to have more time on your hands to spend which makes minutes spend on loadingscreens (aka flight taxis) don't matter as much as for people who just don't have that much time... which is the vast majority of players still playing this game.

I don't know, maybe he keeps saying it because he's going from being OP at the end of an xpac to being squishy at the beginning of one and people are trying to call him out for over pulling and dieing. Don't believe he's saying it to give him more value. That's just an educated guess though, harder to see what you're saying when I'm not trying to devalue someone based off something trivial.
As far as him having more time, just, what? Most mythic raiders dedicate 2 and a 1/2 hours or more just to that aspect, and unless there's some reason you don't have to work or go to school, that's even less time for the in game world. Which makes playtime that much more hectic as we try to get the same things done as everyone else while dedicating time to something else and still having real life issues.

[Bun-Bun]

As for the "pro flight later"... just lol, entitled kid who cant even afford to spend time to get something worthy in this game... I guess the gold value of flight has spoiled you hard. It's their game and we can influence them THAT much. We already did. Stop asking for more on this subject when the game will probably suffer from more serious stuff than something we won back.

Its a game. People really need to stop with this entitled BS.

- - - Updated - - -

No contradictions were made, but as seeing you have become nothing but a one trick pony in your debates I feel it's time to move on. I will just stop talking to you and leave with this point: almost everything you have stated has been proven wrong factually or proven as an outright lie trying to express opinion as fact. When you want to get back to discussing flight, please let me know and we can keep that going, but seeing as how you are now trying to troll (one of the worst so far), this has become pointless.

Not one person has refuted that flight has been fine in the past. BC, WotLK, MoP all were successful with flight.

And why should I discuss with anti flyers when they can't get their opinions straight? Do you like immersion or not? Is flight content/gameplay or is it not? You jump to either side of the fence when it suits your arguments the best.

The best anti flyers seem to be able to do is compare flight to gameplay mechanics from other games that arn't related even in the slightest.

[Eapoe]

Its a game. People really need to stop with this entitled BS.

- - - Updated - - -



Not one person has refuted that flight has been fine in the past. BC, WotLK, MoP all were successful with flight.

And why should I discuss with anti flyers when they can't get their opinions straight? Do you like immersion or not? Is flight content/gameplay or is it not? You jump to either side of the fence when it suits your arguments the best.

The best anti flyers seem to be able to do is compare flight to gameplay mechanics from other games that arn't related even in the slightest.

There's nothing to refute on those xpacs. As I've stated, all of those had content made for flight, where it was required to have to finish the world, outside of raids. WoD did not have that type of content which makes it not necessary and makes it a convenience, and so far Legion is being made the same way. Maybe Blizzard will introduce content that requires it again (unreachable platforms/raid entrances/cut off zones for alternative rep grinds), and maybe they won't. On the other side of the coin though, not one person has been able to refute that Blizzard is wrong in their stance of "flight skipping/trivializing content" and other people's posts about it being nothing but a convenience for the recent game. There is no contradiction anywhere as I've addressed previous xpacs and current. Also, going back to the contradiction you state I made, I feel at this point you need to reread the post as I stated that if someone wants to count flight as content, then you need to include everything as content (FP's, ground mount travel) as they are related, yet some people state that FP's allow the skipping of content as well.
I haven't jumped to any side of the fence, as I've clearly stated my views over and over, yet you keep trying to spin them. I've never said flight was immersion, let alone whether I like immersion or not. I pointed out flaws in people's arguements, and stated facts as to what flight is. If you think it's a contradiction to say I enjoy flight, and at the same time still enjoy the game when it's not included, the fallacy in your thinking is your problem, not mine.
The best pro fliers arguements have is pumping people to one side of the arguement or the other, and never once accepting the facts of what is happening or what flight is. Even when content is made for it (BC/Wrath/Vashj'ir zone specifically), when not used for specifically those things it is used to bypass the world content and used as a convenience to get from one place to another as fast as possible while skipping anything the world offers. That does not mean when I have it I won't use it or enjoy using it, it does mean that while doing those things I still see and admit the problems it can cause from a dev standpoint and aspects of the game being harmed from it.

[Bun-Bun]

