Legion Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[tristannarutofan]

Then it's a retcon. Blizzard is retconning things to make Illidan not a bad guy.

Oye. No. They retconning some and changing info we didnt have to give Illidan strong justifcation for doing evil things.

Its not hard to understand. Doing bad things for a good reason are still bad. That doesnt mean people are saying you shouldnt have done it. Like...its possible to say "it was wrong. I had to do it but it was STILL wrong. I wish i saw another way. I wish i didnt have to do it. And I'm going to try to make it so i dont ever have to do something like that again."

Morality isnt black and white like that. Its not "I'll find some excuse so its magically good"
as someone once said "Cool motive. Still murder"

People make the mistake of thinking justification is glorification.

HAVE to murder that child to save those other children? STill murder. still evil. Could you have done anything else? no. Still murder. You are just going to have to you know....live with the fact that you've done it.

I mean i guess i shoudlnt be suprised people have trouble with it. We like to put things in our little boxes. X is right, Y is wrong. with most people resigning themselves to "i'd never to X unless B happened". I guess its hard for people not hate themselves for doing something wrong while still thinking its wrong? people either want to absolve themselves of their actions, or carry the cross and pretend like they could have done something else. TO ease their mind?

I guess it comes from the idea that people want control? and its hard to comprehend no control. That to have to have done something horrible means that it was either ok and you can forgive yourself or that there had to have been something you could have done? But the idea that there is nothing else you could have done but it was still wrong is to hard to accept because it means you were helpless to the situation and that means being able to accept not being able to alter your own fate?

IDK maybe it is a hard thing for many people to grasp.

[Krazzorx]

Heh, they made dungeon achievements mythic only.

Seems right to me. ATM, basically the only people who did them anyways severely overgeared it. Might as well make it the highest tuned one.

[Phinx]

That little "Are you prep-" sidenote with Kur'talos made me chuckle.

[Wildmoon]

Oye. No. They retconning some and changing info we didnt have to give Illidan strong justifcation for doing evil things.

Its not hard to understand. Doing bad things for a good reason are still bad. That doesnt mean people are saying you shouldnt have done it. Like...its possible to say "it was wrong. I had to do it but it was STILL wrong. I wish i saw another way. I wish i didnt have to do it. And I'm going to try to make it so i dont ever have to do something like that again."

Morality isnt black and white like that. Its not "I'll find some excuse so its magically good"
as someone once said "Cool motive. Still murder"

People make the mistake of thinking justification is glorification.

HAVE to murder that child to save those other children? STill murder. still evil. Could you have done anything else? no. Still murder. You are just going to have to you know....live with the fact that you've done it.

I mean i guess i shoudlnt be suprised people have trouble with it. We like to put things in our little boxes. X is right, Y is wrong. with most people resigning themselves to "i'd never to X unless B happened". I guess its hard for people not hate themselves for doing something wrong while still thinking its wrong? people either want to absolve themselves of their actions, or carry the cross and pretend like they could have done something else. TO ease their mind?

I guess it comes from the idea that people want control? and its hard to comprehend no control. That to have to have done something horrible means that it was either ok and you can forgive yourself or that there had to have been something you could have done? But the idea that there is nothing else you could have done but it was still wrong is to hard to accept because it means you were helpless to the situation and that means being able to accept not being able to alter your own fate?

IDK maybe it is a hard thing for many people to grasp.

Err grey morality is a pretty simple concept. I don't think anyone would fail to graps it. That's not the point though. The point of my post is Blizzard is actively "changing" things to make Illidan not look like an asshole. I am not entirely against retcons but I still think they should use it as the last resort. I personally dont' agree with these uses of retcons and think they are unecessary.

The established lore was that a lot of Illidan's actions were done out of selfish reasons. I don't think Blizzard has to change those to "redeem" Illidan. He could still be someone who has fucked up a lot but still be needed to fight the legion. This whole thing is trying to change it into "Illidan was right all along" scenario. It seems to me like they are trying to please Illidan's fans rather than trying to create decent and consistent story.

