[LEGION] Brewmaster Discussion

[redfella]

Was testing mythic Botanist and the tankdamage was indeed incredibly high. We switched to 3 tanks pretty soon and ran with Warrior, DH and Brewmaster. I tanked the blue/green one together with the Warrior and while tanking was stressful, I ended up living longer than the warrior. Most of the time I was one of the last players standing.

I must say I´m pretty surprised by this (espacially healing done: https:/ /w ww.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TCZqmGa3gxhLdWbH/#type=healing&boss=1886&wipes=1). From what i had experienced while leveling and doing dungeons I didn´t expect the Brewmaster being that decent on this boss. But nonetheless: I really don´t like the new Brewmaster and the playstyle going along with it.

Thanks for linking the log, interesting data and somewhat promising, even thought the playstyle is what it is.

[fringemoo]

Thanks for linking the log, interesting data and somewhat promising, even thought the playstyle is what it is.

I find it amusing that more than 40% of the healing is Celestial Fortune (which is a passive based on crit) and 35% of all damage is Keg Smash (and is more than twice the mount of damage any other ability does).

It's also a little misleading having Celestial Fortune to be attributed to you, although I understand why it was done this way.

[redfella]

I find it amusing that more than 40% of the healing is Celestial Fortune (which is a passive based on crit) and 35% of all damage is Keg Smash (and is more than twice the mount of damage any other ability does).

It's also a little misleading having Celestial Fortune to be attributed to you, although I understand why it was done this way.

Well, it is basicly coming from/enabled by you, just that it's activated by others.

[Valkaneer]

So was the latest Beta build a tool tip fix? According to the wording, you could say it works exactly like it does currently but now the tool tip is no longer misleading.

[Deleted]

Artifact Scenario is working now again, fyi. Could finish it this morning after the Server Reset

[gregstafelam]

Posted this on the beta forums:
"Having Black Ox Statue as a talent is not good for us since is one of the main tools for picking adds, and choosing between this and stunning them... is not very fun.

Suggestion: Why not replace the talent for Black Ox Statue with CLASH(yea the one we lost on MOP), since it's a stun row, it would make more sense, and is a different gameplay, also making the statue a default spell like it is on live

I really think it would make that talent row more interesting, and keep the statue that is one of the main tools we have"
What you guys think about it?

[Valkaneer]

Posted this on the beta forums:
"Having Black Ox Statue as a talent is not good for us since is one of the main tools for picking adds, and choosing between this and stunning them... is not very fun.

Suggestion: Why not replace the talent for Black Ox Statue with CLASH(yea the one we lost on MOP), since it's a stun row, it would make more sense, and is a different gameplay, also making the statue a default spell like it is on live

I really think it would make that talent row more interesting, and keep the statue that is one of the main tools we have"
What you guys think about it?

I like black ox statue. An AoE taunt that can pull threat if need be or something you can grab adds with without having to move.

[Deleted]

I think they are not going to do changes like that anymore, this late into beta.

[keqe]

I like black ox statue. An AoE taunt that can pull threat if need be or something you can grab adds with without having to move.

Yeah exactly, but his point was that the statue would be baseline again and the spot on the talent row was replaced with Clash.

However, we probably won't see clash again just because blizzard saw it as a "buggy" ability, which they probably won't bother to "fix". (In truth it worked fine if you know how it worked).

[Deleted]

I must say, I was considering playing a BM Monk in Legion after playing one on live.

After looking at the changes, I'm almost certainly not. Why in gods name are BM Monks being given such a massive prune? I for one enjoyed the way they played on live.

[Valkaneer]

I must say, I was considering playing a BM Monk in Legion after playing one on live.

After looking at the changes, I'm almost certainly not. Why in gods name are BM Monks being given such a massive prune? I for one enjoyed the way they played on live.

BrM I would say is still the most complicated tanks. I haven't played a Demon Hunter yet Butt most all the other tanks are either very spamy or rotation. I would say that Brewmasters require you to pay attention more than the others and once you get Obstinate Determination they feel a lot different.

[Leblue]

So was the latest Beta build a tool tip fix? According to the wording, you could say it works exactly like it does currently but now the tool tip is no longer misleading.

Not really since its not a "chance" of when you spawn an orb. You can actually track when it'll spawn even with Gift of the Mist (eventually expect to see lighter weight WAs or maybe even an add-on). The wording at least gets rid of the being low part of it.