There's nothing to refute on those xpacs. As I've stated, all of those had content made for flight, where it was required to have to finish the world, outside of raids. WoD did not have that type of content which makes it not necessary and makes it a convenience, and so far Legion is being made the same way. Maybe Blizzard will introduce content that requires it again (unreachable platforms/raid entrances/cut off zones for alternative rep grinds), and maybe they won't. On the other side of the coin though, not one person has been able to refute that Blizzard is wrong in their stance of "flight skipping/trivializing content" and other people's posts about it being nothing but a convenience for the recent game. There is no contradiction anywhere as I've addressed previous xpacs and current. Also, going back to the contradiction you state I made, I feel at this point you need to reread the post as I stated that if someone wants to count flight as content, then you need to include everything as content (FP's, ground mount travel) as they are related, yet some people state that FP's allow the skipping of content as well.
I haven't jumped to any side of the fence, as I've clearly stated my views over and over, yet you keep trying to spin them. I've never said flight was immersion, let alone whether I like immersion or not. I pointed out flaws in people's arguements, and stated facts as to what flight is. If you think it's a contradiction to say I enjoy flight, and at the same time still enjoy the game when it's not included, the fallacy in your thinking is your problem, not mine.
The best pro fliers arguements have is pumping people to one side of the arguement or the other, and never once accepting the facts of what is happening or what flight is. Even when content is made for it (BC/Wrath/Vashj'ir zone specifically), when not used for specifically those things it is used to bypass the world content and used as a convenience to get from one place to another as fast as possible while skipping anything the world offers. That does not mean when I have it I won't use it or enjoy using it, it does mean that while doing those things I still see and admit the problems it can cause from a dev standpoint and aspects of the game being harmed from it.

And what is the reason behind Blizzard not making content for flight anymore? And there in lies the entire point of this argument. It was fine before there is no reason they can't continue with it going forward.

Your facts are not facts; they are your opinions. Quit accusing others of stating opinion as fact when you are the one doing it.

I have never said flight is not convenient. I have said that is not all flight it is to those of us that want flight. That's the second time I have corrected that incorrect assertation. I will not repeat myself again.

If people want to skip content, that is their prerogative. BC, WotLK had lots of choice and again, were wildly successful. The content everyone talks about flight "trivializing" is trivial to begin with. Show me one instance that flight substantially makes world content easier at level cap. And lets not forget; BC, WotLK, MoP; all successful with flight and people being able to "skip/trivialize" content.

Lots of people have pointed out that Blizzards attempt to make meaningful content without flight failed. WoD by itself refutes the trivializing content argument. I've been playing Legion since alpha. I see nothing that shows me Blizzard learned from the failures of WoD, other than no more garrison. There is no reason in Legion to disallow flight. The content will already be trivialized shortly after release.

[Jaylock]

And what is the reason behind Blizzard not making content for flight anymore? And there in lies the entire point of this argument. It was fine before there is no reason they can't continue with it going forward.

Your facts are not facts; they are your opinions. Quit accusing others of stating opinion as fact when you are the one doing it.

I have never said flight is not convenient. I have said that is not all flight it is to those of us that want flight. That's the second time I have corrected that incorrect assertation. I will not repeat myself again.

If people want to skip content, that is their prerogative. BC, WotLK had lots of choice and again, were wildly successful. The content everyone talks about flight "trivializing" is trivial to begin with. Show me one instance that flight substantially makes world content easier at level cap.

Lots of people have pointed out that Blizzards attempt to make meaningful content without flight failed. WoD by itself refutes the trivializing content argument. I've been playing Legion since alpha. I see nothing that shows me Blizzard learned from the failures of WoD, other than no more garrison. There is no reason in Legion to disallow flight. The content will already be trivialized shortly after release.

Then don't play it. If you can't still get on board with the compromise that Blizzard has struck by activating the achievement for light mid expansion, then you just are an intolerable person wanting everything Blizzard is doing cater to YOU. More than half the player base does not like flight, does not want it, and wants it removed. So just be thankful that its still going to be in the game, and stop crying and whining that it wont be there at launch.

You are really ungrateful for such an amazing game.

[Eleccybubb]

Then don't play it. If you can't still get on board with the compromise that Blizzard has struck by activating the achievement for light mid expansion, then you just are an intolerable person wanting everything Blizzard is doing cater to YOU. More than half the player base does not like flight, does not want it, and wants it removed. So just be thankful that its still going to be in the game, and stop crying and whining that it wont be there at launch.

You are really ungrateful for such an amazing game.

Oh shut up Jaylock. You have no actual evidence that half the playerbase doesn't like flying and if you really think 5 million or more left because of it then you really are just being silly for the sake of it.

[wing5wong]

Why do you keep repeating that you just got off mythic raid? Does that make your information any more valuable in your eyes?
Not trying to mock you, but the circumstance about you not liking flight and being a mythic raider draws a pretty good picture. So if i look at your "experience" how you see things needed or not, i come to the conclusion that your opinion won't help the vast majority of WoW-players. Since you seem to have more time on your hands to spend which makes minutes spend on loadingscreens (aka flight taxis) don't matter as much as for people who just don't have that much time... which is the vast majority of players still playing this game.

Because i played like shit for the first pulls, pulled far too much to handle. It wasnt representative of a typical quest for me maybe?

[Bun-Bun]

More than half the player base does not like flight, does not want it, and wants it removed.

Proof please. Oh wait, there isn't any. But there is proof that the majority do want flight in the actions of Blizzard post announcement of no flight ever.