[DemonHunter18]

Illidan is still a dick. he killed more Moon Guards in this questline then he did in WotA trilogy.

[FlemmMinis]

ok ty i will look into seems strange is a transmog cause some of them was allready transmogged

There's a toy that gives you totems on your back too afaik.

[Wildmoon]

Illidan is still a dick. he killed more Moon Guards in this questline then he did in WotA trilogy.

In WotA, he had no decent justification for his actions. Blizzard created one for him in the questline.

[DemonHunter18]

In WotA, he had no decent justification for his actions. Blizzard created one for him in the questline.

to be with Light yes. I mean, its better than Knaak's bullshit writing in WotA tbh

[Wildmoon]

to be with Light yes. I mean, its better than Knaak's bullshit writing in WotA tbh

What's done is done. Amber eye is Knaak's thing too. They don't have any problem going with that. It's only really better if you just want Illidan to be good no matter what.

[Valysar]

One week ago I wished we can control a boss, and kill players ourself... it's done

[Phinx]

In WotA, he had no decent justification for his actions. Blizzard created one for him in the questline.

To be fair Illidan had no decent justification for anything that happened during the all Burning Crusade. The Lore back then was all over the place.

[fooliuscaesar13]

quest spoilers

First part isn't that interesting, you just get sent to val'sharah to see a flashback of his birth (along with Malf). Apparently he had golden eyes and was "destined for a great future"

Who is he supposed to be...Raistlin Majere after his test at the Tower of High Sorcery?

[fooliuscaesar13]

You get to fight the Illidan raid fight AS Illidan.

The npcs do a countdown, have raid markers and ask who gets the warglaive

Go through all the phases, Johnny awesome is there. Placeholder cinematic at the end

This may seriously be one of the most awesome things Blizzard has done quest-wise.

[FlemmMinis]

Next time, wish for money

- - - Updated - - -



If he ends up stronger than the Titans, why not?

Everyone of us is stronger than the titans. Simply because we are alive. And they don't.

[Raetary]

damn that illidan questline is awesome.
especially the last quest where you get to be a raid boss lol.
the chat tho, "i think johnny is afk" "who pulled aggro?" "misidrect the tank!" "w0o0o0o0o0o0" "WORLD FIRST!"

[Deleted]

Good god, Xe'ra is a fangirl.

i think Xe'ra sounds sometimes like Galadriel (Cate Blanchet) at the start of the Lord of the Rings

[emilylorange]

welp I beat the game and finally got Invincible to drop so I let my account lapse again last night.

Since I'm now in withdrawal - Those of you who have done the beta dance before - is mid-next month looking feasible for a prepatch? I know that July 19th date comes from an account with suspicious history (it has a lot of deleted posts so it's likely the person just guesses a lot and deletes the wrong ones)..... but I mean. Withdrawal.

*eyes Overwatch up and down* Come here often?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

welp I beat the game and finally got Invincible to drop so I let my account lapse again last night.

Since I'm now in withdrawal - Those of you who have done the beta dance before - is mid-next month looking feasible for a prepatch? I know that July 19th date comes from an account with suspicious history (it has a lot of deleted posts so it's likely the person just guesses a lot and deletes the wrong ones)..... but I mean. Withdrawal.

*eyes Overwatch up and down* Come here often?

My answer is


Soon.

[emilylorange]

Soon.

Listen PUNK

[Enthralled]

Illidan is still a dick. he killed more Moon Guards in this questline then he did in WotA trilogy.

Yep, still a dick.
It's just that now he's a dick with a better motivation than "OMG TYRANDE".

There are a few people here and there who can look at him and say, "Yep, this guy is totes super nice and he wouldn't harm a fly!" (at least one vocal person on this forum) but by and large, I think Blizzard has made it clear that his goal is to fight the Legion and if you get in the way, you're going to be fodder for him.

I will say that charges of "retconning" are very much true IMO, but the process of retconning and softening Illidan's character has been ongoing for years. This is a good thing, because Richard Knaak's characterization of him in the WotA was really shallow and stupid. Not the character itself, the way he was written and developed. But then again, Knaak is a terrible writer on just about every level anyway.