I must say, I was considering playing a BM Monk in Legion after playing one on live.

After looking at the changes, I'm almost certainly not. Why in gods name are BM Monks being given such a massive prune? I for one enjoyed the way they played on live.

Recommend when Legion drops to give it roughly two levels or so before you write it off completely. It plays differently but it doesn't feel totally awful (at least for me and some others it doesn't). If you still don't like it then you might want to look into something els which sucks if you're really set on your Brewmaster =/.

[Deleted]

Brewmaster is already way more fun on a copied char, then it was on a lvl 100 premade! Gear does a lot to make it feel better, it seems.

[DisposableHero]

Light Brewing and Black Ox Brew certainly shift a lot of the emphasis to brews vs orbs. I'm just surprised no sort of cooldown has been added to obsintinate determination. That said, may not matter very much as time goes on since the heal relative to your health pool shrinks as you gear up.

Can we emphasize this for a second, especially in feedback, because there is a second factor you're not considering here. The heal not only shrinks relative to your health pool but the frequency of spawning orbs shrinks as your health pool grows relative to damage. This makes 23 artifact traits counter productive to self healing. There needs to be a factor of maximum health in the orb heal formula to counter active the inverse scaling or orb spawns with maximum health, or our self healing will become significantly less potent as we gear up and we'll be encouraged by the mechanics to avoid increases in maximum health once we are beyond an effective health level to avoid being spiked to death.

[keqe]

Isn't that just a scaling issue because the orbs scale from AP. If they don't catch up with health close enough they can just up the scaling %.

The fact that the more health we get the "more" we have to take damage doesn't seem that bad. It is all relative and if we ended up getting orb every "static amount of damage regardless of HP", the scaling would be exponential as we'd get more orbs that heal more. In legion other tank specs don't "double dip" like that either as far as I know.

[Valkaneer]

Can we emphasize this for a second, especially in feedback, because there is a second factor you're not considering here. The heal not only shrinks relative to your health pool but the frequency of spawning orbs shrinks as your health pool grows relative to damage. This makes 23 artifact traits counter productive to self healing. There needs to be a factor of maximum health in the orb heal formula to counter active the inverse scaling or orb spawns with maximum health, or our self healing will become significantly less potent as we gear up and we'll be encouraged by the mechanics to avoid increases in maximum health once we are beyond an effective health level to avoid being spiked to death.

Not exactly, this same idea has been brought up in the Warrior forums and normally what is sad is that boss damaged also scales. So 2 tiers from now the boss is going to hit you for a lot more damage than in the first. So hopefully you will lose Health just as fast in the last tier as in the first.

[Leblue]

Something also to be brought up is the amount of crit will also go up, so while yes baseline the heal for the % of your health goes down, the frequency of larger heals will increase with time. Volstatsz in the Monk discord was awesome enough to put together some charts showing the healing of Gift Orbs relative to HP and stats when I mentioned something about it because my look at it very much did not take into account frequency of the larger than base orbs.

https://images-1.discordapp.net/.eJw...C71xxsJs6I.png

Here's the full thing though: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3u...pGcG1yQUU/view

[redfella]

*tapatalk won't let me delete my post*

[trm90]

I'm really sorry to be a total knob, I haven't had a chance to hop into Discord or go back through all the pages, but what are people's thoughts on the lvl 100 talents? Elusive Dance gives the illusion having more control over mitigation. Fortifying Mind feels less impactful without access to the golden Fortification artifact talent, High Tolerance I have no idea how to math it out!

[Valkaneer]

I'm really sorry to be a total knob, I haven't had a chance to hop into Discord or go back through all the pages, but what are people's thoughts on the lvl 100 talents? Elusive Dance gives the illusion having more control over mitigation. Fortifying Mind feels less impactful without access to the golden Fortification artifact talent, High Tolerance I have no idea how to math it out!

Fort ot tolerance imo. Depending on the situation of course but I prefer fort cuz you can stack it with ISB for a huge stagger if need be.

On another note though I have no idea what I'm going to do for the next two months now that I have pretty much made a decision on what I will play in Legion. Maybe mythic Dungeons, but the chance for decent gear that are upgrades seems pretty poor. I've ran close to 10 on my pally and pretty much got nothing out of them, and that damn trink never drops.