And I'm not playing it. I have already stated I am not buying Legion. I am fighting for a game that I love and want to continue to enjoy, not watch the developers drive it into the ground.

[Connll]

Then don't play it. If you can't still get on board with the compromise that Blizzard has struck by activating the achievement for light mid expansion, then you just are an intolerable person wanting everything Blizzard is doing cater to YOU. More than half the player base does not like flight, does not want it, and wants it removed. So just be thankful that its still going to be in the game, and stop crying and whining that it wont be there at launch.

You are really ungrateful for such an amazing game.

Ah, Jaylock.

Your... reputation... precedes you.

[Mafic]

If it was more than half in favor of no flying then they wouldn't have reverted the decision in less than a week of announcing no flying forever. Thanks for the free bump Jaylock!

[Jaylock]

Proof please. Oh wait, there isn't any. But there is proof that the majority do want flight in the actions of Blizzard post announcement of no flight ever.

And I'm not playing it. I have already stated I am not buying Legion. I am fighting for a game that I love and want to continue to enjoy, not watch the developers drive it into the ground.

Oh I don't know, how about all the polls that have been taken on the subject? How about how polarizing threads like this are and how they end up being 300+ pages of a few whiny assholes speaking in circles because they cant take a hint of how the game is progressing into the future. How about all the people who don't give a fuck either way, which I would suspect is the majority of the non-vocal players?

What you have in this thread is the illusion of it being a big deal, when really it isn't. Blizzard decided to keep flying in the game as a compromise, realizing that there are different people with different ideas on what is the best playstyle. It is a compromise that I happily accept. If you dont, then gtfo please.

[Mafic]

You guys should come back when youve had a month to actually do world quests then regale us with how "immersive" it is to have to spend 65-75% of your time traveling to/from your objective and the remaining 35-25% actually accomplishing what you set out to do in the first place. That shit gets real old real fast. And it isnt optional.

World quests are primary means of obtaining AP, and your only effective means of obtaining CR that you need for literally everything in your class hall. But most importantly you need CR for artifact knowledge. That means that a year after Legion launches, you will still be out there doing those same goddamn world quests. It will be amusing to see how the ratio of pro/anti flight changes once the masses actually have access to Legion and realise that they have to keep doing that shit. Over and over.

Forever.

This is well known to those of us in alpha. I feel sorry for those that have bought the compromise line from Blizz. Based on the sheer requirements of patch finder part one it is obvious.

[Bun-Bun]

Oh I don't know, how about all the polls that have been taken on the subject? How about how polarizing threads like this are and how they end up being 300+ pages of a few whiny assholes speaking in circles because they cant take a hint of how the game is progressing into the future. How about all the people who don't give a fuck either way, which I would suspect is the majority of the non-vocal players?

What you have in this thread is the illusion of it being a big deal, when really it isn't. Blizzard decided to keep flying in the game as a compromise, realizing that there are different people with different ideas on what is the best playstyle. It is a compromise that I happily accept. If you dont, then gtfo please.

What polls? You mean the poorly worded one featured on this site where only a small fraction of WoW players visit? Once Blizzard announced no flight ever they got the true feedback on the subject. Players were unsubbing in droves. Blizzard adjusted accordingly.

Being forced to play all the content in order to then be able to play the way you want... is not a compromise.

[Jaylock]

What polls? You mean the poorly worded one featured on this site where only a small fraction of WoW players visit? Once Blizzard announced no flight ever they got the true feedback on the subject. Players were unsubbing in droves. Blizzard adjusted accordingly.

Being forced to play all the content in order to then be able to play the way you want... is not a compromise.

LOLOLOLOL you actually think that there is a DIRECT correlation between the sub loss and no flying?? News flash, subs were already on a downward trajectory before WoD came out. Subs rising up to 10 million is what we call in statistics an "outlier" and happens all the time, especially when new shiny things are presented to the public, aka, new expansion launching. So saying "half" the playerbase left the game is disingenuous number 1, and number 2, you can't correlate sub loss to 1 specific feature changing.

Try again.

[Bun-Bun]

LOLOLOLOL you actually think that there is a DIRECT correlation between the sub loss and no flying?? News flash, subs were already on a downward trajectory before WoD came out. Subs rising up to 10 million is what we call in statistics an "outlier" and happens all the time, especially when new shiny things are presented to the public, aka, new expansion launching. So saying "half" the playerbase left the game is disingenuous number 1, and number 2, you can't correlate sub loss to 1 specific feature changing.

Try again.

So you speak statistics to me but base your argument on uncontrolled polls on the forum?

And I never said "half" the player based left the game due to flight. You're the one touting "half" the player base this "half" the playerbase that. I made no such claims to specific numbers. Blizzard is the only entity that knows these numbers, no one else. The proof is in their actions.

Announce no flight ever. Two weeks later do a complete 180 on that announcement and no longer published sub numbers. That wouldn't have happened without pressure to do so.